Head & Shoulders

[Temples]

Ahhh. Good ol' Head & Shoulders. The original.
I really like this stuff and was wondering if it
would be a good idea to rotate it with nizoral.

I've heard that using too many medicated poos
is not a good thing, but on the bottle it says to
use every day for maximum effectiveness. Isn't
this stuff pretty tame compared to other dandruff
poos?

I also see some folks with zinc in their regimens.
Could it be that Pyrithione zinc can help fight male pattern baldness
as well? I know there's no proof, just a theory.

Any takes?

 

[Old Baldy]

Temples: I could swear I read a study where the zinc pyr. in some dandruff shampoos HURT hair growth. But I can't find the da** study! Sorry.

Maybe it was part of a Nizoral type of study, so it could be a little suspect?

 

[too bald too furious]

Temples, head and shoulders did not work for me. I shed a lot of hairs when i shampood with it. Try it if you want, but i reckon nizoral and T-Gel/T-Sal and any other mild herbal shampoo like herbal essences is more than enough.
There are some real good thickening shampoos as well...so you got heaps of choice.
Good luck.

 

[marksb11]

For three months, I had a rotation of nizoral 2% and head and shoulders every other day. It killed my scalp. I stopped using the Head and Shoulders and my head hasn't been quite has itchy/inflamed since. Use the Nizoral and get somethign that is soothing, like a tea tree oil shampoo for the other days.

 

[Deaner]

Wow, weird. It's the opposite for me. I layed off the Nizoral, and am only using H&S every day, and my head is in great shape, shed is totally zero these days. It's amazing. I guess everybody's scalp is different!

 

[Wanker]

I think the one study compared the nizorol to H&S. They said nizorol increased hair count but head and shoulders had the opposite effect. This was some summary from the net. I always wondered if they just meant H&S had no postive effect so their hair count decreased as normal or it actually made hair fall out. Anyway thats when i stopped using it just in case.

 

[ACT10Npack]

I take Nizoral 2% every other day and I have no problem with it.

 

[Temples]

I would really like to see this study.

I also wonder if the active ingredients would conflict with each other since they both stay on the scalp after pooing.

 

[Old Baldy]

Found a mention of the study. Go to the bottom of the page to see a little discussion of the study.

http://www.thebaldtruth.com/products/nizoral.htm

 

[Temples]

Fascinating study. Thanks for posting, Old Baldy.

Forty-four ketoconazole users and forty-three zinc pyrithione users completed the 6 month study period. Analysis of the different parameters shows that the hair diameter gradually increases with chronic ketoconazole use (+8.46%) over a 6 month period, whereas the diameter shows a trend to decrease with zinc pyrithione use over the same period (-2.28%). The sebum excretion rate is reduced with ketoconazole (-6.54%) while it increases with zinc pyrithione (+8.2%) over the same period of time. The number of hair shed over a 24-hour period is reduced by 16.46% with ketoconazole and 6.02% with zinc pyrithione after 6 months. Finally, the percentage hairs in anagen phase increased by 6.4% and 8.4% respectively during the study time. Except for the percentage of hairs in anagen, which showed no difference between the two groups, all other parameters were significantly different in favor of the ketoconazole shampoo.

Interesting, because if you compare the numbers, zinc pyrithione had a slightly higher percentage of hairs in the anagen (growth) phase. Shedding was decreased more with ketoconazole, but isn't shedding usually a sign of regrowth? Aside from decreased hair diameter, it looks like zinc pyrithione is the winner.

I think there's benefits to using both provided that the two ingredients don't interfere with each other.

 

[incognito]

Damn, that is interesting. Now I am even more confused than before. This hairloss thing is so back and forth.

 

[Temples]

Just found some more interesting info on combining ketoconazole and zinc pyrithione from HairSite.com's U.S. Patent section:

http://www.pharmahg.co.uk/patent/main.htm

Scroll down to Patent #6,099,870. The asignee is Johnson & Johnson.

In addition, we have unexpectedly found that after using the hair diameter increasing agent for about 6 months in accordance with the process of the present invention, the diameter of the hair shafts in the treated area increased by up to a percentage of about 50 percent. Similarly, we have found that the oiliness of these treated areas also decreased by about 9% during this period. In view of these results, we have discovered a correlation between sebum excretion rate and hair diameter, i.e. that those who experienced a greater than 20% increase in hair diameter also experience about a 6% decrease in sebum excretion rate. Conversely, those who did not use the hair diameter increasing agent and who experienced about a 5% decrease in hair diameter also had about a 20% increase in scalp oiliness. We believe that the use of products which are capable of reducing the oil of the treated area, e.g. scalp, will also enhance the thickness of hair when used on a regular basis.

EXAMPLES

The following shampoos were used in the Examples below:

Shampoo A: a 1% ketoconazole shampoo available from Neutrogena Corporation under the tradename, "Long Lasting Dandruff Shampoo."

Shampoo B: a 1% zinc pyrithione shampoo available from the Procter & Gamble Company under the tradename, "New Head & Shoulders."

The following test methods were performed in the Examples below:

1) Pilary Index (% .mu.m): The pilary index was calculated as the product of the percent of anagen hair and the hair shaft diameter (.mu.m).

For the baseline assessment, hair samples were identified on the vertex area then plucked out with a rubber-tipped tweezer. The removed hair sample was placed under a microscope in order to count the hair strands and to identify the hair cycle stage for each respective strand, i.e. anagen (growing), telogen (ending), or catagen (resting). From these resulting trichograms the proportion of hairs in the anagen phase was obtained.

