Finasteride has destroyed my life

[Joe-1991]

Hi guys,

I'm formerly JOE-91 from here, I deleted my account when I put hair loss behind me. Unfortunately I am now dealing with horrific side effects from my bouts of finasteride use. Anyway, I have only just noticed that there are guys using this forum with problems from the drug, and the vibe feels less depressing than over on the other forum.

So is there anyone who took a long time to recover on here? I have hit 7 months and there is only worsening. It's a damn shame the UK is so sh*t for doctors, I am in London and I have just given up on doctors.

 

[FSHGLD]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

sh*t man what happened? I'm starting to have some doubts about my finasteride usage too..Orgasms don't really feel like orgasms anymore, and my semen looks like 50% water 50% milk...

 

[Ende]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Both of you should do some blood work. Check LH, FSH, testosterone, estrogen, prolactin and SHBG. Finasteride may cause secondary hypogonadism, Joe. The hormone values are expected to be in range, so get a copy of the numbers and ranges, and ask for more opinions. We have one guy on this forum which is currently treated by a doctor for secondary hypogonadism, induced by finasteride. The best part is that he has evidence (baseline values), unlike me. They're still working on solving the case, and I expect to hear more from him as time goes on. He quit finasteride a long time ago, and he didn't return to normal. I'm still using, and have almost recovered with the support of various drugs.

FSHGLD, your semen should be white. Transparency indicates DHT deficiency (high aromatase activity). Elevated prolactin level decreases libido, arousal and sensation during orgasm. Prolactin is upregulated by estrogen, and estrogen is countered by DHT.

 

[Joe-1991]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

What happened?

I quit a very short run of FINCAR after I was getting side effects and an egyptian doctor warned me about finasteride 7 months ago, I crashed horribly and now my body is all over the place. Terrible sleeping problems, shrunken penis, ED, unhealthy looking stool - I suffer from quite a few problems that make me feel sh*t.

I am in the UK, so getting any of the tests you mentioned will be a very difficult task. I am at university so I am going to look for a doctor when I get some time off.

Where are you based Enden?

 

[Joe-1991]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

sh*t man what happened? I'm starting to have some doubts about my finasteride usage too..Orgasms don't really feel like orgasms anymore, and my semen looks like 50% water 50% milk...

I would get off it now. My first ever side effects were 'just' watery semen and some ball ache. After going on and off the drug trying to avoid side effects my last go at it fucked me over.

One thing I will say though is that at the moment my sperm looks totally fine. I have had watery semen when I was totally fine back before I touched finasteride, so semen isn;t a great indicator.

 

[Ende]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Sounds like the classic result guys at propeciahelp describe as "post finasteride syndrome". I believe it's secondary hypogonadism. When you get severe side effects from finasteride, your testosterone/estrogen ratio is altered. Your estrogen level has increased, and your testosterone level has decreased. When you quit finasteride, your testosterone level decreases further, because it converts to DHT. Your testicles have shrunk because of altered T/E ratio, and it takes some time to recover the size and production capacity. I think that you'll develop secondary hypogonadism, if this burst of DHT isn't enough to counter the excessive estrogen. Whatever DHT your body manages to produce afterwards, isn't enough to turn the table. Prolactin and SHBG are also involved, and may complicate things a bit. That is why a blood test is important. I'm from Norway.

 

[Ende]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

I'm still working on the T/E ratio. The estrogen level is currently too low, and causes some trouble. Propecia is only available on request by the doctor. It's not approved for marketing yet.

 

[Prop]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Hi guys,

I'm formerly JOE-91 from here,

So is there anyone who took a long time to recover on here? I have hit 7 months and there is only worsening. It's a damn shame the UK is so sh*t for doctors, I am in London and I have just given up on doctors.

hi,

2 yrs and not recovered
no mental but sexual sides

not worst as i read in other forums but enough to make me damn the day when propecia affect my life

i have doubts about the shrinkage, i'm not so sure abt that, but for sure often i have a strange phenomenon at beginning and ending of an erection,
a hourglass penis pattern.

Anyone here have this side?

sorry if my english isn't accurate

 

[rint]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Hi guys,

I'm formerly JOE-91 from here, I deleted my account when I put hair loss behind me. Unfortunately I am now dealing with horrific side effects from my bouts of finasteride use. Anyway, I have only just noticed that there are guys using this forum with problems from the drug, and the vibe feels less depressing than over on the other forum.

So is there anyone who took a long time to recover on here? I have hit 7 months and there is only worsening. It's a damn shame the UK is so sh*t for doctors, I am in London and I have just given up on doctors.

