finasteride investigated by Swedish doctors?

[Luther007]

I was reading the wikipedia article on finasteride and noticed this terrifying line at the bottom of the section on side effects:

Finasteride is under investigation by the Swedish Medical Products Agency for possibly causing irreversible sexual side effects.

It has a citation but the link is in Swedish (dated 2006). I've been using finasteride (fincar cut into quarters) for years now, so I found this to be rather alarming. Anyone know what this [was] all about?

 

[Vigaku]

There's also a video someone uploaded on youtube stating the permament sexual side effects it has had on him. If anyone wants it I can probably find it.

Not that I give a sh1t about the effects however. Why some insist on having a sex drive when they ultimately look like ***, baffles me. I'd rather have no sex drive with lost hair than a sex drive with lost hair. That also means I'd rather have hair and no sex drive. For me that'll create a lot less suffering, but I guess I'm not in the majority here.

 

[CCS]

Maybe sperm count stays down. I saw studies. Not conclusive. Maybe a 1/3 drop.

They gave a bunch of guys finasteride or placebo. Then counted sperm at the end and found the finasteride group was 1/3 lower than the placebo group after 6 months or something. But they did not say what their levels were before administration of the pills.

 

[CCS]

I've heard people say they had huge side effects. I ask them how they know it was the finasteride. They say they know because the sides came about the same time they started the finasteride. Well, they stopped, and still have the side effects. OK, so doesn't that discredit the timing link? They don't think so; they think it just means the side effects are permenant. One person said finasteride made him fart like crazy, and he is still farting to this day. Then they go make a video to tell everyone else not to take it.

 

[Vigaku]

I don't think Merck officially stated that finasteride had any permanent sexual side effects. However like that guy said I guess others are investigating still. Still, not that I care.

 

[Quantum Cat]

the guys at propeciaHelp who talk about permanent side effects are misguided and attempting to scare other people off the drug due to their own bitterness.

as for wikipedia, anybody or anything can write stuff on there - don't trust a word.

 

[H/B]

I was reading the wikipedia article on finasteride and noticed this terrifying line at the bottom of the section on side effects:

Finasteride is under investigation by the Swedish Medical Products Agency for possibly causing irreversible sexual side effects.

It has a citation but the link is in Swedish (dated 2006). I've been using finasteride (fincar cut into quarters) for years now, so I found this to be rather alarming. Anyone know what this [was] all about?

Wikipedia? Dude, any finasteride natzi from finastersides.com can put an article on wikipedia.

Wickipedia is not a reliable source of information.

 

[ajnar]

I stopped to go to French discussion forums because of that. People there were taking finasteride for a few days and started to complain about dramatic side effects, body type changes... They went off but kept on spreading loads of lies. Some (most) of them, unfortunately very active, are thinking that masturbation is linked to hair loss, that salt or cheese are the root causes of hair loss, that balding people are victims of a conspiracy, that finasteride causes a irreversible and fast hair loss, that dutasteride will turn you into a woman... No matter what kind of scientific proofs you can show, they will stay on their positions, and will insult you. Those f****ing c**** are taking herbal crap, don't see any regrowth, and get nasty.
:dunno:

same thing on polish forums, ppl take finasteride for 1 month then stop and complain that it does not work and spread fudd like "finasteride is death" etc.

 

[ChrisJ]

Heres the translation from google:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... N&ie=UTF-8

 

[Flavio]

«the guys at propeciaHelp who talk about permanent side effects are misguided and attempting to scare other people off the drug due to their own bitterness.[...]»

Absolutely. Those guys at Propeciahelp are pathetic and most of them haven't even tried finasteride. And if you try to post a different opinion, you're immediately banned from the forum.

 

[Billy-The-Kid]

The only side effects associated with Finasteride are more hair & higher level of testosterone in your body. Sexual side effects are psychological I.M.O.

When finasteride blocks the conversion of test to DHT, you get more test in your system. As a result your should get more and better "hard ons", not less.

People who take a placebo have sexual issues, it's all in their head.

 

[luke 21:18]

I'm on Finn, but my aunt whose a pharm. tell me the loss of libido is permenant, but I haven't had a problem for over a year now, but who knows in the future?

