Follica - Good News!

[goata007]

Oral doses of lithium and minoxidil when he doesn't look to have a good understanding of the mechanism? Not dissing your knowledge of the subject goata, but having him mess around with oral doses is probably not a good idea just yet.

He mentioned that he's working with a doctor so I figured he knows what he's talking about.


I've noticed people are coming up with quite Creative ways of wounding the skin, so here are a few more:

1) Foot stone (Don't beat yourself with it though)
2) Toothbrush (I'd use a Hard one & without toothpaste)
3) Loofah (again get the hardest one)
4) Bottom of a Boot (new one with pointy edges on it's sole)
5) Cheese Grater (might be a little too manly, but worth a shot)

All those should wound the skin OR.....this might sound awkward......you could just stick with the proven stuff...how about that?

 

[goata007]

I read in the patent: "the invention further features a kit including a composition formulated for topical administration including.."

I don't find in any part of the text, something about oral assumption. And, for sure, I'm not interested to take oral minoxidil. Gefitinib itself, is a drug that could have bad effects (skin disorder are known) and we would like to follow the safer way.

Just so that we're on the same page, I Never suggested that you start drinking minoxidil. What I meant was that you take the drug minoxidil is based on (it has a name and I'm too lazy to search it). As of gefitinib, we don't know if by applying it on your scalp it will do it's job, each drug works in a different way. No one knows if gefitinib is any effective topicaly so mixing it in a solution may lead to no result at all, that's why I said to use it the way it was designed to be used. As of the risks, well the procedure requires that you only take it for a week or two and I don't think gefitinib will cause any bad side effects in such a short time.

You asked this question on another forum but I'm answering it here. EGF & WNT are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things. Search for Elaine Fuchs' video that I posted on another forum that talks in detail about how Wnt signalling results in more hair follicles.

EGF inhibition is a different thing, the idea is to slow down the conversion of stem cells to skin cells and instead have them turn into follicles.

 

[michael barry]

Let me get the first thing out of the way:
Loniten is the name for the pill form of minoxidil.


It amazes me beyond belief how many of these men want to try wounding, but want to put their own goddamned spin on it. STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a waste of time. They will be scratching up their heads for absolutely nothing, getting nothing.


Lefloumonide (Arava) has to be taken ORALLY and converted to another form to block epidermal growth factor receptors by suppression of tyrosine kinease activity.


The men who had hair growth with getfitinib did so by taking it ORALLY. There may be some egf-inhibitors in the patent (I mean hell, they mentioned about ten of them) that would work topically, but they didnt' say which ones were suspected to do so. None of these egf-inhibitiors are natually used topically----------------so if the drug information mentions that it inhibits egf, its KNOWN to do so internally and if your aren't sure about it, THAT IS THE WAY YOU SHOULD USE IT.




Lithium Chloride was used as a table salt REPLACEMENT for a short while. Although it has long-term toxicity, for 10 days using some of it would be fine.



The safest way to "try" the patent would be to wound the head, wait three days..................then take getfitinib, dutasteride, loniten, some lithium chloride (a salted apple twice a day with LiCl as the salt), and a anti-histamine. Dont wash the scalp or let anything (shampoo, any "anti-infective" JUST LIKE THE PATENT TELLS YOU TO) touch the scalp while on these indications. It explicity says no "anti-infectives" are to be used on the abraded area. About ten days post wounding, then one can start to use shampoo again on the abraded area. Hair germs were noted at day 7 post-wounding in the experiment with human skin on the SCID mice, and thats the one we are concerned with. I would stay on an anti-androgen though (finasteride) as the hairs created in the balding area are from cell lines that produced male pattern baldness-hair in the first place.


Why in the hell would anyone go through the hell of sandpapering their noggin so that it peels in three days (painful) just to phuck up the experiment?!!! If you are gonig to do it, do it as the patent tells you to by all damned means unless you think your are smarter than the people at the University of Pennsylvania Dermatology Department.

 

[bugbug]

You are an idiot.

Let me get the first thing out of the way:
Loniten is the name for the pill form of minoxidil.


