Hasson & Wong Vancouver, Canada 4000-5000 Fut

[allmotorkl]

Hello guys,

I was thinking of seeing Hasson & Wong for an FUT in the coming weeks. I have experienced hair loss since I was 23, I just turned 33 years old so I believe it is time to get it done and over with.

I was on finasteride for 5 years and stopped taking it. Since I have stopped I now can see the loss of hair in my crown area which will also need to be transplanted with about 1400 grafts. I will need about 3200-3500 in the frontal area for dense packing.

I have been a member of this forum for a long time, since I was experiencing the beginning stages of hair loss and it was a very good resource for educating myself, I was wondering if Hasson and Wong are still the leaders in this field at least in Canada, if not Globally.

Thanks

 

[Roberto_72]

Hello guys,

I was thinking of seeing Hasson & Wong for an FUT in the coming weeks. I have experienced hair loss since I was 23, I just turned 33 years old so I believe it is time to get it done and over with.

I was on finasteride for 5 years and stopped taking it. Since I have stopped I now can see the loss of hair in my crown area which will also need to be transplanted with about 1400 grafts. I will need about 3200-3500 in the frontal area for dense packing.

I have been a member of this forum for a long time, since I was experiencing the beginning stages of hair loss and it was a very good resource for educating myself, I was wondering if Hasson and Wong are still the leaders in this field at least in Canada, if not Globally.

Thanks

They are among the leaders, yes.
If I were you I would consider FUE too. I don't like the idea I cannot buzz my hair anymore.

 

[allmotorkl]

Yes, but they told me for the high amount of grafts I require that FUT is a better option and they can put the strip higher up so I can still get away with a 1.5 or 2 fade on the sides and back. FUE is also alot more expensive, I was looking at around 22k for it, FUT was around 15k.

 

[dr. cole]

H&W are tops for FUT. I would not consider them at all for FUE. Ask for Dr. Wong if you go there.

 

[shookwun]

H&W are tops for FUT. I would not consider them at all for FUE. Ask for Dr. Wong if you go there.

What are your thoughts on Dr. Armani, and his previous actions within the transplant industry?

 

[allmotorkl]

I did ask for him.

 

[allmotorkl]

Anyone else?

 

[Davidubi]

If I lived in north America I would only consider Hasson and Wong, fortunately there are top surgeons in Europe already but definitely Hasson and Wong lead the way.
I wonder why people still think on FUT as an option.
I desagree with dr.cole, H&W are top doctors also using FUE technique.
when they switched to FUE, at the beginning they used artas as a shortcut but the are already using manual punch.

 

[Dsport]

They are among the leaders, yes.
If I were you I would consider FUE too. I don't like the idea I cannot buzz my hair anymore.

Go do it.

Why waste time "consulting".

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

If I lived in north America I would only consider Hasson and Wong, fortunately there are top surgeons in Europe already but definitely Hasson and Wong lead the way.
I wonder why people still think on FUT as an option.
I desagree with dr.cole, H&W are top doctors also using FUE technique.
when they switched to FUE, at the beginning they used artas as a shortcut but the are already using manual punch.

Uhh there are multiple other top shelf FUT surgeons in N.A. Konior (also top shelf FUE), Gabel, Cooley, Rahal... and the reason FUT is still the gold standard is because it maximizes your donor graft count (strip out then go FUE on your immaculate donor minus the thin scar), there is less variability in yield and quality of the grafts (aka more likely to get a home run result vs a shitty one that wastes grafts and requires touch ups), less damage to the donor (fibrosis and scarring across the entire donor vs a thin strip, FUE creates more scar tissue if you put it all together versus the strip), ability to do more grafts in a single session, cheaper. FUE is getting good but it isn't a cure all and there's a lot of guys who need to do FUT first if they're serious about hair restoration long term.

These European/Turkey mega-FUE sessions are an absolute travesty, f*****g demolish the donor while taking a ton of the hair from the very edges of the safe zone and leave the patient with little or no grafts in the bank to deal with inevitable future loss and usually donor thinning and scarring that keeps them from cutting their hair shorter then they could pull off with a good strip scar anyway (#2 buzz).

Go do it.