 

[Bryan]

When finasteride blocks the conversion of test to DHT, you get more test in your system.

Your implication is that there's more testosterone around just because less of it is being metabolized into DHT, but I think you're wrong. I think there's a true upregulation of testosterone synthesis when you take finasteride.

 

[Petchsky]

The only side effects associated with Finasteride are more hair & higher level of testosterone in your body. Sexual side effects are psychological I.M.O.

People who take a placebo have sexual issues, it's all in their head.

Even Merck would disagree with you on that. There are sexual side effects to propecia, if you stay on it they will normally go away, but for some the only option is to quit.

This is from Merck's own study admitting as much

"A small number of men had sexual side effects, with each occurring in less than 2% of men. These include less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection, and a decrease in the amount of semen. These side effects went away in men who stopped taking PROPECIA because of them. In addition, these side effects decreased to 0.3% of men or less by the fifth year of treatment."

 

[hairrific]

When finasteride blocks the conversion of test to DHT, you get more test in your system.

Your implication is that there's more testosterone around just because less of it is being metabolized into DHT, but I think you're wrong. I think there's a true upregulation of testosterone synthesis when you take finasteride.

Silly me, I am probably not understanding or is this a possible contradiction Bryan or am I not understanding? Sorry, may I burden you to elaborate?

By the way, I am not trying to trip you up, I love all of your post and your insight no matter what. Glad your on board.

Quote found at: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=45131&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=bodyhair&start=7

Bryan wrote: While finasteride decreases DHT, it increases your testosterone level (22% on scalp using 5mg finasteride), see study: "The importance of dual 5a-reductase inhibition in the treatment of male pattern hair loss: Results of a randomized placebo-controlled study of dutasteride versus finasteride." J Am Acad Dermatol 2006;55: 1024-23.
It is logical to assume it will not only increase your scalp testo level but also your overall level, hence promoting muscle growth.[/quote]

 

[Drummeur]

Allopregnenolone (synthesized from 5AR) may prevent neurodegeneration
Kofi kofi at anon.un
Wed Aug 11 19:26:31 EST 2004

The latest research in mice raises a disturbing question about the
safety of FDA approved 5AR inhibitors like finasteride
(Proscar/Propecia) and especially dutasteride (Avodart) when it comes to
managing long-term risk for neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's.
This is because these drugs not only reduce levels of DHT but also wound
allopregnanolone production in the process.

To summarize the new findings on allopregnanolone (see attached below),
Niemann-Pick type C is a rare lysosomal storage disorder/childhood
neurodegenerative disease in which brain cells accumulate fat and die
due in part to severely disrupted neurosteroidogenesis. A mutant gene
for lysosomal acid sphingomyelinase disturbs cholesterol synthesis
throughout the body and results in the accumulation of sphingomyelin.
Progressive loss of neurosteroid synthesis may contribute to
neurodegeneration. Replacing lost allopregnanolone substantially
increases the survival of mice with this type of disease by mitigating
the damage and delaying the onset of symptoms. Results were best when
administered as early as possible in the animal¹s life.
Allopregnanolone may be effective with managing other neurodegenerative
disorders. Other important neurosteroids like pregnenolone are also
diminished in Niemann-Pick type C but what's interesting here is how
valuable allopregnanolone is by itself.
<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/07/040713082347.htm>. NPC
model mice may have amyloid-beta accumulations similar to those in
Alzheimer's [PMID 14982851, 14982829] and may represent a good model for
studying general aspects of neurodegeneration.

5 alpha reductase (5AR) is an enzyme which comes in two forms, type I
and type II. It not only converts testosterone (T) to
dihydrotestosterone (DHT, a ketone), it also converts progesterone to
allopregnanolone and deoxycorticosterone (Doctor) to tetrahydroDOC (THDOC),
both allosteric enhancers of the GABA(a) receptor (e.g., they increase
the effectiveness of inhibition signals relayed along GABA channels in
nerves). The second stage of this conversion is performed by
3alpha-hydroxysteroid oxidoreductase.