It amazes me beyond belief how many of these men want to try wounding, but want to put their own goddamned spin on it. STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a waste of time. They will be scratching up their heads for absolutely nothing, getting nothing.


Lefloumonide (Arava) has to be taken ORALLY and converted to another form to block epidermal growth factor receptors by suppression of tyrosine kinease activity.


The men who had hair growth with getfitinib did so by taking it ORALLY. There may be some egf-inhibitors in the patent (I mean hell, they mentioned about ten of them) that would work topically, but they didnt' say which ones were suspected to do so. None of these egf-inhibitiors are natually used topically----------------so if the drug information mentions that it inhibits egf, its KNOWN to do so internally and if your aren't sure about it, THAT IS THE WAY YOU SHOULD USE IT.




Lithium Chloride was used as a table salt REPLACEMENT for a short while. Although it has long-term toxicity, for 10 days using some of it would be fine.



The safest way to "try" the patent would be to wound the head, wait three days..................then take getfitinib, dutasteride, loniten, some lithium chloride (a salted apple twice a day with LiCl as the salt), and a anti-histamine. Dont wash the scalp or let anything (shampoo, any "anti-infective" JUST LIKE THE PATENT TELLS YOU TO) touch the scalp while on these indications. It explicity says no "anti-infectives" are to be used on the abraded area. About ten days post wounding, then one can start to use shampoo again on the abraded area. Hair germs were noted at day 7 post-wounding in the experiment with human skin on the SCID mice, and thats the one we are concerned with. I would stay on an anti-androgen though (finasteride) as the hairs created in the balding area are from cell lines that produced male pattern baldness-hair in the first place.


Why in the hell would anyone go through the hell of sandpapering their noggin so that it peels in three days (painful) just to phuck up the experiment?!!! If you are gonig to do it, do it as the patent tells you to by all damned means unless you think your are smarter than the people at the University of Pennsylvania Dermatology Department.

 

[jakeb]

I don't know... the last patent ( http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp? ... SPLAY=DESC ) very specifically outlines the production of a topical preparation of EGFR inhibitor.

 

[bugbug]

Jakeb just ignore him.
He is a megalomaniac. Calling people stupid and telling them to take gefitinib orally is irresponsible.
The patent calls for a topical dosage of .001% - .1% If you were to make the strongest solution at 0.1% and apply it in 1ml dosages that would mean that you are applying 1mg of gefitinib. 1 pill of gefitinib is 250mg. Thats 250x the dose and you are taking it internally.
Also gefitinib has a special FDA exemption which allowed it to blow through trials to be tried as a last resort for dying patients. If gefitinib proved to be ineffective in those cases it would placed back on experimental status. It is currently under review.
There is no mention in the patent that you cant wash your hair. On the contrary it mentions thousands of things you can prepare as a carrier. Every possible emulsifier, cream, solvent is mentioned.
In none of Folllicas studies have they administered lithium. They have applied wnt7a. Yes lithium can up-regulate wnt by GSK-3b inhibition but they never tried this. Lithium is mentioned as possible ingredient in the 1st patent but is removed from the newer one. Lithium causes permanent destruction to thyroid gland. All bi-polar patients are also prescribed thyroid medication which they have to take until they die.
Follica has stated time and time again they are making a topical.
I dont see michael barry popping any gefitinib ..actually the only thing seems to be doing is telling other people what to do and calling them stupid for not following his very bad advice.

I don't know... the last patent ( http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp? ... SPLAY=DESC ) very specifically outlines the production of a topical preparation of EGFR inhibitor.

 

[bugbug]

My last post should have said 10mg per dose not 1mg...anyway you get the point.

 

[goata007]

He is a megalomaniac. Calling people stupid and telling them to take gefitinib orally is irresponsible.

This from patent: "In any of the forgoing methods the EGFR inhibitor can be administered systemically or topically."

The issue I have with topical gefitinib is that we don't know if that drug would have local or systemic effect with a topical preparation, we don't know if it would get absorbed & processed as if it were taken orally. A patent is just a way of protecting your invention, by NO means does it provide a factual scientific procedure. That's why I suggested that people take some caution and do some research instead of just blindly copying the patent.

