Fgf9 and wounding

[peacemaker]

According to Cotsarelis' team at the University of Pennsylvania, the reason that wounding does not regenerate enough hair follicles is that we do not have enough Fgf9 released when we are wounded. They also identified the responsible "gd T Cells" in our skin that produce this growth factor.

"The Penn team suggests that, given the differences in skin development and regeneration in response to wounding, treatments intended to compensate for the lack of Fgf9 may be most effective if timed with a wounding response."

They also found out that the reason our wounds do not produce as much hair as mice is that we do not have enough Fgf9, which is crucial for the Wnt pathway.

"When Fgf9 was reduced, there was a decrease in wound-induced hair follicle growth. Conversely, when Fgf9 was increased, there was a two- to three-fold increase in the number of new hair follicles, equal to the amount seen in the mice expressing Wnt."

So I believe that derma rolling = wounding is a working method, but it is not as fast as we expect due to our Fgf9 limitations (and other limitations that we do not know of). Hence, a possible experiment could include the Fgf9 growth factor in addition to derma rolling. I do not know where this leaves Minoxidil, but I would think that it's best to leave it out of the experiment and add it later if necessary.

 

[Chromeo]

Old news I'm afraid.

 

[peacemaker]

I know it's old news, but it's new in the sense that I haven't heard from anyone who tried integrating Fgf9 into his treatment and failed. This does not mean that it will surely work, but what else is out there? Fgf9 might be the booster we need that turns the vellus hairs that we get from derma rolling into terminal hairs.

 

[mj9]

Its been discussed a billion times. Its very expensive and apparently there are studies which link it to cancer.
We need someone who is very rich and willing to risk getting cancer!

 

[hellouser]

Its been discussed a billion times. Its very expensive and apparently there are studies which link it to cancer.
We need someone who is very rich and willing to risk getting cancer!

Do you have a source which shows FGF-9 being linked to causing cancer?

 

[Sparky4444]

They also identified the responsible "gd T Cells" in our skin that produce this growth factor.

this is core of the issue, then, isn't it?? Why would fgf9 cause cancer if we're supposed to produce it naturally?? Seem's like this is coming down to being an immune system thing again

 

[peacemaker]

I cannot say that 100%, but this article released by the University of Pennsylvania's medical research facility (http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2013/06/cotsarelis/) sort of claims that.

I think that the growth factors are a huge part of the puzzle though as:
1- We know that stem cells that produce hair exist.
2- We know that fibrosis caused by PGD2 and its derivatives halt hair growth (We know bald people have a lot of that)
3- We also know that Wnt signaling is necessary for stem cells to start producing new hair. We know that we have limited amount of growth factors responsible for the signaling (Fgf9)

Hence, I believe that if there isn't any other feedback loop in the skin that we do not know of that messes the process up (Like Fgf9 blockers etc, Idk I am no dermatologist), growth factors + wounding should solve the hair loss issue.
I'm with Sparx on this one as I would think taking Fgf9 minimally wouldn't do any harm, but we don't know how much is too much or how little would be adequate.

 

[swingline747]

Its been discussed a billion times. Its very expensive and apparently there are studies which link it to cancer.
We need someone who is very rich and willing to risk getting cancer!

Ill take the cancer if you guys wanna donate!

 

[Sparky4444]

Ill take the cancer if you guys wanna donate!
View attachment 23474

:doh: ...you're kidding, right??

At the end of the day, our genes are dictating our male pattern baldness issues...the follicles are pre-disposed to this, plain and simple...I think hair transplant and scarless FUE is really the only hope for those of us with immediate challenges of keeping our hair...

 

[peacemaker]

Ill take the cancer if you guys wanna donate!

Says the person who is afraid of Chinese derma rollers!

 

[swingline747]

Says the person who is afraid of Chinese derma rollers!

HA!
Listen I dont want some big festering wound on my head that WONT kill me!

 

[peacemaker]

:doh: ...you're kidding, right??

At the end of the day, our genes are dictating our male pattern baldness issues...the follicles are pre-disposed to this, plain and simple...I think hair transplant and scarless FUE is really the only hope for those of us with immediate challenges of keeping our hair...

Not really. There are countless chronic sicknesses that can be treated with lifelong medications. You just have to regularly take a medication or a growth booster etc of some sort. Please post in another thread if you think FUE is the only option

 

[Sparky4444]

Not really. There are countless chronic sicknesses that can be treated with lifelong medications. You just have to regularly take a medication or a growth booster etc of some sort. Please post in another thread if you think FUE is the only option

whatever...hairloss isn't a sickness, get that through your thick head...it is a condition...male pattern baldness is all about genetic predisposition -- done and done...

,,,and don't effin tell me what and where to post

 

[karankaran]

Telemores are involved in both lengthening of life span and play a role in cancer development too. Different environment, different results.

Hence, FGF9 has to be targeted specifically. But i feel it is important too coz just like when a specific kind of hydrogel was used for third degree burns to grow new skin, similarly i guess an agent is needed for new follicles. Also, without such an agent, scarring will result and nothing more. That is why deep chemical peels like phenol peel are not used on areas other than face (No neck or anywhere else). scarring is a result but if that can be prevented and new skin with follicles in it can be grown, that will be great. I guess that is the holy grail of skin regenerative medicine.

 

[Sparky4444]

...if anyone thinks that BBQ guy didn't apply some kind of ointment or topical to aid in the healing your effin nuts....that would have hurt like hell and with something like that, a Doctor would have applied something...guaranteed..

 

[CursedMen]

...if anyone thinks that BBQ guy didn't apply some kind of ointment or topical to aid in the healing your effin nuts....that would have hurt like hell and with something like that, a Doctor would have applied something...guaranteed..

Damn it Sparx. Now someone is going to try to find out what type of ointment he used. Expect a new thread in a few days.

 

[DesperateOne]

Damn it Sparx. Now someone is going to try to find out what type of ointment he used. Expect a new thread in a few days.

The original BBQ article said he didn't apply anything. We might need to reproduce his experiment. Get yourself a BBQ griller sparks and then try it no ointment, the. Do it again deep scaring and put minoxidil.

 

[Sparky4444]

The original BBQ article said he didn't apply anything. We might need to reproduce his experiment. Get yourself a BBQ griller sparks and then try it no ointment, the. Do it again deep scaring and put minoxidil.

Where is this article??

 

[karankaran]

What i came to know is Hair follicle growth occurs in wounding but in presence of a factor like fgf9, the growth increases multiple folds. So BBQ guy could have had new hair growth without any growth factor but the amount of new follicles he had could have been tripled i guess if in the presence of FGF9.

But i wonder if the process is that of deep wounding, why would not it lead to scar formation and permanently screw hair growth. I am just so confused.

 

[DesperateOne]

Where is this article??

Somewhere burried in the derma roller thread. If I remember correctly it was from 150-250, somewhere around there when Rambo, squeegee and I were the only posters here.