For those wanting a topical finasteride formula

[hairrific]

I am just guessing here: Topical finasteride is not going where 5ar is converting T into DHT locally within the hair follicle because of sebum protecting and blocking the route of topical finasteride as well as blocking anything else foreign that might want to sneak into your hair follicles. It would probably stop hair loss completely if we could get finasteride where it needs to be locally. Therefore the finasteride is just absorbed in the skin and into the blood stream and somewhat very inefficiently at that. So might as well do oral finasteride.

 

[timbo]

Thanx for the spelling tip. Sorry ...didn't check.

As for alcohol drying immediately... it doesn't matter. Just do the taste test I described. If touching your scalp transfers something bitter tasting to your finger, then it would do the same for a pregnant women. Whether alcohol dried or didn't dry, the proof is in the taste. If it transfers for minoxidil, same goes for FENASTERIDE. (Oh, and by the way, I spelled it FINASTERIDE because the subject heading did so. I didn't start this thread).

I feel like a rebuttal to this would be a waste of time because I would just be repeating what I already said. Twistedlogic123, you should go back and read my previous post. Make sure you focus on the part where I said that Dr. Lee's formulas dry faster than most minoxidil solutions, even the ones that you are so fond of tasting...

Also, why are you assuming that finasteride absorbs into the skin the same as minoxidil? I'm confident that you didn't get that handy piece of information from anything scholarly?

 

[twistlogic123]

Bryan,

You're probably right about the warnings against small doses of finasteride being WAY overblown. That is also my suspicion. Might I say, STRONG suspicion. On the other hand, the warnings are there, so let's at least take them at face value and see where it leads us.

It boils down to this: if those warnings are NOT overblown, then there is reasonable cause for concern for a topical product. Why? Because the mechanisms I described are more than just plausible, they are pretty hard to explain away. In fact, the set of circumstances taken together create an interesting irony: if finasteride is very, very poorly absorbed, then there is no logic for including finasteride in a topical product, as the product would be ineffective. If it is only somewhat poorly absorbed, you can overcome the poor absorption by increasing the dosage, but that means increasing the amount placed on the scalp which ultimately is NOT absorbed, but instead gets all over pillows an combs and the like. Only if finasteride is rapidly and completely absorbed, could finasteride contamination not be an issue.

(Once again, we're assuming that the warnings aren't silly overreaction, which they easily might be. Personally, I suspect they are ).

From my knowledge of chemistry, I would expect that finasteride's similarity to cholesterol would make it reasonably absorbable by skin. Brain-tanning of hides, where the brain of the deer is used to make the hide of the deer soft and pliable, is based on this (the brain is very, very rich in cholesterol). On the other hand, cholesterol (and finasteride) are rather large molecules, which slows things down. Propylene glycol, being a very small molecule, absorbs much more quickly, and facilitates the absorption of larger molecules. That's why it's used in Minoxidil preparations.

And Timbo, if Dr. Lee's preparation is more alcohol based, and dries more quickly, that's not better, it's worse. Unless there is something gooey to hold it against the skin, whatever drug is dissolved in it would be more likely to flake off dry.

Hairrific has a great point that, perhaps topical application is really only a rather inefficient way of getting finasteride into the bloodstream. If true then one might as well take oral finasteride as he suggests. But my suspicion is that the oily nature of sebum might make it the preferential absorber of finasteride. So ask the real world: guys... does this topical finasteride stuff work really well? If so, sebum is likely facilitating rather than blocking the delivery of finasteride to the target, implying topical is an ideal way to administer finasteride... but only as long as it isn't dangerous to others.

The contamination mechanisms I've described are sound. The big question is: is finasteride actually dangerous to pregnant women? Personally, I think the evidence is against it. So those dire warnings about broken pills should be removed from the packaging. Maybe they're in there for a different reason ...the makers of Propecia don't want do-it-your-selfers to use pill-cutters to make 4 or 5 doses of "DIY Propecia" out of one tablet of Proscar, or Heaven forbid, generic finasteride!

Jeeze, it's like I'm trying to take your topical finasteride away. I'm not. I simply raised a question that should have been resolved before the product was launched. And you should want it resolved... especially if your wife is pregnant with a boy!

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

You're probably right about the warnings against small doses of finasteride being WAY overblown. That is also my suspicion. Might I say, STRONG suspicion. On the other hand, the warnings are there, so let's at least take them at face value and see where it leads us.

It boils down to this: if those warnings are NOT overblown, then there is reasonable cause for concern for a topical product. Why? Because the mechanisms I described are more than just plausible, they are pretty hard to explain away. In fact, the set of circumstances taken together create an interesting irony: if finasteride is very, very poorly absorbed, then there is no logic for including finasteride in a topical product, as the product would be ineffective. If it is only somewhat poorly absorbed, you can overcome the poor absorption by increasing the dosage, but that means increasing the amount placed on the scalp which ultimately is NOT absorbed, but instead gets all over pillows an combs and the like. Only if finasteride is rapidly and completely absorbed, could finasteride contamination not be an issue.

There was an interesting study a few years ago which looked at the effectiveness of topical finasteride for male pattern baldness. They applied it to the scalps of balding volunteers, using probably a pretty standard alcoholic vehicle (and probably propylene glycol, although they didn't describe the vehicle in any great detail). Interestingly, the blood DHT levels of the men dropped by close to 40%, obviously showing that there was _some_ systemic absorption of the finasteride (after oral doses of finasteride, blood values typically decline by around 60% to 70%, or even more). By the way, haircounts of the men were unaffected to any significant extent, showing an apparent failure of the topical approach.

When you asked if I would allow a pregnant wife to run her fingers through my hair after having applied such a finasteride lotion to my scalp, it gave me pause, because that's considerably different from what _I_ had been talking about! The scalp is known to be a more efficient absorber of topical chemicals than other parts of the body, especially skin on the hands and fingers (the palms of the hands are devoid of hair follicles and sebaceous glands, and hair follicles are an important part of such topical absorption); furthermore, an alcoholic vehicle that includes propylene glycol is surely FAR more likely to get some of that drug or chemical into you than just dry, broken chunks of some tablet that you hold in your hand or fingers! For those reasons, I felt like I needed to specify the exact conditions I was talking about: no, I don't think a pregnant woman should get in contact (even with just her hands or fingers) with a finasteride lotion or solution which is specifically designed to enhance its absorption; on the other hand, I still think merely touching or handling broken finasteride tablets is innocuous, as long as she doesn't do anything as obviously stupid as swallowing any of those broken chunks.