Why waste time "consulting".

Because you want to hear the surgeons opinion on your hair and what kind of approach they think is needed for your particular case and if they agree with your desires for the restoration (aka you want a NW1 but they tell you you're delusional and why it's a terrible idea long term to go that low), or if you're a candidate at all (many aren't). Doctors like Konior turn away over 50% of the guys who contact them for a hair transplant because they're bad candidates.

 

[MrHulley]

Hasson & Wong have been performing FUE for two years. Why anyone would go to them for FUE is beyond me.

"...with a good strip scar anyway (#2 buzz)."

That is only in the best case scenarios which is rare. The difference is that with strip scarring you can't control 100% how it's going to heal. With FUE you simply control how many grafts you take out in a specific area. So on one hand you have an uncontrollable variable due to donor tension that can't (or shouldn't) be guaranteed. On the other hand the only variable with FUE is the judgement of the doctor and how that affects the number of hairs he takes out in any single area.

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

Hasson & Wong have been performing FUE for two years. Why anyone would go to them for FUE is beyond me.

"...with a good strip scar anyway (#2 buzz)."

That is only in the best case scenarios which is rare. The difference is that with strip scarring you can't control 100% how it's going to heal. With FUE you simply control how many grafts you take out in a specific area. So on one hand you have an uncontrollable variable due to donor tension that can't (or shouldn't) be guaranteed. On the other hand the only variable with FUE is the judgement of the doctor and how that affects the number of hairs he takes out in any single area.

Yeah we're talking about high graft counts with FUE though, the doctor has no choice but start pulling grafts close to eachother and close to the edges of where the guy is currently miniaturizing (seriously I see it all the time where they're pulling grafts within an inch of the current line of loss, way too close for comfort) if they want to get that many grafts without extreme "moth eaten" aesthetics in the donor. Plus then they are spreading fibrosis and scar tissue all throughout which makes subsequent successful procedures much harder.

And top FUT docs are very good at making small scars that hide under a #2 or #3 buzz. It's as much about the patients donor/laxity as it is surgeon skill/experience. It's the 2nd or 3rd strip where it becomes more unpredictable. Plus it's looking like regenerative medicine will be able to significantly or completely remove scar tissue in the not too distant future, something to keep in mind.

 

[MrHulley]

Yeah we're talking about high graft counts with FUE though, the doctor has no choice but start pulling grafts close to eachother and close to the edges of where the guy is currently miniaturizing (seriously I see it all the time where they're pulling grafts within an inch of the current line of loss, way too close for comfort) if they want to get that many grafts without extreme "moth eaten" aesthetics in the donor. Plus then they are spreading fibrosis and scar tissue all throughout which makes subsequent successful procedures much harder.

And top FUT docs are very good at making small scars that hide under a #2 or #3 buzz. It's as much about the patients donor/laxity as it is surgeon skill/experience. It's the 2nd or 3rd strip where it becomes more unpredictable. Plus it's looking like regenerative medicine will be able to significantly or completely remove scar tissue in the not too distant future, something to keep in mind.

I've yet to see a convincing body of of #2 and #3 buzzcuts from the best strip clinics. A few here and there doesn't count as being reliable to me. I also think the fibrosis is an unconfirmed theory by Dr. Feller regarding how much it affects the donor. But you kind of contradicted yourself with the last comment about how many strips you can get before the scarring is more unpredictable. If it gets more unpredictable in the 2nd and 3rd procedures this kind of reduces any advantages of getting more hair than what you can get with FUE, no?

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

I've yet to see a convincing body of of #2 and #3 buzzcuts from the best strip clinics. A few here and there doesn't count as being reliable to me. I also think the fibrosis is an unconfirmed theory by Dr. Feller regarding how much it affects the donor. But you kind of contradicted yourself with the last comment about how many strips you can get before the scarring is more unpredictable. If it gets more unpredictable in the 2nd and 3rd procedures this kind of reduces any advantages of getting more hair than what you can get with FUE, no?

