Fibrosis & Calcification Reversal: Rob's Hypotheses & Theories

[Headdy]

Anyone doing this or thinking about doing it, be careful.
It can cause you scalp wrinkles. (It's probable the skin folds in such angle that the hair is grouped together and looks thinker?)
Watch this (from the link down below):

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t10871p870-detumescence-therapy-dedicated-volunteers-wanted

 

[Benne9]

That could be one of the reasons why Minoxidil works...
Wasn't that developed in order to lower blood pressure?

And topical estrogen also drop bp. ^^

 

[Saulo]

Scalp hardening may not be the result of only calcification. excess sebum causes scalp keratinization disorder. Sulfur can eliminate this keratinization disorder.
but baldness does not reverse unless excessive sebum returns to normal. The sebum controls by androgen receptor. I managed to stop the sebum with a natural androgen receptor suppressor. My hairline is absolutely protected and the hair is stronger

How did you manage to do it? what is you regimen?

 

[Arrade]

Anyone doing this or thinking about doing it, be careful.
It can cause you scalp wrinkles. (It's probable the skin folds in such angle that the hair is grouped together and looks thinker?)
Watch this (from the link down below):
View attachment 110812
View attachment 110813
View attachment 110814


http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t10871p870-detumescence-therapy-dedicated-volunteers-wanted

How is that even possibuh... those are 3 very straight lines and the massage is a random style of pinches and presses on the scalp, not in an order like those lines

 

[barfacan]

brainfog from topical coconut oil? What about ingesting it?


How do we break down the calcification externally without damaging our brains lol... Could there be some kind of resonance frequency which preferentially targets and breaks down that particular 'diseased' tissue? or is it indistinguishable from bone at some point? how effective is internal 'decalcification' ?

So essentially we need to cut down on the inflammation, lower the fat oxidation in the scalp, and reverse calcification/fibrosis in the scalp. All of aforementioned are interrelated and possibly triggered by circulating androgens? I think it's established that castration definitely STOPS further hairloss (but doesnt nessessarily regrow), so the androgens trigger an inflammatory process which is possibly mediated by dozens of other factors and leads to a progressive uninhabitable enviornment for hair follicles.

Very interesting theory..... it also co-incides with the recent revelation that alopecia is correlated with heart disease (calcium involvement) Is the final conclusion that progressive miniaturization is ultimately caused by a cutting off of the nutrient supply to the follicle cells? or perhaps an imbalance in favor of inflammation vs anti-inflammation? There's just so many questions... It seems

 

[Benne9]

@Arrade which dermaroller is best in your opinion and what is the best regimen for someone with a hairline slightly worse and more miniaturized than the pics posted few posts above? Would you recommend emu oil topically along with trinov? I’m thinking of starting both.

 

[Benne9]

If calcifcation is the issue I wouldn't do anything but take vitamins to decalcify (K,D, magnesium) and fix the whole system naturally.
I use a 1.5 mm dermastap for like $14, I am considering the derminator 2.

Emu oil may be good. I think trinov could work but s eqoul and dgla are both anti androgens; thus it may lead to a compromised hormone situation. If decalcification actually works internally you shouldn't need any topical. Safe bet emu oil

I’ve been taking d3 25000IU once a week my levels are stable. I’m trying to regrow and get to the hairline of the fella in the pictures few posts up. Like, I got the hairline he got but my hair is miniaturized and white-ish so I’m trying to wake them up. If u run my hand over my scalp with eyes closed u will swear it’s a full head of hair but then you look at it and it’s kinda empty lol. So, emu oil + derminator 2 + diet + trinov if proven not to have long term androgenic sides? About vitamin K dunno I heard u shouldn’t be taking synthetic forms of it. What about massages?

