For those wanting a topical finasteride formula

[Cassin]

I have been pretty damn happy with Dr Lees formula. I cannot vouch for its effectiveness since I haven't been using it long enough or without finasteride tablets but I can at least vouch for it drying clean, not being an irritant and not being a hassle.

Good stuff and relatively cheap.

However you do have to use it with a minoxidil solution since its a combo product. I bought this bottle on a whim with my last minoxidil order and I haven't decided if I am going to permanently fit this into my regimen yet. Probably not right now but down the road I likely will.


***********************************************

#768 Minoxidil 6%-Plus
Price: $ 31.50

Quantity and Ingredients: 65 mL. 6% minoxidil (60mg minoxidil / mL) and 0.1% finasteride (1mg finasteride / mL) in a liquid base of 50% ethyl alcohol, 30% propylene glycol, 20% water and a trace of phosphoric acid

Length of Use: 65 mL is a 1-month supply when used twice daily as directed or a 2-month supply when used once a day in combination with other minoxidil or Xandrox formulations.

http://minoxidil.com/

 

[Todd]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but 0.1% finasteride equals 1mg/ml. 1mg is the recommended dosage of finasteride.
Minoxidil is supposed to be applied twice daily.

So if I apply this formula twice, that is 2ml, I would get 2mg of finasteride per day?

 

[Ian Curtis]

On your scalp...its not like taking the medication.

 

[Cassin]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but 0.1% finasteride equals 1mg/ml. 1mg is the recommended dosage of finasteride.
Minoxidil is supposed to be applied twice daily.

So if I apply this formula twice, that is 2ml, I would get 2mg of finasteride per day?

basically...and exactly how much is getting absorbed into your blood stream is debatable.

And for the record I only use minoxidil once a day.

 

[Guest]

Dear Cassin,
Just a couple of questions to see if you can help us make sense of it.

Firstly, finasteride is known to be unstable in solution, particularly in acidic environment. It is degraded within one week. So I really don’t know if those people who received good results are really caused by the “plusâ€￾ or simply the high concentration of minoxidil with azelaic acid. Secondly, let’s say Dr. lee has magic to make it stable, then my question is--is it safe to use it? Essentially you are adding the entire 1 mg of finasteride (that would be spread around your whole body if you would take it by mouth) onto a very small area (your scalp). Will that cause brain damage? I understand that using it topically is to try to avoid the unwanted side effect of finasteride (such as reduced libido and increased cancer risk). But would it cause other more serious problem by putting so much finasteride on one's head. Is there any safety experiment was done with this topical use?

Thanks

 

[Cassin]

Brother those are excellent questions and I am sure if you send Dr Lee an email he will address each one.

I do not want to speculate on such specific questions...I have always avoided doing that here.

 

[Bryan]

Firstly, finasteride is known to be unstable in solution, particularly in acidic environment. It is degraded within one week.

Where'd you hear that?

 

[$tackz]

Essentially you are adding the entire 1 mg of finasteride (that would be spread around your whole body if you would take it by mouth) onto a very small area (your scalp). Will that cause brain damage? I understand that using it topically is to try to avoid the unwanted side effect of finasteride (such as reduced libido and increased cancer risk). But would it cause other more serious problem by putting so much finasteride on one's head. Is there any safety experiment was done with this topical use?

Thanks

The human scalp isn't a direct access point to the brain or anything just because they're "near" each other. There are so many barriers and natural bodily functions protecting the brain from chemicals and toxins it's crazy.

Even if it was, I have never heard of oral finasteride (which "affects" the brain harder than topical finasteride in any case) even having a risk of causing brain damage. Source?

 

[monitoradiation]

I've only heard that finasteride inhibits more of type 2 AR, with a lower inhibition percentage of type 1 AR, which is more prominent in the brain. Dutasteride is supposed to inhibit type 1 as well as type 2 significantly more than finasteride does, which is why people are generally advised not to use it for hairloss as its effects on the brain has not been studied fully in long-term...

 

[twistlogic123]

I am shocked and dismayed that a topical finasteride product exists.

I have little doubt that it works well. However, finasteride is very dangerous for a pregnant woman to TOUCH. The product in question here is essentially crushed finasteride tablets dissolved in topical Minoxidil, then filtered.

