Follica - New Patent Published 2017 - Needling Device And Drug Applicator

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

Trust me I agree they look good, untrained eye wouldn't catch it. Just not 100% natural due to that one fact. If we get unlimited grafts trust me I'll be the first in line for a hair transplant. Future hairloss just scares the sh*t of me. Balding > balding with a hair transplant and ran out of grafts

Well part of getting a hair transplant is doing your best to understand where your loss is likely going/could go, then plan according to that. There's a big difference between a NW6/7 and a 4V-5 in terms of graft requirements. If you've got a good donor and do strip first you're looking at 10k+ grafts in the bank, I've seen guys who have gotten ~9k grafts via strip and are estimated to still have 4k FUE left. That amount combined with finasteride halting/drastically slowing loss should easily get you to Tsuji/whatever else comes along in the next 10-20 years.

 

[Crystalclear12]

Well part of getting a hair transplant is doing your best to understand where your loss is likely going/could go, then plan according to that. There's a big difference between a NW6/7 and a 4V-5 in terms of graft requirements. If you've got a good donor and do strip first you're looking at 10k+ grafts in the bank. That amount combined with finasteride halting/drastically slowing loss should easily get you to Tsuji/whatever else comes along in the next 10-20 years.

There's no way you're getting 10k grafts. The unpredictability is what gets me. Even with mapping etc, you don't know your future pattern, it's just a guess. One you start getting past Norwood 5 territory is when hair transplants start to look unnatural in my opinion because the transplanted hairs are thick, not fine like a normal low density person. I'm a Norwood 2/2.5 and would LOVE to get one, but the unpredictable is what stops me. Plus we don't know 100% of tsuji will come out. If it does, I'm booking a hair transplant the right away and I'll use the tsuji technology later when it's cheaper.

 

[MrV88]

Topical dutasteride?

I make a hole in the Avodart pills (soft capsules) and press the liquid into a bottle of minoxil. 10 capsules are enough, each contains 0.5mg

 

[DoctorHouse]

I just looked over Follica's info again and it indicates it won't involve an at-home wounding device. The at-home part of the treatment is apparently for applying topical chemicals. As far as the in-office device goes, I'm not ready to comment on the degree of skill someone will have to possess to use that device on patients. I don't have enough information yet. Right now, Follica is saying that a "licenesed professional" will use that device on patients.



Dr. House thanks for the information. Did Follica specifically say a doctor will definitely have to do the in-office wounding procedure? If a doctor has to do it then that is signficant. Also, if it's so significant that a doctor has to do it then Follica may give those doctors some training.



Follica and Shiseido should do more than maintain.

Yes, a doctor will have to do it.

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

There's no way you're getting 10k grafts. The unpredictability is what gets me. Even with mapping etc, you don't know your future pattern, it's just a guess. One you start getting past Norwood 5 territory is when hair transplants start to look unnatural in my opinion because the transplanted hairs are thick, not fine like a normal low density person. I'm a Norwood 2/2.5 and would LOVE to get one, but the unpredictable is what stops me. Plus we don't know 100% of tsuji will come out. If it does, I'm booking a hair transplant the right away and I'll use the tsuji technology later when it's cheaper.

Well first of all you're very borderline on even getting a transplant as a Norwood 2-2.5. I'd suggest learning to love your hairline hop on finasteride if you're not already and wait for a Tsuji result (good or bad cause you're right, he could easily not succeed).

This is off topic as fuckk but I gotta respond.

Not sure why you doubt 10k is possible when you go FUT-->FUE. This of course depends on your donor, some guys have basically no donor and others have a thick mane of it, most are in the middle. The number of 2's/3's/4's also plays a role, hair caliber, etc. All play into your long term planning and decision, gotta see where you personally are at because being a guy w/ a sh*t ton of thick donor and a good responder to finasteride and non-aggressive loss is a totally different thing then the other side of the spectrum.

And your family history does give you very valuable insight into your future loss, if you've got no full blown NW6/7 anywhere in your known family then you've got very low odds of getting there (especially because a true NW7 is very rare on it's own, NW6 a little less so but most balding guys don't get there either). hair transplant are all about playing the odds.