I see them consistently from docs like Konior, Cooley, Gabel, etc. Scar is almost never an issue with them even after 4-5 months when it's still healing, if you don't know that then I'd suggest you keep researching, I must've read through hundreds of patient journals so far from just those guys FUT cases. Also we are talking about very short hair, I think most who opt for FUT wear the sides long enough that it doesn't matter. Seems to be a talking point of FUE fanboys that the strip scar is this horrific thing that almost always ends up huge and with permanent shock loss all around it and etc. Plus you can do FUE into the scar, SMP into it, etc.

.

 

[MrHulley]

I see them consistently from docs like Konior, Cooley, Gabel, etc. Scar is almost never an issue with them even after 4-5 months when it's still healing, if you don't know that then I'd suggest you keep researching, I must've read through hundreds of patient journals so far from just those guys FUT cases. Also we are talking about very short hair, I think most who opt for FUT wear the sides long enough that it doesn't matter. Seems to be a talking point of FUE fanboys that the strip scar is this horrific thing that almost always ends up huge and with permanent shock loss all around it and etc. Plus you can do FUE into the scar, SMP into it, etc.

Hundreds, huh? Right. Here's the thing about your research. You've not counted the ones that posted their bad results and then disappeared. Some had bad scarring, some had bad growth but that's another story. Yes, we're talking about very short hair with a #2 or #3 and I agree that most won't go that short but you're the one that brought that point up as if it's a regular occurrence that such short lengths are possible without seeing the strip scar. I say most don't go that short because they can't, not because they don't want to.

You said that it gets to be the second or third strip that makes the donor scar more unpredictable so if that's true why do you think stripping out first makes more sense if the second or more strips makes the healing unpredictable? I think that is why so many people don't want a strip because it's unpredictable and to strip out makes it more of a gamble than to go FUE first. I think FUE is better for a lot of guys and I don't think it's fair to demonize a procedure because some clinics are being reckless with it. If you are sensible with FUE, it's better than being sensible with strip, because no strip scar can be predicted but extraction patterns for FUE don't have an unpredictable scar factor and the extractions can be planned.

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

Hundreds, huh? Right. Here's the thing about your research. You've not counted the ones that posted their bad results and then disappeared. Some had bad scarring, some had bad growth but that's another story. Yes, we're talking about very short hair with a #2 or #3 and I agree that most won't go that short but you're the one that brought that point up as if it's a regular occurrence that such short lengths are possible without seeing the strip scar. I say most don't go that short because they can't, not because they don't want to.

You said that it gets to be the second or third strip that makes the donor scar more unpredictable so if that's true why do you think stripping out first makes more sense if the second or more strips makes the healing unpredictable? I think that is why so many people don't want a strip because it's unpredictable and to strip out makes it more of a gamble than to go FUE first. I think FUE is better for a lot of guys and I don't think it's fair to demonize a procedure because some clinics are being reckless with it. If you are sensible with FUE, it's better than being sensible with strip, because no strip scar can be predicted but extraction patterns for FUE don't have an unpredictable scar factor and the extractions can be planned.

Uhh no, see here's the thing(lol). I was referring to all cases I've found and read through so far, good and bad. Just so happens that bad results from those guys are very hard to find, their work is super clean both in the recipient and donor. Not saying they are perfect cause I'm sure they have unhappy patients, but yeah results are very consistent from what I've been able to find.

I've seen way more sub-par FUE results then strip (I get that a lot of that is sub par clinics with inexperienced techs doing the damage but FUE by its nature lends itself to bad results due to the skill/preciseness needed to safely extract/handle the grafts). Doctor choice is crucially important with FUE if you want a good result. The good candidates for FUE are guys with only hairline recession (no diffuse, no crown/vertex thinning) and no family history of more severe balding, so they can throw 1500-2000 at their receded hairline and move on with their life strip-scar free and little risk of needing large graft numbers later on.