A computerized image analysis of the same hair samples was performed using a MOP Videoplan analyzer manufactured by Kontron GmbH in order to measure the average diameter of the hair shafts in accordance with the directions provided therewith.
By using a 3-point midline and facial coordinate system with nose tip, ear and fontanelle coordinates, precise relocation of the sample site was achieved for measurements taken after the baseline assessment.

2) Hair shedding: The amount of hairs shed was evaluated by a semi-luantitative count of the hairs collected immediately after the last shampoo usage by the subject, which typically was about 24 hours before a subject visited the laboratory for evaluation. The hairs were collected in a small transparent envelope and then compared with a series of similar reference envelopes kept at the laboratory. Each reference envelope contained a multiple of 10 hairs. The number of hairs shed in the subject's envelope was matched to a reference standard.

3) Sebum excretion (.mu.g/cm.sup.2 /hour): A sample site near the hairline was located using the above 3-point midline and facial coordinate system. One hour after cleaning the skin of the site with a 70% ethanol solution, the amount of sebum excreted at that area was measured by holding a probe of a computerized Model SM810 Courage sebumeter from Khazaka, (GmbH to the site until an excretion value was provided on the sebumeter.

Using the above-mentioned 3-point system, precise relocation of the sample site was achieved for measurements taken after the baseline assessment.

Example 1

Comparative Testing: Percent Hairs in Anagen Phase

Forty-four adult males who ranged in age from 18 to 65 years old, had mild to moderate dandruff, and had mild androgenic alopecia of the vertex, were assigned to shampoo 2 to 3 times per week with Shampoo A, and forty-three other males having the same characteristics were similarly assigned to shampoo with Shampoo B. Before beginning to shampoo with their assigned shampoo, the baseline pilary index value was calculated for each male. After 6 months of shampooing according to this regime, the pilary index value for each male was recalculated.

As evidenced in Table 1 below and in FIG. 1, both the ketoconazole-containing shampoo and the zinc pyrithione-containing shampoo beneficially improved the percent of anagen hairs by 8.3% and 10.3%, respectively.

 

[macdruid]

I think the one study compared the nizorol to H&S. They said nizorol increased hair count but head and shoulders had the opposite effect. This was some summary from the net. I always wondered if they just meant H&S had no postive effect so their hair count decreased as normal or it actually made hair fall out. Anyway thats when i stopped using it just in case.

Well, you know... back about 20 years ago or so, my aunt had clipped an article out of a mag where there was mention that H&S was believed to cause hair fall out if used long term. I guess she wanted to make sure I wasn't using it. I imagine they've changed the ingredients quite a bit since then, though.

 

[Guest]

Heres a couple more 1% pyrithione zinc shampoo trials

The effects of minoxidil, 1% pyrithione zinc and a combination of both on hair density: a randomized controlled trial

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2133.2003.05435.x/abs/

One percent PTZ shampoo increases hair density

http://www.dermatologytimes.com/dermatologytimes/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=18433

 

[Temples]

Conclusions Hair count results show a modest and sustained improvement in hair growth with daily use of a 1% pyrithione zinc shampoo over a 26-week treatment period.

In men using the 1 percent PTZ shampoo, hair counts were increased from baseline by 5.20 hairs/cm2 at nine weeks, and by 4.04 hairs/cm2 and 5.69 hairs/cm2 at 17 and 26 weeks, respectively. The changes in hair counts at nine and 26 weeks were significantly different compared with the group using placebo shampoo only. Changes from baseline in hair counts for the latter men at nine, 17 and 26 weeks were –1.29, 0.62, and –0.58 hairs/cm2, respectively.

The only downer is that there's no significant improvement with men using minoxidil and PTZ together:

Use of minoxidil alone had a little more than a two-fold greater benefit than 1 percent PTZ on increasing hair counts, and there was no added benefit for using minoxidil with 1 percent PTZ shampoo.

It seems that in study after study, 1% pyrithione zinc slightly outperforms ketoconazole. Am I missing something? Maybe some of the veterans can give us their takes.

 

[Deaner]

What's incredibly interesting is that they compared 1% PTZ to 5% minoxidil, whereas 2% ketoconazole was compared to 2% minoxidil. And the H&S still came within 50% of the performance of 5% minoxidil. How well would it have performed versus the 2%? 80-100%?

From this, I'm gonna go ahead and take the stand that I'm sticking with Head & Shoulders from here on in, and giving up entirely on Nizoral for good. Nizoral makes my hair feel like garbage, doesn't get rid of my flaking, and it's crazy expensive (double the price for 1/4 of the amount of H&S).

 

[Bismarck]

What's incredibly interesting is that they compared 1% PTZ to 5% minoxidil, whereas 2% ketoconazole was compared to 2% minoxidil. And the H&S still came within 50% of the performance of 5% minoxidil. How well would it have performed versus the 2%? 80-100%?

From this, I'm gonna go ahead and take the stand that I'm sticking with Head & Shoulders from here on in, and giving up entirely on Nizoral for good. Nizoral makes my hair feel like garbage, doesn't get rid of my flaking, and it's crazy expensive (double the price for 1/4 of the amount of H&S).

I thought you were shedding because of H&S ???

 

[Deaner]

Another terrible joke Bismarck?

 

[misterium]

Interesting... sounds positive.

I'm going to add H&S to my rotation.

 

[hoping]

so wait h & s is good in your regimen? right now i use nizoral 2% and nioxin cleanser. if i used h&s every other day would that be good? or not even worth it?