Gunna blow your mind right now cause you seem unaware of the insane hair black magic the top FUT doctors are pulling off these days. This is 3972 grafts on a mangy diffused Norwood 4V/5 that has medium/coarse donor hair. He hopped on finasteride afterward so that probably helped his crown a little (he's in his mid/late 40's though so prob didn't get that young person strong rebound) but the grafts were tapered all the way back.

The guy is completely transformed, all he needs is a little color on the sides to get rid of the grey. And he's still got a fuckload of grafts in the bank because he went with strip, Doctor told him he's got an easy 3k grafts of FUT remaining.

 

[Crystalclear12]

Well first of all you're very borderline on even getting a transplant as a Norwood 2-2.5. I'd suggest learning to love your hairline hop on finasteride if you're not already and wait for a Tsuji result (good or bad cause you're right, he could easily not succeed).

This is off topic as fuckk but I gotta respond.

Not sure why you doubt 10k is possible when you go FUT-->FUE. This of course depends on your donor, some guys have basically no donor and others have a thick mane of it, most are in the middle. The number of 2's/3's/4's also plays a role, hair caliber, etc. All play into your long term planning and decision, gotta see where you personally are at because being a guy w/ a sh*t ton of thick donor and a good responder to finasteride and non-aggressive loss is a totally different thing then the other side of the spectrum.

And your family history does give you very valuable insight into your future loss, if you've got no full blown NW6/7 anywhere in your known family then you've got very low odds of getting there (especially because a true NW7 is very rare on it's own, NW6 a little less so but most balding guys don't get there either). hair transplant are all about playing the odds.


Gunna blow your mind right now cause you seem unaware of the insane hair black magic the top FUT doctors are pulling off these days. This is 3972 grafts on a mangy diffused Norwood 4V/5 that has medium/coarse donor hair. He hopped on finasteride afterward so that probably helped his crown a little (he's in his mid/late 40's though so prob didn't get that young person strong rebound) but the grafts were tapered all the way back.

The guy is completely transformed, all he needs is a little color on the sides to get rid of the grey. And he's still got a fuckload of grafts in the bank because he went with strip, Doctor told him he's got an easy 3k grafts of FUT remaining.


View attachment 60258

View attachment 60259


View attachment 60260

View attachment 60261

View attachment 60262

Without going too off topic just throwing my 2 cents in. Even though fam history is a guide, it's not 100%. I'm a "for certain" type person. A hair transplant can only achieve about 25% density on a Norwood 7 if you break it down mathematical (8k grafts, 2.5 hairs avg per graft, compared to a full head with 125,000 hairs all over and you need 50% density to appear full). This is when hair caliber and contrast come into play.

I'm a Norwood 2/2.5 at 27. Start receding at 20, been on finasteride 7 years.

 

[Christian Miller]

Well first of all you're very borderline on even getting a transplant as a Norwood 2-2.5. I'd suggest learning to love your hairline hop on finasteride if you're not already and wait for a Tsuji result (good or bad cause you're right, he could easily not succeed).

This is off topic as fuckk but I gotta respond.

Not sure why you doubt 10k is possible when you go FUT-->FUE. This of course depends on your donor, some guys have basically no donor and others have a thick mane of it, most are in the middle. The number of 2's/3's/4's also plays a role, hair caliber, etc. All play into your long term planning and decision, gotta see where you personally are at because being a guy w/ a sh*t ton of thick donor and a good responder to finasteride and non-aggressive loss is a totally different thing then the other side of the spectrum.

And your family history does give you very valuable insight into your future loss, if you've got no full blown NW6/7 anywhere in your known family then you've got very low odds of getting there (especially because a true NW7 is very rare on it's own, NW6 a little less so but most balding guys don't get there either). hair transplant are all about playing the odds.


Gunna blow your mind right now cause you seem unaware of the insane hair black magic the top FUT doctors are pulling off these days. This is 3972 grafts on a mangy diffused Norwood 4V/5 that has medium/coarse donor hair. He hopped on finasteride afterward so that probably helped his crown a little (he's in his mid/late 40's though so prob didn't get that young person strong rebound) but the grafts were tapered all the way back.

The guy is completely transformed, all he needs is a little color on the sides to get rid of the grey. And he's still got a fuckload of grafts in the bank because he went with strip, Doctor told him he's got an easy 3k grafts of FUT remaining.