 

[alibaba92]

I’ve been taking d3 25000IU once a week my levels are stable. I’m trying to regrow and get to the hairline of the fella in the pictures few posts up. Like, I got the hairline he got but my hair is miniaturized and white-ish so I’m trying to wake them up. If u run my hand over my scalp with eyes closed u will swear it’s a full head of hair but then you look at it and it’s kinda empty lol. So, emu oil + derminator 2 + diet + trinov if proven not to have long term androgenic sides? About vitamin K dunno I heard u shouldn’t be taking synthetic forms of it. What about massages?

I read somewhere, they recommend 10 000 IU daily ? so your dose seems low to have any effect.

anyway, to what extent do you think D3 help your hair ? or totally useless ?

 

[Benne9]

I read somewhere, they recommend 10 000 IU daily ? so your dose seems low to have any effect.

anyway, to what extent do you think D3 help your hair ? or totally useless ?

Useless for the hair but definitely useful for overall energy. I remember when I was severely deficient I couldn’t go from point a to b. I don’t think 10,000IU daily is healthy. 25,000 / week will definitely spike your levels up from 0 to high normal.

 

[Saulo]

In the morning and in the evening I ate the milk thistle seed in a sweet spoon. In one week the sebum decreased. These seeds contain luteolin and quercetin. They reduce PGD2. Slymarin also suppresses the expression of the androgen receptor and reduces sebum. NF KB inhibits inflammations such as .
It also decreases NADPH.
I tried dozens of things.
milk thistle seeds indispensable for me in tackling baldness.

slybin prevents calcification. seeds more effective , than capsules. milk thistle doesn't work as a capsule. should be taken as seeds. The capsules contain only slymarin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11532861/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10586080/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21928237/

Thanks for answering.
It's the first time I hear about it.
I did a quick check on the internet and found milk thistle has potential "estrogenic" effects...
Question: did you have any sides? How long have you been on it?
I ask because I had sides from my old regimen - oral saw palmetto and topical solution containing finasteride and flutamide.
I am still not fully recovered - although better than before - and it's been a few years I quit that...

 

[stachu]

You've been a member for a few weeks pal, I don't think it would be too difficult to make a few posts before selling your e-book, which it certainly looks like you're trying to do, Rob.

You nailed it!

 

[Armando Jose]

More androgen binding was observed in bald male scalp than normal scalp.so I think it should focus more on sebum.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2909628/?i=2&from=/8757755/related

The full&free article
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82295732.pdf

 

[jjamerson]

Is this supposed to be new information? We’ve known for at least 50 years that inflamation can cause calcification, and calcification of blood vessels can cause fibrosis. That’s one of the symptoms of heart disease and there’s a link between bald men and heart disease. Look it up. Plenty of studies.

We all likely have an autoimmune response causing this inflammation in our blood vessels. The mystery is what’s causing our immune system to respond this way, just like arthritis. There’s no cure for arthritis either, hmmm.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42164898

 

[Andy Liu]

Thanks for sharing the article, this is really useful and we could discuss and learn more by communication here. Hair loss is really a big problem for us.

 

[Dogma]

Hi everyone,

I don't know how many people of you are familiar with Rob's theories. (As he is also selling an ebook with a regimen suggestion - to which I will get in due time - I will not post a link to his website ("PHH") or blog here. We had enough trouble with monetization allegations here in the last couple of days).

I'll try to summarize his hypothesis: Rob argues - very convincingly, I even checked out his sources and read many of them - that DHT is a downstream effect of another inflammation process going on in Androgenetic Alopecia scalp. DHT has been known as a response of the body in the inflammation process. Depending on the kind of environment and reason for the inflammation, DHT summons TGF-B1 which is known to cause calcification and fibrosis. Usually, DHT summons TGF-B1 in processes caused by and/or around muscles. This has been shown in a bunch of other chronic inflammatory diseases involving muscles which - surprise! - also lead to fibrosis. As we all know, Androgenetic Alopecia leads to fibrosis as well. Additionally, DHT has been known as a fat killer and in Androgenetic Alopecia scalp, the subcutaneous fat is being depleted, which further derives follicles of nutrients on top of the problems with fibrosis and calcification.
His hypothesis elegantly explains the "DHT paradox": DHT leads to hair growth in most areas of the body (beard, chest, for some even the back) whereas in the scalp of men prone to Androgenetic Alopecia, it leads to the destruction of hair (due to fibrosis, calcification, and loss of subcutaneous fat). This happens because in the presence of chronic "tension" stress (like can be induced by or around muscles), DHT leads to TGF-B1 (see above).

