HOW does DHT cause cancer?

[HARM1]

DHT does not cause cancer.
Finasteride and other 5alpha blockers are being studied right now to prevent prostate cancer, but there has not been any definitive data released from those results. Prostate cancer occurs because as men age their prostate grows. Whenever cells divide they have a higher rate of mutation. These mutations tend to lead to cancer. DHT is a known trophic hormone of the prostate, thus why its being looked at to prevent prostate cancer

D

Are you saying that DHT only increases the chance for fancer because of more cell dividing ?
again, how do you respond to the fact that men with no or very little DHT in their prostate, never get prostate cancer?

You sort of explained it to yourself. No DHT means no hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no accumulation of mutation. No accumulation of mutation means no cancer.

Hello friend ! Could you show me that this is what the medical world belives in ?
I don't get a few things:
With no dht or very little dht prostate prostate cell still duplicate, no? So cancer can still happen. maybe in a much less chance, but still a chance. maybe because of the low rate, then is is belived that this people never get it.
what do you say?

Increased circulating estrogens due to obesity are one cause and any disease process that increases insulin levels as insulin has affinity for the IGF-1 receptor on prostate cells. Also, high energy and protein intake has also been assoicated with BPH.

So, there are numerous other causes for BPH and then prostate cancer to occur.

that's right, and who the hell knows, maybe just a mistake in the DNA. So how could this be that both people with no 5ar2 and people with bad androgen receptors--> NO DHT do not get prostte cancer. how ?!

 

[docj077]

[quote="maddoc23":0d61b]DHT does not cause cancer.
Finasteride and other 5alpha blockers are being studied right now to prevent prostate cancer, but there has not been any definitive data released from those results. Prostate cancer occurs because as men age their prostate grows. Whenever cells divide they have a higher rate of mutation. These mutations tend to lead to cancer. DHT is a known trophic hormone of the prostate, thus why its being looked at to prevent prostate cancer

D

Are you saying that DHT only increases the chance for fancer because of more cell dividing ?
again, how do you respond to the fact that men with no or very little DHT in their prostate, never get prostate cancer?

You sort of explained it to yourself. No DHT means no hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no accumulation of mutation. No accumulation of mutation means no cancer.

Hello friend ! Could you show me that this is what the medical world belives in ?
I don't get a few things:
With no dht or very little dht prostate prostate cell still duplicate, no? So cancer can still happen. maybe in a much less chance, but still a chance. maybe because of the low rate, then is is belived that this people never get it.
what do you say?

Increased circulating estrogens due to obesity are one cause and any disease process that increases insulin levels as insulin has affinity for the IGF-1 receptor on prostate cells. Also, high energy and protein intake has also been assoicated with BPH.

So, there are numerous other causes for BPH and then prostate cancer to occur.

that's right, and who the hell knows, maybe just a mistake in the DNA. So how could this be that both people with no 5ar2 and people with bad androgen receptors--> NO DHT do not get prostte cancer. how ?![/quote:0d61b]

DHT in a male predisposed to prostate cancer is necessary for the development of prostate hyperplasia. No DHT, means no hyperplasia. No androgen receptors means no DHT binding and causing its intracellular effects, so again, no prostate hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no cancer later on down the line.

EDIT: I think I know what you're getting at, but it's complicated and I don't even think modern science knows how to explain it. I believe that DHT is required at least to some extent in the process that causes the development of prostate hyperplasia. So, it doesn't matter what other factors you're exposed to as it's very likely that DHT is the initial step in the cascade that makes cells susceptible to damage and proliferation.

 

[HARM1]

[quote="HARM1":4e215][quote="maddoc23":4e215]DHT does not cause cancer.
Finasteride and other 5alpha blockers are being studied right now to prevent prostate cancer, but there has not been any definitive data released from those results. Prostate cancer occurs because as men age their prostate grows. Whenever cells divide they have a higher rate of mutation. These mutations tend to lead to cancer. DHT is a known trophic hormone of the prostate, thus why its being looked at to prevent prostate cancer

D

Are you saying that DHT only increases the chance for fancer because of more cell dividing ?
again, how do you respond to the fact that men with no or very little DHT in their prostate, never get prostate cancer?

You sort of explained it to yourself. No DHT means no hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no accumulation of mutation. No accumulation of mutation means no cancer.

Hello friend ! Could you show me that this is what the medical world belives in ?
I don't get a few things:
With no dht or very little dht prostate prostate cell still duplicate, no? So cancer can still happen. maybe in a much less chance, but still a chance. maybe because of the low rate, then is is belived that this people never get it.
what do you say?