This pathway has widespread influence in the body. Progesterone is the
precursor to allopregnanolone. Monthly drops in women¹s progesterone
prior to their periods is a factor in PMS and epileptic seizure.
Progesterone lozenges ameliorate seizures. Both estrogen and
progesterone are important for TMJ remodeling [PMID 10670598]. Men with
epilepsy can benefit from aromatase inhibitors which block the
conversion of testosterone to estrogen via aromatase [PMID 15123030].
Allopregnanolone can block cocaine induced seizures [PMID 12921865].
Complete 5AR inhibition shortens inhibitory currents in GABA(A) channels
both via allopregnanolone [PMID 12559121] and
5alpha-dihydrocoticosterone (THDOC) [PMID 11978855].

SSRIs (antidepressants like Zoloft) have been shown to upregulate levels
of progesterone and allopregnanolone (THP) [PMID 12957330] as well as
neurogenesis [PMID 14872203, 15001810, 14512209]. In animal models it¹s
the hippocampal neurogenesis that accounts for the behavioral effects of
SSRIs [PMID 12907793]. Conversely, inescapable stress which reduces
hippocampal neurogenesis also causes depression [PMID 12838272].

Levels of allopregnanolone can also be regulated by 3alpha-HSDs
(3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase) - enzymes which are identical in
function to 5AR, except they convert T back from DHT instead of the
other way around. 3alpha-HSDs are responsible for downregulating levels
of DHT in the prostate and unusual inhibition of 3alpha-HSD would
increase DHT levels, decrease allopregnanolone and incline a male toward
impaired GABA functioning, acne, baldness, BHP and prostate cancer.
Stimulating 3alpha-HSD might be more effective than 5AR inhibition for
treating androgen disorders (although elevated exposure to either
progesterone or allopregnanolone can become anxiety-provoking instead of
calming; there are gender differences to this effect [PMID 12606703]).

Certain synthetic progesterones may interfere with allopregnanolone
synthesis. Medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA), an ingredient in some
birth control pills and hormone replacement therapies, doesn¹t convert
into allopregnanolone and causes anxiety, aggression and depressed sex
drive in mice compared to combinations of natural hormones
<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/06/040608065645.htm>.

This overview should drive home just how important allopregnanolone may
be to human health. Finasteride is a 5AR type II inhibitor which
reduces DHT levels by up to 70%. Dutasteride inhibits both type I and
type II 5AR achieving a reduction of up to 94% of DHT. Type I is the
only 5AR expressed in the brain. Its long term inhibition was never
studied when dutasteride was approved by the FDA. Blocking DHT
synthesis in the brain like this also blocks allopregnanolone production
there. While other tissues like bone also express 5AR, finasteride has
been specifically studied on bone growth and has had no effect. Will
this also be true for neurodegenerative disorders which take decades to
develop? Will 5AR inhibitors be safe for individuals with epilepsy,
TMJ, neuropathy, alcoholism, tinnitus, metals poisoning or other
GABAergic illnesses?

If it's true that dramatic 5AR inhibition contributes to long term
neurodegeneration then what other therapeutic agents are available for
dealing with excessive DHT?

Understanding why male hormonal disorders like BHP, prostate cancer and
baldness have become common in "advanced" economies is important to
answering this question. One contributing factor is the bad mix of fats
consumed in the American diet (high in trans-fats, hydrogenated oils,
bad omega-6 and -9's and low in omega-3). Another factor is high
glycemic index diets which contribute to insulin resistance and androgen
signaling disorders like polycystic ovarian syndrome. High levels of
insulin lower levels of sex hormone-binding globulin, a substance which
binds to testosterone and lowers the amount of "free" androgens
available to bind to the receptor (see [PMID 14527633],
<http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/acne vulgaris.pdf> ). These
androgen driven disorders are all complex genetic disorders which can
develop from many different angles. For instance, in a small study,
prematurely balding men could be divided into two groups: the first
group (about a third of the men) had a hormonal/insulin profile similar
to women with polycycstic ovarian syndrome (low SHBG, hyperinsulemia,
high free androgens and insulin resistance) whereas the second group had
no similarities or only lower SHBG [PMID 15209536]. How you react to
pathologically elevated levels of DHT is determined by your genetic risk
and your environment.