FUE limits your life time donor supply which is the real limitation with it imo (if you theoretically equalize doctor skill and yield/quality for comparison's sake). Konior (who is very good at both strip and FUE and who's practice is about 50/50 for anyone who's unaware of him) told me that the way to max out lifetime donor is to do strip first and then FUE, the guy knows his sh*t so I'm inclined to believe him especially because his FUE prices are high and his results with it are very good. It's much easier and lucrative (in terms of grafts) to do FUT on a virgin scalp then one's that's been hammered by 5,000 FUE, and the other benefit of doing strip first is once you're done with that the rest of the leftover donor is just as dense as ever and is "virgin" for FUE even though you've already moved 6-8k grafts via strip. As opposed to FUE'ing yourself out then doing a big strip which is FUE'd out itself and doesn't yield much in the way of good grafts, so you're getting a big scar for not that much in return. Hence why it's the best route for a guy who seems destined for NW5 and beyond, get a ton of grafts moved then tap into FUE as needed from there.


Anyway, just because there's more risk of a slightly bigger scar in the 2nd or 3rd strip doesn't mean it's guaranteed or that it's enough to make a difference, we're talking about millimeters here. This is where a skilled surgeon is worth his weight in gold, they know how to judge the right size of the strips taken out to best avoid stretching after and they're god-like at sewing it all back up. Strip has been evolving over the years alongside FUE, it's not the same as it was a decade+ ago.

You also ignored how I said that most who get strip wear their hair long enough that it doesn't matter. I've found most of them have the attitude of "I'm paying all this money and going through all this sh*t so I have hair, why the hell would I shave most of it off after?". I know that super short sides with a long top is the current trend but it will change, think long term. Besides who wants to be a trend follower, that haircut is played out already, makes you look like a mindless sheep following the herd.

 

[MrHulley]

I see your points and I don't necessarily disagree with them but the issue about hair length, which you referred to as a point I ignored, isn't entirely correct in my opinion. The "trend" hasn't really changed in the past fifteen years. Some isolated trends like the hipster thing have actually allowed for a variety of lengths and styles, both buzzed, very long and a combination of the two as long as you have some ridiculous lumberjack beard, lol! I think we're at a time in social history that allows for multiple varieties of styles to be hip and cool and so far it seems to me that this is only getting to be more the case.

"Strip has been evolving over the years alongside FUE, it's not the same as it was a decade+ ago."

I don't see how it could. Experience can improve but the technique itself has nowhere to go.

How can Dr. Konior be doing 50/50 FUE and strip when there aren't any results for his FUE? I've spoken to a couple of people about this and through all of the forums there are maybe three or four results and there aren't any on his website, so how can anyone say he's very good in FUE like he is in strip? It's like saying Hasson is good with FUE when they've been bouncing around with how they do it since they started offering it two or three years ago. First the robot, then manual, and now I hear they are using motorized. To their credit they at least have a few results on their website. On the other side, it's like saying Dr. Bloxham is a fantastic choice for strip when he's still wet behind the ears and has only been a surgeon for two years.

Anyway, strip is what you want and I can't fault you for that because you have obviously been doing your research. Are you leaning toward Konior for your procedure?

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

I see your points and I don't necessarily disagree with them but the issue about hair length, which you referred to as a point I ignored, isn't entirely correct in my opinion. The "trend" hasn't really changed in the past fifteen years. Some isolated trends like the hipster thing have actually allowed for a variety of lengths and styles, both buzzed, very long and a combination of the two as long as you have some ridiculous lumberjack beard, lol! I think we're at a time in social history that allows for multiple varieties of styles to be hip and cool and so far it seems to me that this is only getting to be more the case.

"Strip has been evolving over the years alongside FUE, it's not the same as it was a decade+ ago."

I don't see how it could. Experience can improve but the technique itself has nowhere to go.

How can Dr. Konior be doing 50/50 FUE and strip when there aren't any results for his FUE? I've spoken to a couple of people about this and through all of the forums there are maybe three or four results and there aren't any on his website, so how can anyone say he's very good in FUE like he is in strip? It's like saying Hasson is good with FUE when they've been bouncing around with how they do it since they started offering it two or three years ago. First the robot, then manual, and now I hear they are using motorized. To their credit they at least have a few results on their website. On the other side, it's like saying Dr. Bloxham is a fantastic choice for strip when he's still wet behind the ears and has only been a surgeon for two years.

Anyway, strip is what you want and I can't fault you for that because you have obviously been doing your research. Are you leaning toward Konior for your procedure?