Increased circulating estrogens due to obesity are one cause and any disease process that increases insulin levels as insulin has affinity for the IGF-1 receptor on prostate cells. Also, high energy and protein intake has also been assoicated with BPH.

So, there are numerous other causes for BPH and then prostate cancer to occur.

that's right, and who the hell knows, maybe just a mistake in the DNA. So how could this be that both people with no 5ar2 and people with bad androgen receptors--> NO DHT do not get prostte cancer. how ?![/quote:4e215]

DHT in a male predisposed to prostate cancer is necessary for the development of prostate hyperplasia. No DHT, means no hyperplasia. No androgen receptors means no DHT binding and causing its intracellular effects, so again, no prostate hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no cancer later on down the line.

EDIT: I think I know what you're getting at, but it's complicated and I don't even think modern science knows how to explain it. I believe that DHT is required at least to some extent in the process that causes the development of prostate hyperplasia. So, it doesn't matter what other factors you're exposed to as it's very likely that DHT is the initial step in the cascade that makes cells susceptible to damage and proliferation.[/quote:4e215]
With no or very little DHT is there still a normal growing prostate?

 

[docj077]

[quote="docj077":5b636][quote="HARM1":5b636][quote="maddoc23":5b636]DHT does not cause cancer.
Finasteride and other 5alpha blockers are being studied right now to prevent prostate cancer, but there has not been any definitive data released from those results. Prostate cancer occurs because as men age their prostate grows. Whenever cells divide they have a higher rate of mutation. These mutations tend to lead to cancer. DHT is a known trophic hormone of the prostate, thus why its being looked at to prevent prostate cancer

D

Are you saying that DHT only increases the chance for fancer because of more cell dividing ?
again, how do you respond to the fact that men with no or very little DHT in their prostate, never get prostate cancer?

You sort of explained it to yourself. No DHT means no hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no accumulation of mutation. No accumulation of mutation means no cancer.

Hello friend ! Could you show me that this is what the medical world belives in ?
I don't get a few things:
With no dht or very little dht prostate prostate cell still duplicate, no? So cancer can still happen. maybe in a much less chance, but still a chance. maybe because of the low rate, then is is belived that this people never get it.
what do you say?

Increased circulating estrogens due to obesity are one cause and any disease process that increases insulin levels as insulin has affinity for the IGF-1 receptor on prostate cells. Also, high energy and protein intake has also been assoicated with BPH.

So, there are numerous other causes for BPH and then prostate cancer to occur.

that's right, and who the hell knows, maybe just a mistake in the DNA. So how could this be that both people with no 5ar2 and people with bad androgen receptors--> NO DHT do not get prostte cancer. how ?![/quote:5b636]

DHT in a male predisposed to prostate cancer is necessary for the development of prostate hyperplasia. No DHT, means no hyperplasia. No androgen receptors means no DHT binding and causing its intracellular effects, so again, no prostate hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no cancer later on down the line.

EDIT: I think I know what you're getting at, but it's complicated and I don't even think modern science knows how to explain it. I believe that DHT is required at least to some extent in the process that causes the development of prostate hyperplasia. So, it doesn't matter what other factors you're exposed to as it's very likely that DHT is the initial step in the cascade that makes cells susceptible to damage and proliferation.[/quote:5b636]
With no or very little DHT is there still a normal growing prostate?[/quote:5b636]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.

 

[HARM1]

[quote="HARM1":70f79][quote="docj077":70f79][quote="HARM1":70f79][quote="maddoc23":70f79]DHT does not cause cancer.
Finasteride and other 5alpha blockers are being studied right now to prevent prostate cancer, but there has not been any definitive data released from those results. Prostate cancer occurs because as men age their prostate grows. Whenever cells divide they have a higher rate of mutation. These mutations tend to lead to cancer. DHT is a known trophic hormone of the prostate, thus why its being looked at to prevent prostate cancer

D

Are you saying that DHT only increases the chance for fancer because of more cell dividing ?
again, how do you respond to the fact that men with no or very little DHT in their prostate, never get prostate cancer?

You sort of explained it to yourself. No DHT means no hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no accumulation of mutation. No accumulation of mutation means no cancer.