Also gefitinib has a special FDA exemption which allowed it to blow through trials to be tried as a last resort for dying patients.

A lot of life saving drugs blow through the trials so they can be of benefit asap, cancer patients usually have nothing to lose when it comes to experimenting with drugs, that's why a lot of cancer drugs come to market way sooner than regular drugs. It's nothing specific to gefitinib.

In none of Folllicas studies have they administered lithium. They have applied wnt7a. Yes lithium can up-regulate wnt by GSK-3b inhibition but they never tried this. Lithium is mentioned as possible ingredient in the 1st patent but is removed from the newer one.

Correct, however they are also working with Elaine Fuchs - who has done extensive research on skin & hair biology. One of videos talks in detail about how WNT is directly co-related with number of follicles, so there is a good possibilty that it may end up in final patent/formulation.

Lithium causes permanent destruction to thyroid gland. All bi-polar patients are also prescribed thyroid medication which they have to take until they die.

I doubt taking lithium for few days will cause permanent damage...its a result of long time usage (as I mentioned several times earlier). With Follica you'd only be on topical/oral lithium for few days, who knows they might have found some other drug that also regulates WNT signalling.

Follica has stated time and time again they are making a topical.

I don't recall ever hearing such thing.

 

[bugbug]

[quote:1sesd8qe]He is a megalomaniac. Calling people stupid and telling them to take gefitinib orally is irresponsible.

This from patent: "In any of the forgoing methods the EGFR inhibitor can be administered systemically or topically."

Its a patent for a method. It was written to protect their interests. They clearly describe topical preperation and dosages. One can't pick and choose from it. It is exhaustive. ..but I think you understand that from your reply so thats cool

The issue I have with topical gefitinib is that we don't know if that drug would have local or systemic effect with a topical preparation, we don't know if it would get absorbed & processed as if it were taken orally.

Nobody knows so why take the crazy route first? Why test if a gun is loaded by shooting at your head?

A patent is just a way of protecting your invention, by NO means does it provide a factual scientific procedure. That's why I suggested that people take some caution and do some research instead of just blindly copying the patent.

I agree with you 100%

[quote:1sesd8qe]Also gefitinib has a special FDA exemption which allowed it to blow through trials to be tried as a last resort for dying patients.

A lot of life saving drugs blow through the trials so they can be of benefit asap, cancer patients usually have nothing to lose when it comes to experimenting with drugs, that's why a lot of cancer drugs come to market way sooner than regular drugs. It's nothing specific to gefitinib.[/quote:1sesd8qe]

Thats obvious but we are talking about gefitinib and its cousins. Gefitinib is specifically under review because of its poor preformance. In other words the risks out way the gains.

[quote:1sesd8qe]In none of Folllicas studies have they administered lithium. They have applied wnt7a. Yes lithium can up-regulate wnt by GSK-3b inhibition but they never tried this. Lithium is mentioned as possible ingredient in the 1st patent but is removed from the newer one.

Correct, however they are also working with Elaine Fuchs - who has done extensive research on skin & hair biology. One of videos talks in detail about how WNT is directly co-related with number of follicles, so there is a good possibilty that it may end up in final patent/formulation.[/quote:1sesd8qe]

I know who Elaine Fuchs is and we have been talking about wnts and beta catenin's role in hair biology on the forums for over decade now. What I don't know anything about is her involvement with Follica. Do you have a link to this information? Its the 1st Ive heard of it.

[quote:1sesd8qe]Lithium causes permanent destruction to thyroid gland. All bi-polar patients are also prescribed thyroid medication which they have to take until they die.

I doubt taking lithium for few days will cause permanent damage...its a result of long time usage (as I mentioned several times earlier). With Follica you'd only be on topical/oral lithium for few days, who knows they might have found some other drug that also regulates WNT signalling.[/quote:1sesd8qe]

Litihium creates a marker that tells the the autoimmune system to start attacking the thyroid gland. It has nothing to do with dosage or long term use. The lithium itself is not destoying the gland. It could take a very long time...like a lifetime before the thyroid is destroyed because the attack is slow. Stopping the lithium does not stop the attack. It permanant, progressive and irreversible.

