False Hope Du Jour? : Flax Seed Oil

[Dice_Has_Hair]

Re: so...

But wait. If one were to purify the fatty acids and have them available in their free form, how effective would they be, as a topical application in preventing 5a reductase on the scalp. Wouldn't you need some sort of vehicle to make sure it gets into the hair follicle, since they are pretty large molecules.

Probably so..........perhaps emu oil or even dermovan would due. Emu oil might make more sense though. But of course, I believe revivogen has some sort of vehicle in it anyways, so the fatty acids(free form) plus the delivery system they have. Sounds good to me. I'd go for it.

 

[Bryan]

Re: so...

But wait. If one were to purify the fatty acids and have them available in their free form, how effective would they be, as a topical application in preventing 5a reductase on the scalp.

Reasonably effective, I certainly HOPE. There's that hamster flank-organ study, in which they were fairly darned effective. Topical GLA was also able to suppress sebum production when applied to the forehead of a human subject, in a small test that was part of a patent application by those same researchers.

Wouldn't you need some sort of vehicle to make sure it gets into the hair follicle, since they are pretty large molecules.

The molecular weight of linoleic acid is slightly over 280, so those common C-18 fatty acids aren't all THAT big. In the hamster study, the fatty acids were dissolved in ethanol. In that small human test, I _believe_ the GLA was applied all by itself to the forehead of the test subject.

Bryan

 

[Biostudent]

There's that hamster flank-organ study, in which they were fairly darned effective

That's right i actually remember that study when i purchased my Revivogen. I had purchased 3 months worth only, and i only used it for 1 month, so there is no way that i can say wheter it really does work or not, i stopped cus i had long hair at the time and it was very inconveient to me. I keep using the shampoo till this day. Really good.

Here's something i found,
http://hlcconline.com/scalp-scripts-dexpanthenol.shtml supposed to increase the scalp permeability, thereby ending the need for a specific vehicle, and in turn simplfying things a lot in the fatty acid topical.

Topical GLA was also able to suppress sebum production when applied to the forehead of a human subject, in a small test that was part of a patent application by those same researchers.

Is it safe to block the complete production of sebum? don't we need it in small amounts at least?

One last thing. I've been applying a topical fatty acid mixture (it's name in arabic loosely translates to 10 oils) that my aunt got for me the last time she was in the middle east (Syria), for about 3 months now. Can't see any real signs of regrowth or complete cesation of hair loss, but one thing i can assure is that it does get rid of any excess oil build up, and makes the scalp feel 200% better. I have about 3 years worth of this stuff so i'll keep applying till i turn blue in the face :freaked:. The pharmacist who makes it is supposedly a hair loss expert and told me to apply it twice a week, and castor oil once a week as well. I wish i was there to be able to talk to him, ask for the specific types of oils, free radical forms or otherwise, any results from previous patients...

I'll defentely keep you guys posted if i see any results

 

[Petchsky]

Got this wrapped round my head, but did you say fish oil/flax oil supplements help block alpha reductase type 1 and 2 ??? or only if they are in a free form, which i do not quite understand the meaning of free form. :?

 

[Dice_Has_Hair]

Got this wrapped round my head, but did you say fish oil/flax oil supplements help block alpha reductase type 1 and 2 ??? or only if they are in a free form, which i do not quite understand the meaning of free form. :?

According to what Bryan said, only the free form inhibits 5 alpha reductase. The free form exists in Revivogen, but to what amount of fatty acids are actually in revivogen, I have no clue. But yes, the fatty acids in revivogen are in their free form, which is good.

 

[Petchsky]

Got this wrapped round my head, but did you say fish oil/flax oil supplements help block alpha reductase type 1 and 2 ??? or only if they are in a free form, which i do not quite understand the meaning of free form. :?

According to what Bryan said, only the free form inhibits 5 alpha reductase. The free form exists in Revivogen, but to what amount of fatty acids are actually in revivogen, I have no clue. But yes, the fatty acids in revivogen are in their free form, which is good.

I see, thanks Dice.

Do you know if the supplements/capsules of omega 3 that you can buy in shops is classed as free form?

 

[Bryan]

Topical GLA was also able to suppress sebum production when applied to the forehead of a human subject, in a small test that was part of a patent application by those same researchers.

Is it safe to block the complete production of sebum? don't we need it in small amounts at least?