View attachment 60258

View attachment 60259


View attachment 60260

View attachment 60261

View attachment 60262

Really, dude?
We are talking about hair transplants now?
In this subforum?

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

Really, dude?
We are talking about hair transplants now?
In this subforum?

Sorry to interrupt bro, I'll just be a sec. I know we've got pressing matters to talk about, what with only a 1-2 year wait until we get some real new research meat to chew on.

Without going too off topic just throwing my 2 cents in. Even though fam history is a guide, it's not 100%. I'm a "for certain" type person. A hair transplant can only achieve about 25% density on a Norwood 7 if you break it down mathematical (8k grafts, 2.5 hairs avg per graft, compared to a full head with 125,000 hairs all over and you need 50% density to appear full). This is when hair caliber and contrast come into play.

I'm a Norwood 2/2.5 at 27. Start receding at 20, been on finasteride 7 years.

Only around 5% of balding men get to NW7 and the majority of them know it's coming both from the developing pattern/aggressiveness of loss and their family history, no idea why you're so focused on it. If you're a "for certain" type of person then transplant definitely isn't for you, but then again why are you on finasteride then because you could lose your dick/libido function from it even though only 3-5% of guys get sides...

To appease the Christian bro I'll bring it full circle for the subforum, replicel already has shown efficacy and seems very promising for halting loss even if you have to get it re-done every 5 years, that's gunna be a game changer. Tsuji seems too good to be true but I'm prepared to be proven wrong.

 

[Crystalclear12]

Sorry to interrupt bro, I'll just be a sec. I know we've got pressing matters to talk about, what with only a 1-2 year wait until we get some real new research meat to chew on.




Only around 5% of balding men get to NW7 and the majority of them know it's coming both from the developing pattern/aggressiveness of loss and their family history, no idea why you're so focused on it. If you're a "for certain" type of person then transplant definitely isn't for you, but then again why are you on finasteride then because you could lose your dick/libido function from it even though only 3-5% of guys get sides...

To appease the Christian bro I'll bring it full circle for the subforum, replicel already has shown efficacy and seems very promising for halting loss even if you have to get it re-done every 5 years, that's gunna be a game changer. Tsuji seems too good to be true but I'm prepared to be proven wrong.

I'm on finasteride because it keeps my hair, and I don't get sides. And if I did get sides I could simply get off the meds and they would disappear like countless others. If i have a hair transplant issue I can't just rip the hairs out and start over. Why are you questioning me lol it's just my opinion on hair transplant. If you have one, cool, I haven't got one because I want to be able to shave if I get to a Norwood 5 because I don't think Norwood 5 transplants look good in real life, in natural light, I've seen them. I've gone on 3 consults with top hair transplant docs in the past. This is just one mans opinion, if I knew I had unlimited grafts then I would. But there are tons of people that recede a bit, stop for 20 years, then go from Norwood 3 to Norwood 6 in 5 years. I never want to look unnatural.

And @Christian Miller youre welcome to hit the ignore button, or suck a dick, whichever you prefer.

 

[username1]

Hey guys, regarding Follica do you know if there would be any hope for people who don't respond to minoxidil?

 

[coolio]

10k transplant grafts? Don't EVER bet on that.

The first grafts are always the best ones. FUE is cherry-picking the ones with more/thicker hairs. FUT is getting them all from the best part of the scalp. Either way, your second batch of grafts will not be as much total "hair weight" as your first batch was. The gains will keep on diminishing as you raid your donor more and more.

Compare a good 4000-graft patient to a 8000-graft one. The latter rarely ever looks like he got twice as much hair as the former. Not even the "showoff" cases.

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

I'm on finasteride because it keeps my hair, and I don't get sides. And if I did get sides I could simply get off the meds and they would disappear like countless others. If i have a hair transplant issue I can't just rip the hairs out and start over. Why are you questioning me lol it's just my opinion on hair transplant. If you have one, cool, I haven't got one because I want to be able to shave if I get to a Norwood 5 because I don't think Norwood 5 transplants look good in real life, in natural light, I've seen them. I've gone on 3 consults with top hair transplant docs in the past. This is just one mans opinion, if I knew I had unlimited grafts then I would. But there are tons of people that recede a bit, stop for 20 years, then go from Norwood 3 to Norwood 6 in 5 years. I never want to look unnatural.