HEY JOE! I always looked forward to seeing your posts on the 'other' forum because we seemed to be in same boat/same age... Similar to you, I don't like to post on the other forum because it's extremely depressing.

I'm 5.5 months off. 20 years old (19 when I started). (I took finasteride for 6 months)

When I first quit I had absolutely NO libido (didn't happen till after I quit)... I experienced panic attacks, extreme anxiety 24-7/paranoia/depression (especially after physical exercise/ EXTREME headaches all day for about a month/abdominal/digestion problems/major vision problems (tense flickering)/extreme mood swings/very emotional/no concentration and no ability to cope with stress and the so called "depersonalization"

Just within the last month my sex drive has come 98% back FULL FORCE and it feels great. I feel more aggressive (in a good way) and I am building muscle again/have motivation to work out. I feel a bit more 'pumped up'.

The only side effects that remain are a low-medium grade mixture of depression/anxiety/brain fog that comes and goes. I am able to cope and live a pretty normal life now though sometimes I just cry and I am still pretty emotional... sometimes it gets a little rough.

Depression and anxiety do not run in my family and I have never experienced this before. I have nothing to be sad about.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing about your experience...How are you coming along?

 

[Ende]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

So, have you done any blood work? Severe side effects from finasteride, anxiety, depression and mental fatigue are all linked to low testosterone level.

 

[Joe-1991]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

I went to a GP about a month after I quit and he said that all my levels were fine, he said my testosterone was high and that he expected it to be as I was balding young. I am probably in a worse state now as nocturnal/ morning erections don't happen - period. So I could do with new blood tests, I just have to pluck up the courage to get it all done. I have flaccid shrinkage quite severely now so I am embarrassed to see a doctor.

I can't say that I am doing very well at all, approaching 8 months off now and things have only gotten worse. My sleep is fluctuating and I have a feeling it may get better soon but otherwise, more severe stuff has set in like shrinkage and total ED at times - when I first quit and my body was a mess I did get some morning erections and have a decent libido. This is not the case now.

 

[Joe-1991]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

I wish I never deleted my user account on here man, I could of looked back on my thread when I was a healthy guy, experiencing sides on the drug for the first time. It would of been interesting.

It has shocked me that there are a number of guys on here also with serious side effects - this drug needs to be banned!

 

[mpbsux20]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

I wish I never deleted my user account on here man, I could of looked back on my thread when I was a healthy guy, experiencing sides on the drug for the first time. It would of been interesting.

It has shocked me that there are a number of guys on here also with serious side effects - this drug needs to be banned!

You have to outweigh the pros and cons before taking a drug like this.Going in with paranoid thoughts like that you would get side effects,can only make matters worse.

Seriously get a consultation with an endocrinologist and find out if it is just your mind playing games with you or your hormonal levels are really messed up.

You said that your testosterone levels were fine a month coming off the drug so I have a feeling that some other issue could be the problem here.

You might find something useful here after all:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=55063&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=190

 

[Ende]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Seriously get a consultation with an endocrinologist and find out if it is just your mind playing games with you or your hormonal levels are really messed up.

They can all be in range, and still cause a lot of trouble. How the levels are in relation to each other, is just as important as that they're in range. Incompetent doctors will just take a look at the numbers, see that all are in range, and close the case.

 

[Mew]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

They can all be in range, and still cause a lot of trouble. How the levels are in relation to each other, is just as important as that they're in range. Incompetent doctors will just take a look at the numbers, see that all are in range, and close the case.

That's likely part of the issue, but of course vast majority did not get bloodwork done for every single hormone or ratio in their body (which is impossible anyway) prior to Finasteride use, while on, or since quitting the drug to compare against -- making it impossible to know the true baseline.

Indeed, as has been noted by Dr. Crisler, it would seem the issue goes far beyond simply "increasing Testosterone". He notes many ex-finasteride users present with normal testosterone levels and all the symptoms of hypogonadism (ie, possible androgen resistance):


[youtube:2o1i40ke]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEGCTMtlgoc[/youtube:2o1i40ke]


Second, Neuroendocrinologists like Dr. Alan Jacobs has posted the following, wondering if the issue of persistent Finasteride side effects/acquired hypogonadism/possible partial androgen resistance may be due to epigenetic (molecular) changes in those men who are susceptible, based on their androgen receptor CAG repeats.

Another Piece of the Post-Finasteride Hypogonadism Puzzle?
http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-jacob ... uzzle.html

The persistence of male sexual side effects (hypogonadism) after discontinuation of finasteride is a serious problem for a significant subset of men who use the drug.

I had previously written about whether the propensity of finasteride to cause lasting hypogonadism could be due to the development of partial androgen resistance and whether this relates to the number of CAG repeats in exon 1 of their androgen receptor genes.