This was just a very very short summary of his approach. I highly recommend reading his paper which connects so many dots in hairloss research: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411

In his e-book (which Rob is selling, full disclosure) he argues that there are two main things which people should do to fight hairloss, by reducing fibrosis and calcification:

• intensive head massages
• nutritional changes

I read his blog posts on nutrition and they were, unfortunately, not remotely as well researched or argued as the ones on the physiological changes in the scalp because of DHT/TGF-B1 and their relation with mechanical/tension stress. I even found some of his nutrition advice to be wrong so I will not take his ideas on nutrition into consideration (except maybe the value of vitamin K2).

However, as I said, his work on the physiological changes in the scalp is amazing and combines so many unsolved questions in hair loss research into an elegant hypothesis they are hard to dismiss. As I stated before, I highly recommend people getting famiiliar with his hypotheses.

Now, why I opened this thread and wrote this lengthy introduction: In his e-book, Rob's main point are certain strong head massages. These can according to him alleviate the permanent mechanical stress on/by the involved muscles, relax them, and additionally break up fibrosis and calcilfication. If done as vigorously as he advises, they supposedly even lead to accute inflammation leading to remodeling of tissue and growth factor release - almost the same mechanism as dermarolling.
He has 7 success stories on his website claiming to be from massages over the course of 6 to 12 months. However, 7 success stories (for whom we don't know if they really only massaged and didn't use minoxidil or finasteride alongside) is too little for me to by his e-book. Also, one of the success cases only had regrowth after taking care of his vitamin D deficiency (so likely not really Androgenetic Alopecia) and another case (Rob himself) had such little hairloss he was almost a fullhead.
That is why I wanted to ask the community...

1. what do you think about his theories?
2. does anyone have any experience (mayb even results) with this method except for the alleged success stories on the website where he sells his e-book?

I actually already asked him in a comment under one of his articles whether he has any statistics on how many people exactly were successful by following his approach, but no reply from his side so far.

Personally I am full of doubt that vigorous massages can really do something but I added them to my daily regimen. If dermarolling already has zero results for me, adding another completely ineffective treatment can't make my hair worse
I still think his ideas warrant some discussion.

tl;dr: Yes, it's another massage thread. But it's based on a very well researched and convincing theory of how Androgenetic Alopecia happens, answering a lot of questions which were not answered in one consistent theory before.

dermarolling showed no results for you? Have you tried switching to a dermapen? Let me tell you the two are not comparable electric pens Penetrate much more efficiently.

 

[Dogma]

Wont pay for any new info on it, but I'm on board.

I definitely think fibrosis and calcification are the enemy to regrowth. Seems we need to crack that nut if we are to have a hope in hell of recovering what was once.

I take d3 and k2 now, which are good to take anyway if you suffer from hairloss, as it helps to pick up one's shitty mood. I cant be arsed with the manual massage so I use some old handheld electronic massager (this guy https://www.brookstone.com/pd/max-2-dual-node-percussion-massager/324640p.html), which on the most powerful setting really knocks the sh*t out of my scalp. It's obviously nothing like the massages I've seen people suggest one does, but I can hear the occasional crack/pop suggesting it's breaking some of the calcification.

In terms of results, it helps with the inflammation for a while but that's all I can add - that said I honestly only use a few mins each day, and often forget to.