[quote:1sesd8qe]Follica has stated time and time again they are making a topical.

I don't recall ever hearing such thing.[/quote:1sesd8qe][/quote:1sesd8qe]

Its in a press release or two. That is by no means a definitive final protocal. They haven't done any human trials yet. Do you seriously think they will go the internal route with drugs that have FDA experimental status for hairloss? That makes no sense.

 

[michael barry]

From the first patent, http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo= ... SPLAY=DESC

P-7628-PC

[000124] In another embodiment, the excisional wounds of methods of the present invention are not surgically closed. In another embodiment, the excisional wounds are not contacted with a bandage or dressing before they heal or during a period of time after wound induction. In another embodiment, the excisional wounds are not contacted with an ointment before they heal or during a period of time after wound induction, hi another embodiment, the excisional wounds are allowed to heal by secondary intention. Each possibility represents a separate embodiment of the present invention.

[000125] The subject of methods of the present invention, is, in another embodiment, a human. As provided herein (Example 7) human skin responds to EDIHN in the same manner as mouse skin.

Furthermore:

00015O]In another embodiment, the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region is not contacted with a bandage or dressing following the epidermal disruption. In another embodiment, the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region is not contacted with an ointment following the epidermal disruption. In another embodiment, the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region is allowed to heal for a period of time without being contacted by any substance, device, ointment, etc., that is ordinarily administered to an

P-7628-PC abrasion or wound to facilitate healing. Ih another embodiment, the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region is allowed to heal for a period of time without being contacted by any substance, device, ointment, etc., that is ordinarily administered to an abrasion or wound to prevent infection. In another embodiment, the period of time is the time it takes the epidermal disruption to heal. In another embodiment, the period of time is any time or range of times between 2 days and 3 weeks. Each possibility represents a separate embodiment of the present invention.

[00015I]In one embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 2 days. In another embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 3 days. In another embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 4 days. In another embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 5 days. In another embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 7 days. In another embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 10 days. In another embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 2 weeks. In another embodiment, "following" refers to a period of time of about 3 weeks. Each possibility represents a separate embodiment of the present invention.

Were the mice in the experiments washed Bugbug?
No, they weren't. Thats why I say until somebody has success washing their nogging post-wounding, I'd keep the shampoo and all the chemicals therein (like tea tree oil which is used as a healing ointment and is quite good at it) off of the wound. Why on earth would you want to painfully abrade your scalp and have to live with that discomfort for a good week up there, feeling like youve had a massive sunburn, for nothing at all. I want the guys to have success on the first try (so they can tell me exactly what they did so I can cop it).



Bugbug, you need to learn to read EXACTLY what people write before you fire off presumptiously. I wasn't calling people stupid for trying to use getifitinib topically. I was calling people stupid (but didn't want to be explicit) for wanting to use NATURAL EGF-inhibitiors, most of which ALSO INHIBIT WNT (look it up, they damn near all inhibit wnt and this includes quercitin, green tea, apple polyphenols, etc.) WHEN THE PATENT EXPLICITY STATES TO USE NON-NATURALLY OCCURING EGF-Inhibitors.


Furthermore, SOME of the egf-inhibitors listed like lefloumonide (brand name Arava) DEFINITELY have to be converted to another metabolic form by the body to inhibit egf (in lefloumonide's case by tyrosine kinease inhibition). If you dont believe me, log onto hairsite and ask TAGOHL, who knows more about hair than anyone Ive ever talked to besides Bryan Shelton.