We apparently don't need it at all, at least according to Kligman. Read the following excerpt:

"Sebum Secretion and Sebaceous Lipids", Stewart et al, Dermatologic Clinics -- Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983 (BTW, the "Kligman" they are referring to is Dr. Albert M. Kligman, MD, PhD, one of the most famous names in the history of dermatology):

"Sebum is an oily substance that is secreted onto the skin surface from glands located in the dermis. Although a number of useful functions have been proposed for sebum, proof that sebum performs any of them is lacking. In furred mammals an essential function of sebum is to supply 7-dehydrocholesterol, which is converted to vitamin D by the action of sunlight and then ingested by the animal as it grooms itself. In man, however, the location of 7-dehydrocholesterol has been shown to be the epidermis rather than sebum. Sebum may act as a waterproofing agent for fur, but humans obviously have little need for this function. Kligman has specifically disproved the notions that sebum improves the barrier function of skin, that sebum helps to regulate the water content of the horny layer by forming emulsions with sweat, or that sebum on the skin surface is fungistatic or antibacterial.(21) Kligman regards the human sebaceous glands as 'living fossils' that lost their usefulness to our species as we lost our fur.(21)

(21) Kligman, A. M.: The uses of sebum? In Montagna, W., Ellis, R. A., and Silver, A. F. (eds.): Advances in the Biology of Skin. Volume 4. Oxford, Pergamon Press, 1963."

One last thing. I've been applying a topical fatty acid mixture (it's name in arabic loosely translates to 10 oils) that my aunt got for me the last time she was in the middle east (Syria), for about 3 months now. Can't see any real signs of regrowth or complete cesation of hair loss, but one thing i can assure is that it does get rid of any excess oil build up, and makes the scalp feel 200% better.

What's the rationale for using those oils? Are you absolutely SURE that it's reducing oil in your scalp? How do you suppose it can do that?

Bryan

 

[Dice_Has_Hair]

Got this wrapped round my head, but did you say fish oil/flax oil supplements help block alpha reductase type 1 and 2 ??? or only if they are in a free form, which i do not quite understand the meaning of free form. :?

According to what Bryan said, only the free form inhibits 5 alpha reductase. The free form exists in Revivogen, but to what amount of fatty acids are actually in revivogen, I have no clue. But yes, the fatty acids in revivogen are in their free form, which is good.

I see, thanks Dice.

Do you know if the supplements/capsules of omega 3 that you can buy in shops is classed as free form?

No problem Petchsky. To tell you the truth, I have no idea of how to get "free form" fatty acids. If I did, I would by the sh*t and put it on my head,LOL!! :lol: I know you can get fatty acids, but you have to remember that only 1 or 2% of that fatty acid is "free form". Basically, the way I interpret it, the "free form" is basically the "extract" or the "real good sh*t" of the entire fatty acid.
I tell ya what, I am gonna do a search for the free form fatty acids and see what I come up with. If you find anything out, let me know. I wonder if Bryan has found out anything of this fatty acid deal? I haven't asked him.

 

[Dice_Has_Hair]

" Kligman regards the human sebaceous glands as 'living fossils' that lost their usefulness to our species as we lost our fur?"

I thought that sebaceous glands were important for keeping our skin moist? We would probably be leather if we didn't have oil in our skin. Now I can see proper balance though, between dry skin and oil skin, ya need a balance.

 

[Bryan]

Let's go over this some more, to avoid confusion:

Fatty acids are hydrocarbon molecules. They frequently consist of long chains of carbon atoms strung-out in a row, with hydrogen atoms stuck-out on the side (how much hydrogen there is determines whether the fatty acid is "saturated" or "unsaturated"). There is usually a carboxylic acid component attached at one end of the chain (although azelaic acid has an acid group attached at BOTH ends). Because hydrocarbons like that are generally fat-soluble and there's an acid group at one end, the compound is referred to as a "fatty acid". Certain such fatty acids are PROFOUNDLY important in the metabolism of living things. Three of them are essential for human nutrition. Without them, we would die.

Plant and animal food sources contain fatty acids, but the great majority of them are not in their "free" form. They usually exist attached to glycerol (also known as "glycerin"). Glycerol has three "spaces" in its structure which are available to be attached to fatty acids. In other words, it's possible for a single molecule of glycerol to have THREE separate fatty acids attached to it. When that happens, the resulting "meta-molecule" (I just coined that word! ) is called a "triglyceride". You've probably heard of triglycerides in discussions of human heart disease: fats and lipids are transported in the bloodstream mostly in the form of triglycerides.

So the bottom-line is that fats and lipids in plants and animals mostly exist in the form of COMPLEXES of glycerol with various fatty acids. But for our special purpose (inhibiting 5a-reductase), triglycerides don't work. You MUST use the isolated fatty acids in their "free" form. And only a chemical company is able to produce those, for the most part...

Questions?

Bryan