Hello friend ! Could you show me that this is what the medical world belives in ?
I don't get a few things:
With no dht or very little dht prostate prostate cell still duplicate, no? So cancer can still happen. maybe in a much less chance, but still a chance. maybe because of the low rate, then is is belived that this people never get it.
what do you say?

Increased circulating estrogens due to obesity are one cause and any disease process that increases insulin levels as insulin has affinity for the IGF-1 receptor on prostate cells. Also, high energy and protein intake has also been assoicated with BPH.

So, there are numerous other causes for BPH and then prostate cancer to occur.

that's right, and who the hell knows, maybe just a mistake in the DNA. So how could this be that both people with no 5ar2 and people with bad androgen receptors--> NO DHT do not get prostte cancer. how ?![/quote:70f79]

DHT in a male predisposed to prostate cancer is necessary for the development of prostate hyperplasia. No DHT, means no hyperplasia. No androgen receptors means no DHT binding and causing its intracellular effects, so again, no prostate hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no cancer later on down the line.

EDIT: I think I know what you're getting at, but it's complicated and I don't even think modern science knows how to explain it. I believe that DHT is required at least to some extent in the process that causes the development of prostate hyperplasia. So, it doesn't matter what other factors you're exposed to as it's very likely that DHT is the initial step in the cascade that makes cells susceptible to damage and proliferation.[/quote:70f79]
With no or very little DHT is there still a normal growing prostate?[/quote:70f79]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.[/quote:70f79]
So I ask you this, while a cell in a no dht prostate divedes, it could get cancers, right? I mean .just on mistake in the incoding of the new cell would be enoguh. CORRECT?

 

[docj077]

[quote="docj077":e6385][quote="HARM1":e6385][quote="docj077":e6385][quote="HARM1":e6385][quote="maddoc23":e6385]DHT does not cause cancer.
Finasteride and other 5alpha blockers are being studied right now to prevent prostate cancer, but there has not been any definitive data released from those results. Prostate cancer occurs because as men age their prostate grows. Whenever cells divide they have a higher rate of mutation. These mutations tend to lead to cancer. DHT is a known trophic hormone of the prostate, thus why its being looked at to prevent prostate cancer

D

Are you saying that DHT only increases the chance for fancer because of more cell dividing ?
again, how do you respond to the fact that men with no or very little DHT in their prostate, never get prostate cancer?

You sort of explained it to yourself. No DHT means no hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no accumulation of mutation. No accumulation of mutation means no cancer.

Hello friend ! Could you show me that this is what the medical world belives in ?
I don't get a few things:
With no dht or very little dht prostate prostate cell still duplicate, no? So cancer can still happen. maybe in a much less chance, but still a chance. maybe because of the low rate, then is is belived that this people never get it.
what do you say?

Increased circulating estrogens due to obesity are one cause and any disease process that increases insulin levels as insulin has affinity for the IGF-1 receptor on prostate cells. Also, high energy and protein intake has also been assoicated with BPH.

So, there are numerous other causes for BPH and then prostate cancer to occur.

that's right, and who the hell knows, maybe just a mistake in the DNA. So how could this be that both people with no 5ar2 and people with bad androgen receptors--> NO DHT do not get prostte cancer. how ?![/quote:e6385]

DHT in a male predisposed to prostate cancer is necessary for the development of prostate hyperplasia. No DHT, means no hyperplasia. No androgen receptors means no DHT binding and causing its intracellular effects, so again, no prostate hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no cancer later on down the line.

EDIT: I think I know what you're getting at, but it's complicated and I don't even think modern science knows how to explain it. I believe that DHT is required at least to some extent in the process that causes the development of prostate hyperplasia. So, it doesn't matter what other factors you're exposed to as it's very likely that DHT is the initial step in the cascade that makes cells susceptible to damage and proliferation.[/quote:e6385]
With no or very little DHT is there still a normal growing prostate?[/quote:e6385]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.[/quote:e6385]
So I ask you this, while a cell in a no dht prostate divedes, it could get cancers, right? I mean .just on mistake in the incoding of the new cell would be enoguh. CORRECT?[/quote:e6385]

Well, it would probably need a reason for being cancerous. A dividing cell divides normally unless it has enough mutation to transform. I don't think a prostate cell that has never been exposed to DHT could turn cancerous as it would not have a signal to proliferate enough times to accumulate mutation.

I just think it would be medically impossible barring another outside growth signal, but I don't think any signal would be as powerful as DHT.

