Hair Loss and Genetics - Do you Agree with this?

james555

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Hi Guys,

its been a while I posted on the forum - I wanted to ask your opinion on what you think of the following...

Some doctors (in the UK) say if you have hair loss, its genetic, and there is nothing you can do about it - only help slow it down by pharmaceutical drugs, along with its side effects.

What do you think?
 

James Moody

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Thus they implicitly claim that genes are in themselves, a cause, that express themselves independently of any environmental cue. Such a claim is obviously both implausible and empirically dishonest. Is it for instance a pure coincidence that hair loss tend to correlate with socioeconomic status and upbringing? There's a lot of power and capital invested in claims such as 'it's genetic'.
 

James Moody

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I'm not sure if there's any cure for baldness, only potential methods for the prevention of baldness. If balding is on the rise, then obviously there's something about the way we organize, structure and live our lives within our culture (I don't know if you've read it, but balding may be linked to higher rates of heart disease - suggesting....?). To me, the loss of hair (at least at a early age) is from a evolutionary point of view, difficult to quite see as something entirely natural and given, given that you then may risk living the majority of your life without hair on your head - and hair may be pretty important aesthetics aside (excellent isolation from the cold, excellent protection from the sun - can it even collect D vitamin from the sun (acting as a skin cancer reducer and at the same time collect vitamins)?). (What if the body should be looked as a whole, as a 'holistic' system, where nutrition is channeled around; but when the body is damaged, the body must channel all it's available nutrition to heal the damage - and so there is now then a nutritional deficit and thus the body has to sacrifice it's least important asset for the sake of prioritizing more important ones - the result is hair loss?)

Sorry, just some sketchy thoughts, stream of consciousness, - should have been sleeping by now.
 

Magma

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It's almost certainly genetic, however, I believe there is an emerging evidence that suggests it could manifest much earlier than usual due to bad lifestyle and health choices. Before I started to practically starve myself, I was a thick NW1. A few months after that, I'm thinning NW2 now. I know, I know. Correlations doesn't imply causation, yada yada yada. I still think there is one and should be investigated more.
 

maher

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There's curiously little research on demographics, but here is one article: http://www.hitay.com/en/press-room/press-releases/hair-loss-research

Furthermore, have you ever thought about the rate of hair loss in North Korea compared to that in South Korea? They are virtually of the same genetic stock, but judging from the pictures it might certainly look like the North Koreans are far less prone to balding.

In North Korea only ruling elite is losing hair ;) Perhaps they send bald people to work camps.

But its true, I see more and more articles where doctors claim that it is not all genetics-.
 

James Moody

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I also see increasingly more articles regarding e.g. mental illnesses - such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder - illnesses long propagated to be genetic (everything is genetic in origin - but, again, can genes be causes in themselves?), where science now show that they may be tightly linked to e.g. environmental poisoning. Although this not related to hair loss, such instances is nonetheless a testimony which incites one to be critical towards the 'gene paradigm'.
 

Magma

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OK, I won't blame you for being newbies to the hair loss world.

Oh, please. I'll bet my left leg I know a lot more science behind hair loss in general than you and the vast majority of the other posters who are the "newbies" when it comes to science and have only gotten your knowledge from articles. I've actually published and done research on related fields in the past on this.

The reality is that there is only evidence that male pattern baldness is 100% genetic and is not affected by your environment.

Don't group me into the whole bandwagon of those claiming it's environmental, I've never claimed anything of the sort. Also, just because current evidence says something doesn't mean it isn't subject to change at all. If you actually knew how to read, you'd see I ceded that "there is no evidence" and rather I believe (without any scientific reason) that there is a correlation and more research needs to be done. That is actually a very scientific and sound opinion to hold. The fact you think evidence is static and never changing demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the scientific method and only further proves that you know nothing of the hard science and details behind hair loss.

People are balding faster and at a younger age you say? It's a nice and comforting belief. But unfortunately, it is not true. People were balding very early before. I started balding at 17, my father started at 17 and my grandfather at 17 too.

You don't seem capable of understanding my statement. I didn't say baldness is more prevalent among recent generations, rather people who have already had a genetic predisposition to going bald later in life are possibly starting to go bald early than they should have. Poor lifestyle choices can affect your final height, cognitive ability, sight, etc. all of which are genetic and researchers only recently found that poor lifestyle choices can drastically affect these things which were once thought to be due all entirely to genetics. There is absolutely no reason to think hair loss isn't one of those factors even if it is predominately genetic, and it is completely scientific to suggest more studies be done on this in lieu of recent evidence.


Those theories you have are dangerous. They can prevent you from seeking proven treatments or your hair loss. Your time is precious if you want to slow down your hair loss, so don't make the same mistake a lot of us did. You're in the denial stage. You're not doing something wrong, you've just been dealt crappy hair genetics. So don't be hard on yourself.

Nice strawman. No one is suggesting stopping hair loss treatments for those who get it early, once you have it, you have it. Can you or can you not understand this? What we're interested in is if lifestyle choices such as diet and other factors could increase the likelihood of early hair loss (since the health of hair follicles is often a function of one's diet). We're well aware that it is genetic and people who are losing early were going to lose it anyway, but, the question is if there was anything they could do beforehand to decrease the risk of early hair loss. That is the scientific question. Do you now understand?

For example, someone can have a genetic predisposition to lung cancer. Before evidence surfaced that lung cancer is heavily linked to smoking, would you also claim scientists who suggest that there may be a link that needs to be studied are crackpots and claim a person who gets lung cancer early on gets it because it's all "genetic" and there will never be any evidence that lifestyle choices affect this? Funnily enough, many scientists argued exactly that. Those scientists have all been shown today to be complete imbeciles and possibly responsible for the early deaths of millions.
 

Magma

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So, you think that if I had a twin brother, and my parents had sent to him to, let's say Okinawa and consumed only very healthy foods, he might not have gone bald at 17 like me?

No, I have not at all alluded to that. It's evident you have poor reading comprehension issues and a poor grasp of scientific reasoning, so continuing this conversation with you is pointless.

If you're genetic code says you will go bald early, there's very little you can do to change that. What I (as well as others) suspect are certain factors that could cause the early onset of this. I have not ever claimed that someone who goes bald early would not have gone bald later in life, rather, I have posited that someone who was genetically determined to go bald much later in life could go bald early on due to lifestyle choices. It's a perfectly acceptable scientific question to ask and to study, as it is not at all in conflict with anything in the current scientific literature on hair loss and it complements the scientific studies done previously on characteristics that were once thought to be purely genetic but are now accepted to have a lifestyle/environmental component to them.

Do you or do you not understand this? If not, then I apologize, because I simply cannot dumb this down any further.
 

Armando Jose

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Hi Magma, You seem a good guy and experienced in hairloss studies,
can you point out the exactly genes involucrated in common hairloss?,
do you think problems in hairloss between women and men are different?
is it possible read some of your papers?
TIA
 

abcdefg

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Sure sounds right to me. A lot of times though saying something is genetic or that exercise and diet causes something is just another way of saying we dont know yet. I am not convinced there is much if anything you can do to really influence the extent of male pattern baldness I think your fate is largely determined based on your family history. If you want to know how bald you will be just look at your family history in terms of hair.
I dont think male pattern baldness falls under an 80/20 rule where environment plays a large role and genetics some minor one. I think its more like 5/95 for male pattern baldness with 95 being out of your control entirely. Each disease is different what applies to one does not always apply to others. If someone shows proof to the contrary I would change my mind, but I have never seen anyone show that
 
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