And @Christian Miller youre welcome to hit the ignore button, or suck a dick, whichever you prefer.

Some guys get permanent sides... anyway I'm not questioning you since imo at Norwood 2-2.5 you should wait a few years min and I don't have one (yet), just having a discussion cause it's sunday and I'm bored. You seem overly focused on low percentage outcomes that's all, I'm actually similar to you in terms of risk aversion/minimization, it's important to be aware of the worst case scenarios but you can go too far with it.

NW6 is rare (hair loss works on a bell curve, Norwood 6/7 are on the end of it), and I'd be shocked if Tsuji's type of research doesn't succeed in 20 years considering where he is today and replicel is right around the corner and by all accounts looks like a solid loss halting treatment at minimum. And this is just one man's opinion but a good transplant like the one I posted up there ^ looks 100000% better then a "natural" NW5 sub-human baldcel like he was before, and he could more then double the grafts on there if he wanted like the guy I'll post down below but he's totally satisfied with it as is.

On topic for Christian:
Hopefully soon the replicel/follica/Tsuji combo gives every man a solid head of hair back. We have SO much more hope then guys did even 10-15 years ago, let alone 20-30. We had to get through those doldrums of study/experimentation to get where we are now.

10k transplant grafts? Don't EVER bet on that.

The first grafts are always the best ones. FUE is cherry-picking the ones with more/thicker hairs. FUT is getting them all from the best part of the scalp. Either way, your second batch of grafts will not be as much total "hair weight" as your first batch was. The gains will keep on diminishing as you raid your donor more and more.

Compare a good 4000-graft patient to a 8000-graft one. The latter rarely ever looks like he got twice as much hair as the former. Not even the "showoff" cases.

This depends entirely on your donor and honestly I just don't agree except in cases where the guy has a very weak/limited donor. I've got equally thick hair everywhere except the top of my head, I could FUE until the end of time and 4k graft strips are not wide on that kind of healthy thick donor, there are plenty to go around especially considering the odds are good that I won't go past a NW5 given my pattern and family loss and the general percentages of the Norwood scale.

Since talk is cheap, here's a guy who's had around 10k grafts total, the first 2k were a semi-failure (they're the forelock), the rest were Dr. Hasson strip. I'll let you be the judge but to me he wayy overdid it, he could've/should've stopped 3-4k grafts earlier and kept them in the bank but he said he consulted with Lorenzo after all that stripping who told him he has 4k FUE in the bank. First transplant at 26, he's 35 now, claims his hair is pretty fine which makes the results even more insane. His sides were high so it's not totally comparable to the other guy but it illustrates the point, look at all that f*****g hair lmao. Dunno if I'm allowed to link to another hair site but if anyone wants the link to any of these cases I've posted just pm me.


This right here is what we're all hoping Tsuji/replicel accomplishes.

I'll shut up now before Christian Miller yells at me again, lol!

 

[That Guy]

Hey guys, regarding Follica do you know if there would be any hope for people who don't respond to minoxidil?

Yes

 

[Crystalclear12]

Some guys get permanent sides... anyway I'm not questioning you since imo at Norwood 2-2.5 you should wait a few years min and I don't have one (yet), just having a discussion cause it's sunday and I'm bored. You seem overly focused on low percentage outcomes that's all, I'm actually similar to you in terms of risk aversion/minimization, it's important to be aware of the worst case scenarios but you can go too far with it.

NW6 is rare (hair loss works on a bell curve, Norwood 6/7 are on the end of it), and I'd be shocked if Tsuji's type of research doesn't succeed in 20 years considering where he is today and replicel is right around the corner and by all accounts looks like a solid loss halting treatment at minimum. And this is just one man's opinion but a good transplant like the one I posted up there ^ looks 100000% better then a "natural" NW5 sub-human baldcel like he was before, and he could more then double the grafts on there if he wanted like the guy I'll post down below but he's totally satisfied with it as is.

On topic for Christian:
Hopefully soon the replicel/follica/Tsuji combo gives every man a solid head of hair back. We have SO much more hope then guys did even 10-15 years ago, let alone 20-30. We had to get through those doldrums of study/experimentation to get where we are now.