Topical Minoxidil is basically a drug (minoxidil) dissolved in a liquid vehicle that aids the absorption of drugs into the skin. Adding another drug (fenasteride) that is DANGEROUS for pregnant women to TOUCH, puts unsuspecting women at risk ...wives and girlfriends running their fingers through the (thinning) hair of the man they love, as well as young female hair stylists who may well be pregnant, and who have NO IDEA that the scalp they are touching during their work, is transferring finasteride to the skin of their fingers, and into their bloodstream. Remember, it is invisible, but dissolved in a skin-penetrating vehicle.

How many such men have no idea they are putting female hairstylists at risk? How many female hair stylists would go ahead and cut your hair if you told them, "honey, touching my scalp may cause the genitals of the baby boy in your tummy to be deformed and extremely small"?

Women touch men when they make love, and place their cheeks on the same pillows that are contaminated with whatever is coming off of the scalp of the man they are sleeping with. In such a household there are contaminated combs lying around which may be shared or cleaned by women. With topical fenasteride, any dandruff from the man, is basically medium-potency fenasteride dust.

Doctor Lee may well be a doctor, but that doesn't entitle him to reformulate an FDA-approved drug into a product that the FDA would BAN outright. The reason that drug prescribing is limited to doctors is supposedly that doctors are aware of the risks, and can take these into account.

That doesn't seem to have happened here.

 

[Cassin]

thats a bit paranoid don't you think?

 

[timbo]

I am shocked and dismayed that a topical finasteride product exists.

I have little doubt that it works well. However, finasteride is very dangerous for a pregnant woman to TOUCH. The product in question here is essentially crushed finasteride tablets dissolved in topical Minoxidil, then filtered.

Topical Minoxidil is basically a drug (minoxidil) dissolved in a liquid vehicle that aids the absorption of drugs into the skin. Adding another drug (fenasteride) that is DANGEROUS for pregnant women to TOUCH, puts unsuspecting women at risk ...wives and girlfriends running their fingers through the (thinning) hair of the man they love, as well as young female hair stylists who may well be pregnant, and who have NO IDEA that the scalp they are touching during their work, is transferring finasteride to the skin of their fingers, and into their bloodstream. Remember, it is invisible, but dissolved in a skin-penetrating vehicle.

How many such men have no idea they are putting female hairstylists at risk? How many female hair stylists would go ahead and cut your hair if you told them, "honey, touching my scalp may cause the genitals of the baby boy in your tummy to be deformed and extremely small"?

Women touch men when they make love, and place their cheeks on the same pillows that are contaminated with whatever is coming off of the scalp of the man they are sleeping with. In such a household there are contaminated combs lying around which may be shared or cleaned by women. With topical fenasteride, any dandruff from the man, is basically medium-potency fenasteride dust.

Doctor Lee may well be a doctor, but that doesn't entitle him to reformulate an FDA-approved drug into a product that the FDA would BAN outright. The reason that drug prescribing is limited to doctors is supposedly that doctors are aware of the risks, and can take these into account.

That doesn't seem to have happened here.

The ethyl alcohol in the solution evaporates very quickly after it is applied to the scalp.

 

[andrei_eremenko]

oh my God...what are telling us...is like a person who has AIDS has no right to touch the healthy people...c'mon...what about that risk of cancer?

 

[twistlogic123]

Paranoid? Not at all. Paranoia is a delusion that one is being pursued by malevolent forces. If I am being pursued, I don't know about it and don't even suspect it! This wasn't about my safety anyway. As a man, fenasteride can't hurt me. But what about pregnant women and the fetus?

I think what you meant, is that the mechanism of exposure seemed farfetched.

Not really. Do you use Minoxidil? Rub your finger on your scalp where it was applied, and taste it. Quite bitter, eh? Even many hours after application, still bitter. Note what you've just done. Rubbed your finger on your scalp, and tasted active drug. Do you see any powder? No. That is because the minoxidil is STILL in dissolved form, still being carried by the agent which helps it to penetrate skin.

The only difference, is the person to whom that finger is attached. Your finger? No problem ...except if you claim it's not a problem (because if you taste BITTER, your own tongue has just proved you wrong). A pregnant woman's finger, such as a hair stylist or wife? If it's HER finger, there is a clear exposure issue. The question becomes, how much? When the FDA reviews drug applications, all of these "fine points" are of great concern. When fenasteride was approved, it was in PILL form, with a strong coating and even stronger warnings not to let broken pills touch the fingers of women who are or may be pregnant, lest birth defects affecting the penis result. Read the drug data sheet inside the box. VERY STRONG WARNINGS against breaking pills. In other words, the danger was considered SO GREAT that even a tiny fraction of the dose in one pill... just a bit of powder from a broken one- was enough to cause concern.