You are probably right though. I shouldn't have used strong language in denouncing folks wanting to use naturals up there (that unfortunately inhibit wnt, and may not be effective for other reasons besides that). But I stand by this----a lot of the men who will be trying this attempting to put their own spin on it are going to go through a painful week on their noggin' for nothing at all. Dermabrasion isn't a picnic when it removes the stratum cornelium, and feels like a really bad sunburn. Like I said................I want these guys to have success, take pictures, and come back here and tell me exactly how they did it. Ive been guinea pig enough over the past two years trying various anti-androgens on my beard hair, wrist hair, etc. Im tired of experimenting trying to find a great anti-androgen topical that we can make at home, and certainly dont want to phuck with this until Im reasonably sure I'll have success. Thats why I would advise erring on the side of caution and trying to cop it as close to the vest as possible.


But then again.................I hope you DO shampoo and HAVE success. Believe me, I'd much rather be able to wash up there post-wouding. I want one of you to grow a chia pet up there, come back here, and share how. Im mindful that Follica is being evasive in the patent. Daphne Zohar wont even mention in interviews what two FDA-approved medications they intend to use in their trials. And they haven't tried this on a human yet, so we dont know exactly what they intend to try. The patents (both of them) attempt to cover every conievable scenario so no other entity would even have a chance of patenting anything related and have success. I firmly believe that ---if----this works in vivo on a human being, we will be able to pretty much do it at home.


Best of luck with it bugbug. I hope you grow alot of hair (so you can tell us all how you did it).

 

[joemadrid]

Could be possible to use the chemicals topically but surrounding the wound, not directly? I mean in not abraded zones.

 

[xcvq]

Does anyone know of a natural EGF inhibitor that doesn't inhibit WNT?

 

[michael barry]

Does anyone know of a natural EGF inhibitor that doesn't inhibit WNT?
Does anyone know of a natural EGF inhibitor that doesn't inhibit WNT?

The first thing I looked for after seeing the follica patent months ago (the first one, before the "kit" patent) was if there were natural substances that inhibited epidermal growth factor.


I thought I'd hit the jackpot. Quercetin, Apple polyphenols that should be present in apple juice, green tea, even curcumin inhibits some aspects of epidermal growth factor.

Every single one of them also inhibits the wnt pathway to some extent. Google can get you this info very quickly. Just google "green tea inhibits wnt" and you will see what I mean. I knew that the results were jacked way up (like 14 times up) in the first patent when wnt7a was administered, so I knew wnt was mega-important.

This presents a sticky situation. Do I wound and just use lithium chloride (lithium salts in the first patents verbiage) that mimics wnt signalling in human beings..................but not block epidermal growth factor? Do I wound and inhibit egf-with one of the natural egf-inhibitors, but block wnt signalling?
The patent stated very plainly to use "non-naturally occuring egf-inhibitors", so I took follica at their word. I wondered aloud online at here and hairsite whether follica was simply being "defensive" and not wanting someone to find out that they could use topical green tea extract with wounding and have hair or something, but got no responses. In a way, I wish someone would try it with apple juice or green tea. But not me. Im not psyched about scratching my head so much that it will peel like a sunburn for two weeks and endure that pain to get nothing. I want to be reasonably sure its going to work before going through the rigamorole of all this.


It would probably be good if one of these guys.....................tries a natural egf-inhbitor in retrospect. I just hope he comes back here and tells us if he got a good response or no response or just a few hairs. I certainly AT LEAST would want anyone trying the patent to not use any anti-infective substance on their heads for a while (tea tree oils or shampoos that contain certain tree bark extracts that are supposed to be anti-infectives like soapbark, etc.). I suppose if a bunch of you get together and try this.................some of you might use shampoo, and some not, some use natural egf-inhbitors, and some use the synthetic drugs mentioned in the patent, that one of you will have success and everyone could cop what the guy who was successful did later. Hence my suggestion folks just get the stuff follica mentioned in the patent, do them internally, and not shampoo..................which is conservative. Im anxious for one of the guys willing to give up a couple of weeks to do it and have success, and frankly even went so far as to order some Arava myself----but It didn't come in the mail, which was a big waste of money. Ive been tempted to try and buy some getifitinib from India, but I'll probably wait until one of you has success and see what he did, or for Follica to trial this stuff. I must admit Im worried that Follica isn't going to tell us anything though. They are no doubt very aware men are willing to try this at home, and were probably shocked men are willing to pore over their patent which is posted online to find out how. Daphne Zohar mentioned that "there was a lot of incorrect information" regarding the patent online at various sites. She was almost assuredly referencing hairsite and regrowth, where discussion has been hot and heavy on how to do this at home. So they know if they have a trial and its successful, a lot of men will be attempting it at home. They may not tell us much of anything regarding the trial or which drug they used, whether they used it topically, what carrier they used, how much, what days they used it, etc.