Recently, a patient of mine brought to my attention a research paper from Csoka, et al.(J Sex Med 2008;5:227-233) titled "Persistent Sexual Dysfunction after Discontinuation of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors". They added 3 well-characterized case reports to the half dozen or so that were already in the literature and cited studies probing underlying mechanisms for the problem.

Their fourth proposed mechanism relates to a growing field that has caught my attention in a big way, the field of epigenetics. They note that antidepressants can cause complex changes in the expression of genes. They cite animal research that has linked SSRI treatment during youth to permanantly decreased sexual behavior that persits into adulthood and that has explored underlying mechanisms for this including brain epigenetic changes at the molecular level.

Epigenetics is a field that concerns the complex web of proteins that surround our DNA. These proteins include histones, which help package and unpackage our genes to either turn on or turn off their function. "Acetylation" and "methylation" are chemical reactions that alter the histone's function, which in turn alters the expression of our genes. Within this emerging field may lie a new mechanism by which a drug can cause persistent changes in gene expression that can influence sexual behavior.

This brings up the idea that there is a common epigenetic mechanism that may apply generally to medications that cause persistent sexual dysfunction. It may be the case with finasteride that a common epigenetic effect interacts with a less common variant in the androgen receptor gene CAG repeat profile to cause its syndrome of crippling persistent post-finasteride hypogonadism.

Human research in this area has yet to be done, but holds promise for new therapies to treat this troublesome side effect of finasteride and other widely used medications.

IF acquired androgen resistance due to epigenetic changes from Finasteride use were proven to be the case, then "balancing hormones" will likely make no difference, because the root cause of issue lies at the molecular level. The treatment would thus lie in reversing these molecular changes (if this is in fact what has occured), providing they can figure out what changed.

Of course, none of this has been proven/disproven (yet), but based on all the evidence and experiences thus far from doctors treating this problem, it seems like an area worth investigating further.

 

[Ende]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Well, I certainly hope that it's not that complicated. Just tuning hormone levels is very difficult, and yes, baseline values to compare with, would be like a map in the f*****g jungle.

 

[Joe-1991]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Thanks for the link MPBsux, I did freak out about side effects when I was on it, and now I know that it was for good reason. Although I used to be able to go on and off the drug very easily and recover just fine when I was first taking it. It was a last run that must have messed me up.

I will try with doctors here again, but when your this young they really aren't convinced. At least I have access to tests through labs directly, maybe I can get some idea of where I'm at through that.

 

[Mens Rea]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

Mew, good post

I've already read all of that, and its interesting

Im HOPING (and i do believe so) that in my case, 12 months usage wouldn't form any such androgen resistance, molecular change or indeed (not sure if your post mentions this or not) spinal damage, inside that relatively short period

Certainly for the latter ive read it would require prolonged use, probably 4-5years+. This is what scares me for half this forum, most people have NO idea what they are dealing with or the complexity of their bodies when starting to play with your hormones etc (which are all needed for distinct purposes). Its no surprise that when you surpress one hormone that you start getting all sorts of crazy reactions. Its should be EXPECTED. The people who dont get any sides, or very little, are far from out of the woods. Just because their body perhaps masks these problems, doesn't mean sh*t in the long run.....admittedly its still practically a blank canvas in respect to knowing what the future holds for most of these people, but after reading all ive read (ive read ALOT) im bloody glad i got the wakeup call ive did. People don't seem to realise that the likes of androgen resistence and spinal damage can happen over years, decades even. Its a scarey prospect.

Going back to my point, im hopeful for my purposes im just dealing with some hormonal tweaks. This would seem likely. In my case im hopeful (and somewhat convinced) that, so long as i take the right course of action, the body can fix itself. End of the day, if i was able to do something one way, its likely i can do it the other. The right course of action however is critical.


Finally, IM CONVINCED, that in, say, 100 years, when people look back at the fact that people used to this this simplistic DHT-inhibiting (and dangerous) drug to half hairloss, they will be horrified at our niavity. Im sure of this.

 

[Prop]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

, that in, say, 100 years, when people look back at the fact that people used to this this simplistic DHT-inhibiting (and dangerous) drug to half hairloss, they will be horrified at our niavity. Im sure of this.

i'm sure too.

however i learnt to mistrust every new drug even if doctors recommend it.
after long time tests maybe

 

[mpbsux20]

Re: Is there anyone here who took months/ years to recover?

[youtube:33ib6tq1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEGCTMtlgoc[/youtube:33ib6tq1]

Says a 50 something guy who is a NW0....