 

[HARM1]

[quote="HARM1":aa443][quote="docj077":aa443][quote="HARM1":aa443][quote="docj077":aa443][quote="HARM1":aa443][quote="maddoc23":aa443]DHT does not cause cancer.
Finasteride and other 5alpha blockers are being studied right now to prevent prostate cancer, but there has not been any definitive data released from those results. Prostate cancer occurs because as men age their prostate grows. Whenever cells divide they have a higher rate of mutation. These mutations tend to lead to cancer. DHT is a known trophic hormone of the prostate, thus why its being looked at to prevent prostate cancer

D

Are you saying that DHT only increases the chance for fancer because of more cell dividing ?
again, how do you respond to the fact that men with no or very little DHT in their prostate, never get prostate cancer?

You sort of explained it to yourself. No DHT means no hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no accumulation of mutation. No accumulation of mutation means no cancer.

Hello friend ! Could you show me that this is what the medical world belives in ?
I don't get a few things:
With no dht or very little dht prostate prostate cell still duplicate, no? So cancer can still happen. maybe in a much less chance, but still a chance. maybe because of the low rate, then is is belived that this people never get it.
what do you say?

Increased circulating estrogens due to obesity are one cause and any disease process that increases insulin levels as insulin has affinity for the IGF-1 receptor on prostate cells. Also, high energy and protein intake has also been assoicated with BPH.

So, there are numerous other causes for BPH and then prostate cancer to occur.

that's right, and who the hell knows, maybe just a mistake in the DNA. So how could this be that both people with no 5ar2 and people with bad androgen receptors--> NO DHT do not get prostte cancer. how ?![/quote:aa443]

DHT in a male predisposed to prostate cancer is necessary for the development of prostate hyperplasia. No DHT, means no hyperplasia. No androgen receptors means no DHT binding and causing its intracellular effects, so again, no prostate hyperplasia. No hyperplasia means no cancer later on down the line.

EDIT: I think I know what you're getting at, but it's complicated and I don't even think modern science knows how to explain it. I believe that DHT is required at least to some extent in the process that causes the development of prostate hyperplasia. So, it doesn't matter what other factors you're exposed to as it's very likely that DHT is the initial step in the cascade that makes cells susceptible to damage and proliferation.[/quote:aa443]
With no or very little DHT is there still a normal growing prostate?[/quote:aa443]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.[/quote:aa443]
So I ask you this, while a cell in a no dht prostate divedes, it could get cancers, right? I mean .just on mistake in the incoding of the new cell would be enoguh. CORRECT?[/quote:aa443]

Well, it would probably need a reason for being cancerous. A dividing cell divides normally unless it has enough mutation to transform. I don't think a prostate cell that has never been exposed to DHT could turn cancerous as it would not have a signal to proliferate enough times to accumulate mutation.

I just think it would be medically impossible barring another outside growth signal, but I don't think any signal would be as powerful as DHT.[/quote:aa443]
You don't think, that in a life time, a cell would have a chance to accumulate enough mutations?
And maybe just an old mutation or a defective gene in the cell, they to could lead to a cancers cell.

 

[Bryan]

Jesus Herbert Christ! Everybody please learn how to snip your posts, and take it easy on quoting previous posts!!

 

[HARM1]

Jesus Herbert Christ! Everybody please learn how to snip your posts, and take it easy on quoting previous posts!!

LOL, OK. But help us out with this issue plz

 

[abcdefg]

I think its a pretty safe bet that no one knows. You would need to ask some cancer researcher to get a good understanding of the complexities of how DHT actually causes cancer. We probably dont understand how it happens completely because last I knew cancer still kills lots of people.

 

[buzzmenot]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.

docjo, does this mean that predesposed individuals suddenly expose themselves to a DHT influx in the prostate on stopping propecia and have a super high chance of getting prostate cancer since the receptors increase due to years on propecia?

also why do the receptors only increase in the prostate and not in the hair folicles?

 

[HARM1]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.

docjo, does this mean that predesposed individuals suddenly expose themselves to a DHT influx in the prostate on stopping propecia and have a super high chance of getting prostate cancer since the receptors increase due to years on propecia?

also why do the receptors only increase in the prostate and not in the hair folicles?

Yes i do think that is the reality of things. The body has feedback mechanisim , it raises receptores evrywhere that it gets less dht, one should think. probbly also makes more dht too, and so it would be a bad idea to just stop finasteride at once.
I do not no why this issue isn't being disscused more. IT SHOULD BE.