Lmao yeah the hipster trend is pretty ridiculous especially the #1 or even no guard all the way up the sides then like 7 inch hair on top, they look like some kind of exotic bird. I just think the classic Ryan Gosling style of cut will never go away where it's a little longer on top but not a drastic shift from top to sides. In any event it's the main downside with strip when you're in the hands of a top surgeon these days, gotta commit to a hairstyle that doesn't go below a #2 or 3 on the sides. Small price to pay for restored hair and a maxed out donor imo.

Apparently Konior has been doing FUE for awhile, like 10+ years if I'm remembering correctly. Just spitballing here but I think he'll do it if someone wants it and is a good candidate but doesn't advertise himself as a FUE surgeon, no idea why he doesn't cause the cases I've seen have turned out like his strip ones, maybe he doesn't like doing it or something lol. That 50/50 figure came from his office so I guess they could be lying. I know a guy irl who did a big FUT with Rahal then did a hairline lower with Konior FUE and it turned out great. I think part of it is how much of a perfectionist he is and how good his FUT are and that he does pretty much all the work himself, that rep carries over to his FUE. It is a good point about the lack of posted results around though. I'm considering him but the year long wait is pretty deterring, don't know if I want to wait that long. I'll see what the wait is like with Cooley and Gabel then make a decision since I'm confident in both of them as well.

 

[shookwun]

Lmao yeah the hipster trend is pretty ridiculous especially the #1 or even no guard all the way up the sides then like 7 inch hair on top, they look like some kind of exotic bird. I just think the classic Ryan Gosling style of cut will never go away where it's a little longer on top but not a drastic shift from top to sides. In any event it's the main downside with strip when you're in the hands of a top surgeon these days, gotta commit to a hairstyle that doesn't go below a #2 or 3 on the sides. Small price to pay for restored hair and a maxed out donor imo.

Apparently Konior has been doing FUE for awhile, like 10+ years if I'm remembering correctly. Just spitballing here but I think he'll do it if someone wants it and is a good candidate but doesn't advertise himself as a FUE surgeon, no idea why he doesn't cause the cases I've seen have turned out like his strip ones, maybe he doesn't like doing it or something lol. That 50/50 figure came from his office so I guess they could be lying. I know a guy irl who did a big FUT with Rahal then did a hairline lower with Konior FUE and it turned out great. I think part of it is how much of a perfectionist he is and how good his FUT are and that he does pretty much all the work himself, that rep carries over to his FUE. It is a good point about the lack of posted results around though. I'm considering him but the year long wait is pretty deterring, don't know if I want to wait that long. I'll see what the wait is like with Cooley and Gabel then make a decision since I'm confident in both of them as well.

Find Rahal's fut scar

My own personal experience

 

[MrHulley]

Lmao yeah the hipster trend is pretty ridiculous especially the #1 or even no guard all the way up the sides then like 7 inch hair on top, they look like some kind of exotic bird. I just think the classic Ryan Gosling style of cut will never go away where it's a little longer on top but not a drastic shift from top to sides. In any event it's the main downside with strip when you're in the hands of a top surgeon these days, gotta commit to a hairstyle that doesn't go below a #2 or 3 on the sides. Small price to pay for restored hair and a maxed out donor imo.

Apparently Konior has been doing FUE for awhile, like 10+ years if I'm remembering correctly. Just spitballing here but I think he'll do it if someone wants it and is a good candidate but doesn't advertise himself as a FUE surgeon, no idea why he doesn't cause the cases I've seen have turned out like his strip ones, maybe he doesn't like doing it or something lol. That 50/50 figure came from his office so I guess they could be lying. I know a guy irl who did a big FUT with Rahal then did a hairline lower with Konior FUE and it turned out great. I think part of it is how much of a perfectionist he is and how good his FUT are and that he does pretty much all the work himself, that rep carries over to his FUE. It is a good point about the lack of posted results around though. I'm considering him but the year long wait is pretty deterring, don't know if I want to wait that long. I'll see what the wait is like with Cooley and Gabel then make a decision since I'm confident in both of them as well.

For having been doing FUE for ten years, he's got sh*t for results. Where are they? I'd personally never consider anyone for FUE if all they show are strip results especially if they claim they've been doing it for ten years.