We do have this going for us however, if it works, eventually we will be able to just buy it from them, so you will get it someday if its efficious, one way or the other.

 

[michael barry]

Could be possible to use the chemicals topically but surrounding the wound, not directly? I mean in not abraded zones

Ive thought about this myself, especially in regards to minxoidil.....................I know minoxidil has been shown to effect areas on the scalp not directly under application (Bryan has posted stuff like this in the past in his debates with Stephen in regards to minoxidil applied to one half of the scalp having some effect on the other half). This seemingly would have possibilities. Im not however, afraid to take a drug that is FDA approved, for a mere ten days. Nobody is going to turn green from erlonitib for instance from popping the pill for ten days, and no one is going to get sick from using lithium chloride, which used to be used as a table salt until long term toxicity was found with it, for a mere ten days.



Formulate a gameplan Joe and write it down and try it. Let us know if you had success. If you do, tell us exactly what you did. Hell, if 20 of us try different things, surely one of us will hit the jackpot. I really dont want to do it this summer myself----Im about to go on vacation and am excited about it, but maybe later this year I'll give it a try myself.....

 

[Orin]

Well that's a much better post than screaming at people and calling them stupid for not being able to afford/and or being able to get a hold of the stuff from the patent (both situations applies to me). As I've said before, there are many reasons for deviations.

I know you're as anxious as everyone else to see something conclusive, or at the very least see a continuation from this plateau of information we seem to be at, but it's not terribly considerate to first chastisise people for deviating from the patent, and then turn around and express your appreciation for what these deviations (once tested) might teach us all about the mechanism behind the procedure. It gives an unstable impression, that probably belies your insight into this, and just leads to annoying forum-bickering.

This thread is pretty big already, but a good one. It would be a shame if it got swayed off course. It would be good if we all could try to keep our tone to eachother civil.

Anyway - I didn't know these natural EGFR-inhibitors also inhibited WnT. It makes me wary of ordering that pure EGCG.. as it is, I'll probably hold off from it. I got some results with dermabrasion and lithium ona very small scale. It *seems* adding caffeine helped the whole thing a little further (though nothing spectacular by any measure).
It should be noted that I *did* pluck about 10 minituarized hair in that area, so the extra good regrowth I got could very well have come from that (as that sets of stem-cells).

Personally, I'd probably explore the scalp peel + lithium + caffeine route for atleast 2 passes on my head. Best case scenario, it could (if the results are even all over my head, and if they are cumulative) be worth the trouble.

Also - if the phenol study is to be believed (and Elaine's hair-study as well), just disturbing the scalp skin slightly results in hair coming out of their rest-state into an active one. So that is both a factor in all this, and also some consolation for those that tried deviations of the patent that did not result in much regrowth.

Again, it is of some note that the second time I dermabraded a virgin temple, I did so very lightly, and still got better results (for aformentioned reasons perhaps) than my first time around. The whole thing was healed completly within a week, which goes well in hand with peels that are just below a medium peel, such as 20% salicylic acid - which I will be buying. So here's hoping that gives fruit.

It might be presumptious of me, but just by looking at the mouse-study, it seems that WnT-signaling might not have quite the same impressive regrowth/new-growth effect in humans. Or perhaps lithium is just a pretty mediocer substitute for the more precise "WnT proteins" Follica reportedly are using.

Anyone who is jumping into this as an at-home remedy should probably adjust their expectations accordingly. For me, it's probably enough to have another tool to use every other month or so (peel+lithium) to perhaps very narrowly turning the tide of hair-loss, rather than waiting out a sliding descent (just being on propecia).