------------------------------------------------------------------

This sh*t is real ? were going dumb on fina or duta

 

[Bryan]

When finasteride blocks the conversion of test to DHT, you get more test in your system.

Your implication is that there's more testosterone around just because less of it is being metabolized into DHT, but I think you're wrong. I think there's a true upregulation of testosterone synthesis when you take finasteride.

Silly me, I am probably not understanding or is this a possible contradiction Bryan or am I not understanding? Sorry, may I burden you to elaborate?

I was specifically referring to serum levels of DHT and testosterone.

It's been shown that the presence or absence of DHT is one of the things that the brain uses to guage the proper degree of androgenic stimulation (other androgens like testosterone also have an effect on that, as does estrogen). So when the brain "sees" a sharp decline in DHT production while taking finasteride, it assumes that there's less androgenic stimulation going on in the body than there's supposed to be, so it sends the chemical signals (LH and FSH) to the testes, which tell them to start making more testosterone. It's just a natural feedback mechanism that's designed to maintain a proper level of androgens.

 

[hairrific]

Thanks Bryan for elaborating. I am beginning to understand.

 

[Mew]

I was reading the wikipedia article on finasteride and noticed this terrifying line at the bottom of the section on side effects:

[quote:13934hb7]Quote:Finasteride is under investigation by the Swedish Medical Products Agency for possibly causing irreversible sexual side effects.

It has a citation but the link is in Swedish (dated 2006). I've been using finasteride (fincar cut into quarters) for years now, so I found this to be rather alarming. Anyone know what this [was] all about?[/quote:13934hb7]

------------

I'm just the messenger on this one, but since someone wanted an update on the investigation, here it is compliments of another poster.

What you choose to do with the information is up to you -- note that they don't say WHAT PERCENTAGE OF MEN might experience these issues, only that they are possible.


***

"The special investigation of Propecia conducted by the Swedish Medical Products Agency is now completed .

This has resulted in an updated Prescription Information for Propecia in Sweden. The full version of the new english Presciption Information can be retrieved from here:

http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/upload/S ... %20ENG.pdf


Among the most important changes are (in section 4, "Possible Side Effects"):

"* Persistent difficulty having an erection after discontinuation of treatment.

* Infertility has been reported in men who took finasteride for long time and had other risk factors that may affect fertility. Normalisation or improvement of seminal quality has been reported after discontinuation of finasteride. Long-term clinical studies about the effect of finasteride on fertility in men have not been conducted."

In other words, it is now official that Propecia can cause permanent erectile dysfunction that persists even after the treatment has been discontinued.

As can be seen at the bottom of the document it was approved on 2008-10-17.

The Swedish Medical Products Agency is one of the leading regulatory authorities in the EU. Since the Swedish Medical Products Agency is the organization within Europe that is assigned to monitor the safety of Propecia, the text in the new Prescription Information is valid for all European countries."

----------

You can navigate to the Prescription Information document yourself from their web site.

1. Go the web site of Läkemedelsverket (Medical Products Agency in english): http://www.lakemedelsverket.se
2. Make sure you are viewing the Swedish version of the web site (and not the English version). Press the Swedish flag (to the right of "Contact us" text) to get to the Swedish version of the web site.
3. Press "Hälso- & Sjukvård" on the left side.
4. Press "Sök läkemedelsfakta" on the left side.
5. Press "Humanläkemedel A-Ö" on the right side.
6. Press the letter "P" (for Propecia).
7. Search the web page for "Propecia film-coated tablet ENG -publicerad: 2008-10-20", and you will find the document.

--------

You can get the Swedish version of the Presciption Information from Merck Sharp & Dohme's (MSDs) Swedish web site too.

1. Go to: http://www.msd.se
2. Press "Våra läkemedel" on the top of the web page.
3. Press the "För patienter" link to the right of Propecia.
4. You will now be directed to the Swedish version of the new Prescription Information.

PS. Notice that you probably will not see the same Prescription Information if you go via the MSD site in another county, since the document has not been introduced in all countries yet.