As for the gentleman who pointed out that alcohol evaporates... ummm... yes. But alcohol is not the problem. Finasteride getting all over the place, THAT is the problem. Yes, the alcohol evaporates. It's just a diluent, designed to help you apply a thinner film of product. And if it weren't for the (liquid) propylene glycol left behind, we'd have fenasteride powder getting all over the place as fine dust ...even WORSE! (it would be all over your pillow and your girlfriend would be inhaling it as she sleeps).

Since the exposure mechanisms I've described are very plausible, it's a matter of exposure LEVELS. Maybe topical fenasteride is safe, but this can only be proven by a study. Did Dr. Lee do such a study? I'm thinking he did not.

Oh, and by the way, if the exposed pregnant woman is the one carrying your unborn son, your newborn boy may the proud owner of a very unusual penis (instead of the urethral opening being on the tip ...it can be pretty much anywhere, including as far down as the scrotum). Something for Daddy to think about.

 

[timbo]

F-I-N-A-S-T-E-R-I-D-E. In case you're having trouble remembering.

I'm not going to lie, I thought about this when I first heard about topical finasteride, but I doubt there is any reason for concern. The alcohol is responsible for most of the absorption, and it evaporates quickly. Dr. Lee's minoxidil products don't have that greasy feeling that you are describing. He uses less propylene glycol than most minoxidil solutions. Mine dries in seconds after I apply it.

 

[Bryan]

While I think there's some theoretical truth to what the poster "twistlogic123" said, I think it's mostly overblown. I think the danger to pregnant women from touching finasteride pills, even broken ones, is being exaggerated a bit. I once read in a medical journal article that it wouldn't even be all that bad for a pregnant woman to actually SWALLOW a finasteride pill on one single occasion, although that's obviously not something she would want to do on a regular basis. I think this dire, scary warning about not handling broken finasteride pills by pregnant women is mostly just a bit of ultra-cautious "Cover-Your-***" by the FDA.

 

[Cassin]

maybe if you went in there with topical finasteride dripping from your hair and she had a cut it could possibly get into her skin.

imagine the chemicals women get exposed to daily from cutting hair..you think all that garbage in hair care products that guys use is ok?

 

[JWM]

Topical finasteride will forever be a mystery.

 

[twistlogic123]

Thanx for the spelling tip. Sorry ...didn't check.

As for alcohol drying immediately... it doesn't matter. Just do the taste test I described. If touching your scalp transfers something bitter tasting to your finger, then it would do the same for a pregnant women. Whether alcohol dried or didn't dry, the proof is in the taste. If it transfers for minoxidil, same goes for FENASTERIDE. (Oh, and by the way, I spelled it FINASTERIDE because the subject heading did so. I didn't start this thread).

As for it being overblown... that's a perfectly legit criticism. Is it just paranoid CYA in those warnings about the tiniest bits of broken pill? If so, then what I'm talking about here is likewise. I'm basing my supposition on the FDA warnings, I'm not saying that those warnings aren't actually hogwash.

But, given that the warnings are so strong, I think it's worrisome that a topical fenasteride product is being marketed. Basically, the pill includes a warning about DUST from breaking the pill, implying great potency. For those who would blow it off, I ask this. Are you THAT sure? If your wife was carrying your unborn son, and you had topical fenasteride on your scalp, would you invite her to run her fingers thru your hair? That's your son in there...

 

[Bryan]

(Oh, and by the way, I spelled it FINASTERIDE because the subject heading did so. I didn't start this thread).

The correct spelling _is_ "finasteride".

As for it being overblown... that's a perfectly legit criticism. Is it just paranoid CYA in those warnings about the tiniest bits of broken pill? If so, then what I'm talking about here is likewise. I'm basing my supposition on the FDA warnings, I'm not saying that those warnings aren't actually hogwash.

But, given that the warnings are so strong, I think it's worrisome that a topical fenasteride product is being marketed. Basically, the pill includes a warning about DUST from breaking the pill, implying great potency. For those who would blow it off, I ask this. Are you THAT sure? If your wife was carrying your unborn son, and you had topical fenasteride on your scalp, would you invite her to run her fingers thru your hair? That's your son in there...

I probably wouldn't invite her to run her fingers through my hair in such a case; but keep in mind that in my earlier post, I was specifically referring to the handling of finasteride pills (broken or otherwise) by pregnant women. The dire warning against THAT is what I consider to be excessive.