Let's keep discussions going (and with caution to everyone else jumping in), and let's also try to be on the look-out for people who have gained access to gefitnib and are trying it out in any capacity. I only visit this forum and very briefly read another one, so I probably won't be super-up-to-date like some of you guys
That's probably where the really interesting new info will come from (as Follica put their smarty-hat on and shut down the whole talking-to-outside-people-thing they got going a couple of months ago).

People have probably put green tea extract on their head for at least a decade (as green tea is one of those "catch-all" remedies people are bound to try), and if it noticably grew hair, we would probably have seen some info on that by now, at least in a study or two.

Though I realize the fundamental flaw in that kind of thinking (X *probably* did Y, therefore I shall not even try Y).

 

[masculineyourheart]

Thanks for clarifying all that for us michael, you seem to have calmed down now.

I wasn't aware of natural EGFR inhibitors also suppressing wnt signalling, I wish you'd have mentioned it earlier.

I was hoping wounding plus a green tea topical would have merit not just as an EGFR inhibitor but also as an endogenous stem cell proliferator (which lithium carbonate also happens to be but EGCG on its own is not). The original Costarelis study showed that controlled wounding triggered an embryonic state within the skin, making it receptive to being told what to do by certain wnt proteins. So... I guess having all these excitable stem cells ready to go are no good if there's nothing telling them what to do. :ninja: ? :ninja: ? :ninja: ?

Anyway, we're not going to over commit ourselves financially, or physically, to the follica homebrew experiment when we don't know whether this is even going to work. Hopefully cheap makeshift natural alternatives will miraculously end up doing something good so we won't need to consider becoming man w****s to pay for all the gefitinib. :beer:

 

[first]

Again, it is of some note that the second time I dermabraded a virgin temple, I did so very lightly, and still got better results (for aformentioned reasons perhaps) than my first time around. The whole thing was healed completly within a week, which goes well in hand with peels that are just below a medium peel, such as 20% salicylic acid - which I will be buying. So here's hoping that gives fruit.

Wouldn't you get that by just mixing aspirin with water? If so, it would be a very easy to make and to get peel.

 

[michael barry]

Here is a picture of follica working on some experimental mice close up, http://tressless.com/blog/wp-content/up ... enesis.jpg

3gchemist.com is a place that one can buy getfitinib. Its an Indian firm. Folks can simply click "no prescript" and order it through paypal. They had it cheap too...........about $400, not 2400 bucks.


Im wondering about the Arava I ordered. Ive never ordered anything that didn't eventually make its way here. I got it without a prescript. It makes me think the postal service is on the lookout for candadian meds coming into the US that are supposed to be prescription. I know some guys have complained about dutasteride from Asia not getting here after they ordered it.



Article: Suppression of wnt signalling by green tea compound, http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/281/16/10865


Article: Suppression of wnt signalling by apple polyphenol, http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18119900


Article: Suppression of wnt signalling by quercetin: http://www.jacionline.org/medline/record/MDLN.16968065

Article: Resveratrol and wnt: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 6/abstract


Article: Curcumin and wnt, http://www.agrawal.org/PDF/Curcumin-Season-Bw1.pdf



Wasn't happy to find any of that, but there it is. I sure wish those articles reached a different conclusion. Believe me, I'd love to just take some quercetin tablets (or merely eat a few apples), sandpaper my scalp and voilia': hair. It would be so much easier---and cheaper.....




Lithium Chloride mimics some wnt signalling, but almost assuredly isn't as good as wnt applied itself. Wnt7a was the specific wnt in the patent that really "upped" the effect on the mice, but I'd have absolutely no idea how we could get our mitts on refined wnt7a from a lab. I dont think anything like that would be for sale to the general public.

 

[masculineyourheart]

Would there be a danger of growing tumours or the like on your head using wnt7a or gefitinib? Say... if people were trying these experiments 6 or more times a year and taking serious amounts of either substance?

 

[juggernaut]

Orin, I just sent you PM. Please check. I need to know more about your regemine.