This depends entirely on your donor and honestly I just don't agree except in cases where the guy has a very weak/limited donor. I've got equally thick hair everywhere except the top of my head, I could FUE until the end of time and 4k graft strips are not wide on that kind of healthy thick donor, there are plenty to go around especially considering the odds are good that I won't go past a NW5 given my pattern and family loss and the general percentages of the Norwood scale.

Since talk is cheap, here's a guy who's had around 10k grafts total, the first 2k were a semi-failure (they're the forelock), the rest were Dr. Hasson strip. I'll let you be the judge but to me he wayy overdid it, he could've/should've stopped 3-4k grafts earlier and kept them in the bank but he said he consulted with Lorenzo after all that stripping who told him he has 4k FUE in the bank. First transplant at 26, he's 35 now, claims his hair is pretty fine which makes the results even more insane. His sides were high so it's not totally comparable to the other guy but it illustrates the point, look at all that f*****g hair lmao. Dunno if I'm allowed to link to another hair site but if anyone wants the link to any of these cases I've posted just pm me.



View attachment 60270

View attachment 60271

View attachment 60272

View attachment 60273


I'll shut up now before Christian Miller yells at me again, lol!

That's where our opinions differ. The first picture you posted of the bald guy with 3900 grafts does not look natural at all. Even to the untrained eye it looks like something's going on there. As soon as he steps into daylight that transplants completely seethrough, me personally, I'd rather shave my head then be known as the guy that has an unnatural looking hair transplant. Also that other picture you posted is the top 1% results, I've seen those before i think that guy if I'm not mistaken was interviewed by the media for how natural his looked. The whole "wait a few years" doesn't really apply if you've had stable hairloss or 5+ years without any advancement.

 

[Crystalclear12]

Some guys get permanent sides... anyway I'm not questioning you since imo at Norwood 2-2.5 you should wait a few years min and I don't have one (yet), just having a discussion cause it's sunday and I'm bored. You seem overly focused on low percentage outcomes that's all, I'm actually similar to you in terms of risk aversion/minimization, it's important to be aware of the worst case scenarios but you can go too far with it.

NW6 is rare (hair loss works on a bell curve, Norwood 6/7 are on the end of it), and I'd be shocked if Tsuji's type of research doesn't succeed in 20 years considering where he is today and replicel is right around the corner and by all accounts looks like a solid loss halting treatment at minimum. And this is just one man's opinion but a good transplant like the one I posted up there ^ looks 100000% better then a "natural" NW5 sub-human baldcel like he was before, and he could more then double the grafts on there if he wanted like the guy I'll post down below but he's totally satisfied with it as is.

On topic for Christian:
Hopefully soon the replicel/follica/Tsuji combo gives every man a solid head of hair back. We have SO much more hope then guys did even 10-15 years ago, let alone 20-30. We had to get through those doldrums of study/experimentation to get where we are now.





This depends entirely on your donor and honestly I just don't agree except in cases where the guy has a very weak/limited donor. I've got equally thick hair everywhere except the top of my head, I could FUE until the end of time and 4k graft strips are not wide on that kind of healthy thick donor, there are plenty to go around especially considering the odds are good that I won't go past a NW5 given my pattern and family loss and the general percentages of the Norwood scale.

Since talk is cheap, here's a guy who's had around 10k grafts total, the first 2k were a semi-failure (they're the forelock), the rest were Dr. Hasson strip. I'll let you be the judge but to me he wayy overdid it, he could've/should've stopped 3-4k grafts earlier and kept them in the bank but he said he consulted with Lorenzo after all that stripping who told him he has 4k FUE in the bank. First transplant at 26, he's 35 now, claims his hair is pretty fine which makes the results even more insane. His sides were high so it's not totally comparable to the other guy but it illustrates the point, look at all that f*****g hair lmao. Dunno if I'm allowed to link to another hair site but if anyone wants the link to any of these cases I've posted just pm me.


This right here is what we're all hoping Tsuji/replicel accomplishes.


View attachment 60270

View attachment 60271

View attachment 60272

View attachment 60274

View attachment 60273


I'll shut up now before Christian Miller yells at me again, lol!

You can just look at that guys pics and just cringe at what he'll look like at 45 with that diffused Norwood 6 pattern. Look around at men in their 50s and 60s VERY rarely do you see Norwood 1s. I can't help but imagine what all these 20/30 year olds will look like when they're in their 50s.... many suicides.