 

[maddoc23]

DHT does not cause cancer. DHT causes prostate growth, but DHT is not carcinogenic. Smoking is carcinogenic, alcohol is carcinogenic but DHT is NOT. Prostate cancer peaks in your older years because eventually you will have developed enough mutations in your prostate to cause cancer. The more something divides the higher chance mutations develop. People without DHT can still get cancer, but are at lower risk simply because there is less division going on. The real question you should ask yourself is does taking finasteride or other 5AR blockers REDUCE your risk of prostate cancer. These trials are currently underway to answer that question.

I think the real problem on this board is that most people don't realize there is a BIG DIFFERENCE going from mechanisms of action (how things work) to actual clinical effectiveness. For example, you'll read a study that says fish oil blocks DHT, so the very next day you start using it, but you have no idea if it helps for male pattern baldness. Saw Palmetto blocks DHT but has been shown to not help with BPH.

D

 

[docj077]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.

docjo, does this mean that predesposed individuals suddenly expose themselves to a DHT influx in the prostate on stopping propecia and have a super high chance of getting prostate cancer since the receptors increase due to years on propecia?

also why do the receptors only increase in the prostate and not in the hair folicles?

Yes i do think that is the reality of things. The body has feedback mechanisim , it raises receptores evrywhere that it gets less dht, one should think. probbly also makes more dht too, and so it would be a bad idea to just stop finasteride at once.
I do not no why this issue isn't being disscused more. IT SHOULD BE.

The science makes sense, but we'll see what happens in 10-15 years. If studies start showing everyone who was formerly on finasteride. getting prostate cancer, then we'll know that we were right.

Like someone else said, DHT is not a carcinogen. However, it is the main cause of prostatic hyperplasia, which leads to the mutations necessary for the formation of cancer.

 

[HARM1]

DHT does not cause cancer. DHT causes prostate growth, but DHT is not carcinogenic. Smoking is carcinogenic, alcohol is carcinogenic but DHT is NOT. Prostate cancer peaks in your older years because eventually you will have developed enough mutations in your prostate to cause cancer. The more something divides the higher chance mutations develop. People without DHT can still get cancer, but are at lower risk simply because there is less division going on. The real question you should ask yourself is does taking finasteride or other 5AR blockers REDUCE your risk of prostate cancer. These trials are currently underway to answer that question.

I think the real problem on this board is that most people don't realize there is a BIG DIFFERENCE going from mechanisms of action (how things work) to actual clinical effectiveness. For example, you'll read a study that says fish oil blocks DHT, so the very next day you start using it, but you have no idea if it helps for male pattern baldness. Saw Palmetto blocks DHT but has been shown to not help with BPH.

D

Hey, I agree with you. But if this were true, then how is it that bryan says that poeple with low, pr very little DHT never get prostate cancer?

 

[Felk]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.

docjo, does this mean that predesposed individuals suddenly expose themselves to a DHT influx in the prostate on stopping propecia and have a super high chance of getting prostate cancer since the receptors increase due to years on propecia?

also why do the receptors only increase in the prostate and not in the hair folicles?

Yes i do think that is the reality of things. The body has feedback mechanisim , it raises receptores evrywhere that it gets less dht, one should think. probbly also makes more dht too, and so it would be a bad idea to just stop finasteride at once.
I do not no why this issue isn't being disscused more. IT SHOULD BE.

It has been, just not recently. At alt.baldspot Dr Proctor was apparently always warning people that they should "taper off" drugs like finasteride. or dutasteride. as to avoid a hyperandrogenic response.

 

[HARM1]

Well, not necessarily normal growing. It's smaller and seems very prone to prostatitis. With no DHT the number of androgen receptors in the prostate actually increase in the prostate tissue.

docjo, does this mean that predesposed individuals suddenly expose themselves to a DHT influx in the prostate on stopping propecia and have a super high chance of getting prostate cancer since the receptors increase due to years on propecia?

also why do the receptors only increase in the prostate and not in the hair folicles?

Yes i do think that is the reality of things. The body has feedback mechanisim , it raises receptores evrywhere that it gets less dht, one should think. probbly also makes more dht too, and so it would be a bad idea to just stop finasteride at once.
I do not no why this issue isn't being disscused more. IT SHOULD BE.

It has been, just not recently. At alt.baldspot Dr Proctor was apparently always warning people that they should "taper off" drugs like finasteride. or dutasteride. as to avoid a hyperandrogenic response.

There are no insturctions on how to do that, and I don't understand merck - they should post a warning on this, or they can be open to law suits..