Pgd2 leads to calcification and tightness of the scalp.If pgd2 can be reduced, calcification is reduced.but it will not stop the inflammation of the scalp without decreasing the sebum.Rosemary andpeppermint oil reduce the scalp tension.May be good against calcification

If inflammation of the scalp is that serious supplementing Tumeric mixed with a little bit of black pepper ( which increases its bio availability tenfold) should help anyone with hair loss tremendously. The anti-inflammatory properties of turmeric (cumerin) I literally being tested in acute spinal cord injury patients, for those that don’t know when you suffer damage to the spinal cord your body responds with mass inflammation, in the US they do offer anti-inflammatory drugs in the initial onset of injury a.k.a. acute stage, but the benefits are contentious. However it seems that there has been some positive results with turmeric it really is that powerful of an anti-inflammatory.

 

[Jaka]

Wont pay for any new info on it, but I'm on board.

I definitely think fibrosis and calcification are the enemy to regrowth. Seems we need to crack that nut if we are to have a hope in hell of recovering what was once.

I take d3 and k2 now, which are good to take anyway if you suffer from hairloss, as it helps to pick up one's shitty mood. I cant be arsed with the manual massage so I use some old handheld electronic massager (this guy https://www.brookstone.com/pd/max-2-dual-node-percussion-massager/324640p.html), which on the most powerful setting really knocks the sh*t out of my scalp. It's obviously nothing like the massages I've seen people suggest one does, but I can hear the occasional crack/pop suggesting it's breaking some of the calcification.

In terms of results, it helps with the inflammation for a while but that's all I can add - that said I honestly only use a few mins each day, and often forget to.

D3, K2, and black pepper together (one pill) as a supplement should be best (also less costly than taking separately).

 

[benjt2]

dermarolling showed no results for you? Have you tried switching to a dermapen? Let me tell you the two are not comparable electric pens Penetrate much more efficiently.

Unfortunately no. Been dermarolling with an electric dermapen weekly for 3.5 months now without any results whatsoever. Been on minoxidil already for a long time, so yeah, weekly electric dermaneedling at 1.75 mm + minoxidil for 3.5 months didn't do anything for me so far. Will still continue to do it, but reduce it to once every two weeks b/c of work.

That's also why I started this thread. As electric needling + minoxidil doesn't seem to work for me I wanted to see if any people who tried it had success with these specific massages.

 

[Dogma]

Unfortunately no. Been dermarolling with an electric dermapen weekly for 3.5 months now without any results whatsoever. Been on minoxidil already for a long time, so yeah, weekly electric dermaneedling at 1.75 mm + minoxidil for 3.5 months didn't do anything for me so far. Will still continue to do it, but reduce it to once every two weeks b/c of work.

That's also why I started this thread. As electric needling + minoxidil doesn't seem to work for me I wanted to see if any people who tried it had success with these specific massages.

Well you seem like you know what the routine is, what exactly does “intensive scalp massage” entail? Like aggressively massaging your hair for 20 minutes?

 

[Arrade]

If inflammation of the scalp is that serious supplementing Tumeric mixed with a little bit of black pepper ( which increases its bio availability tenfold) should help anyone with hair loss tremendously. The anti-inflammatory properties of turmeric (cumerin) I literally being tested in acute spinal cord injury patients, for those that don’t know when you suffer damage to the spinal cord your body responds with mass inflammation, in the US they do offer anti-inflammatory drugs in the initial onset of injury a.k.a. acute stage, but the benefits are contentious. However it seems that there has been some positive results with turmeric it really is that powerful of an anti-inflammatory.

Curcumin (what I believe is the concentrated active part of turmeric) is great for lowering inflammation. It lowers estrogen too though, I would keep that in mind (so it wont

Unfortunately no. Been dermarolling with an electric dermapen weekly for 3.5 months now without any results whatsoever. Been on minoxidil already for a long time, so yeah, weekly electric dermaneedling at 1.75 mm + minoxidil for 3.5 months didn't do anything for me so far. Will still continue to do it, but reduce it to once every two weeks b/c of work.

That's also why I started this thread. As electric needling + minoxidil doesn't seem to work for me I wanted to see if any people who tried it had success with these specific massages.

Drop the minoxidil