 

[sunchyme1]

But there are tons of people that recede a bit, stop for 20 years, then go from Norwood 3 to Norwood 6 in 5 years

are you sure this is true?

never heard of hairloss starting and stopping and starting again

always thought people's hair loss followed the same pattern throughout, whether they slowly bald from 20 to 40, or bald aggressively at 35 and go bald in 5 years.

 

[MrV88]

Some guys get permanent sides... anyway I'm not questioning you since imo at Norwood 2-2.5 you should wait a few years min and I don't have one (yet), just having a discussion cause it's sunday and I'm bored. You seem overly focused on low percentage outcomes that's all, I'm actually similar to you in terms of risk aversion/minimization, it's important to be aware of the worst case scenarios but you can go too far with it.

NW6 is rare (hair loss works on a bell curve, Norwood 6/7 are on the end of it), and I'd be shocked if Tsuji's type of research doesn't succeed in 20 years considering where he is today and replicel is right around the corner and by all accounts looks like a solid loss halting treatment at minimum. And this is just one man's opinion but a good transplant like the one I posted up there ^ looks 100000% better then a "natural" NW5 sub-human baldcel like he was before, and he could more then double the grafts on there if he wanted like the guy I'll post down below but he's totally satisfied with it as is.

On topic for Christian:
Hopefully soon the replicel/follica/Tsuji combo gives every man a solid head of hair back. We have SO much more hope then guys did even 10-15 years ago, let alone 20-30. We had to get through those doldrums of study/experimentation to get where we are now.





This depends entirely on your donor and honestly I just don't agree except in cases where the guy has a very weak/limited donor. I've got equally thick hair everywhere except the top of my head, I could FUE until the end of time and 4k graft strips are not wide on that kind of healthy thick donor, there are plenty to go around especially considering the odds are good that I won't go past a NW5 given my pattern and family loss and the general percentages of the Norwood scale.

Since talk is cheap, here's a guy who's had around 10k grafts total, the first 2k were a semi-failure (they're the forelock), the rest were Dr. Hasson strip. I'll let you be the judge but to me he wayy overdid it, he could've/should've stopped 3-4k grafts earlier and kept them in the bank but he said he consulted with Lorenzo after all that stripping who told him he has 4k FUE in the bank. First transplant at 26, he's 35 now, claims his hair is pretty fine which makes the results even more insane. His sides were high so it's not totally comparable to the other guy but it illustrates the point, look at all that f*****g hair lmao. Dunno if I'm allowed to link to another hair site but if anyone wants the link to any of these cases I've posted just pm me.


This right here is what we're all hoping Tsuji/replicel accomplishes.


View attachment 60270

View attachment 60271

View attachment 60272

View attachment 60274

View attachment 60273


I'll shut up now before Christian Miller yells at me again, lol!

This looks like ART. Can't imagine that 90% of the patients would look like that. You know who did this?

 

[Crystalclear12]

are you sure this is true?

never heard of hairloss starting and stopping and starting again

always thought people's hair loss followed the same pattern throughout, whether they slowly bald from 20 to 40, or bald aggressively at 35 and go bald in 5 years.

Balding starts, can stop for decades, then start again. I've researched this extensively because I was curious where I'd end up as my hairline hasn't changed in 7 years. Given, I am on finasteride, but my dad has the same pattern. Went to a Norwood 2/2.5 in 20s, now at 60 he's starting to thin out at the crown.

 

[sunchyme1]

Balding starts, can stop for decades, then start again. I've researched this extensively because I was curious where I'd end up as my hairline hasn't changed in 7 years. Given, I am on finasteride, but my dad has the same pattern. Went to a Norwood 2/2.5 in 20s, now at 60 he's starting to thin out at the crown.

well i know im headed for nw7 lol.

but i dont expect to get there for another 10 years or so when im in my 40s. pretty regular hair loss since 17/18

i can only hope ill be saved before i get there with this new tech stuff

i agree with eveything you say about hair transplants. its bullshit

 

[sunchyme1]

So basically, you crush 10 pills of avodart and drop them in your minoxidil?

a dash of nizoral and you have the perfect cocktail