How Is This Regime Not Saving My Temples?

[Plan C]

Hi all,

I'm 23 and used to regularly post on the forums. For the past two years, I've been using the below regime:

- 0.5mg dutasteride every day
- 85mg RU58841 in 0.5ml PG & 1.25ml ethanol every other day
- 15% minoxidil (w/ azelaic acid 1.5%, finasteride 0.1%, retinoic acid 0.025%, progesterone 0.25%, hydrocortisone 0.1% and biotin 3%) every other day
- 1.5mm derma roller once a month

This has maintained excellent density but the receding at my temples has continued (albeit at a much slower rate).

I recognise that this is a fairly hardcore regime but could it benefit from any changes (e.g. the addition of S5 cream)?

Are there any glaring errors (perhaps with the formulation of the RU solution)?

I use minoxidil and RU on alternate days as I don't have time in the evening to apply both.

 

[kj6723]

I use minoxidil and RU on alternate days as I don't have time in the evening to apply both.

My understanding with RU is due to the short half life ideally it should be applied 2x a day

minoxidil should be applied AT LEAST 1x a day

Maybe consider combining the RU with minoxidil in 1 solution? Lots of people here do that

 

[Plan C]

Hi,

Thanks for the prompt response. I agree that I need to find a way to apply one - or both - every day. Unfortunately, RU won't mix with the 15% minoxidil compound I use, which is virtually a cream.

I think that my options are:
- Mix RU in a 5% minoxidil solution every day and drop the 15% minoxidil compound
- Drop RU and use the 15% minoxidil compound every day

Not an easy choice.

 

[pizzamanluigi]

I thought 15% minoxidil was no better than 5%, could be wrong though.

 

[IdealForehead]

I thought 15% minoxidil was no better than 5%, could be wrong though.

The challenge with 15% minoxidil is getting it into an effect vehicle. The maximum you can get out of a standard vehicle like propylene glycol, ethanol, and water is 5%.

So to do 15% you need to supersaturate it (heat it and then cool it down) which will lead to the extra crystallizing back out over time.

Or you have to have a cream made up by a proper compounding pharmacy that knows how.

Belgravia Clinic is a big user of high strength minoxidil creams at the temples and they get great results.

Oral minoxidil also leads to greater delivery to the follicles which is why people find they get faster/better results that way.

5% minoxidil is just what's easiest to make/sell. More is better. But also more side effects (potentially).

 

[IdealForehead]

Hi all,

I'm 23 and used to regularly post on the forums. For the past two years, I've been using the below regime:

- 0.5mg dutasteride every day
- 85mg RU58841 in 0.5ml PG & 1.25ml ethanol every other day
- 15% minoxidil (w/ azelaic acid 1.5%, finasteride 0.1%, retinoic acid 0.025%, progesterone 0.25%, hydrocortisone 0.1% and biotin 3%) every other day
- 1.5mm derma roller once a month

This has maintained excellent density but the receding at my temples has continued (albeit at a much slower rate).

I recognise that this is a fairly hardcore regime but could it benefit from any changes (e.g. the addition of S5 cream)?

Are there any glaring errors (perhaps with the formulation of the RU solution)?

I use minoxidil and RU on alternate days as I don't have time in the evening to apply both.

That's a really good regimen. I like it a lot. Kudos on a well rounded approach.

If you are still receding, your most reasonable options are:

1) Add an antihistamine to your topical (eg. 1% desloratadine), and/or
2) Change RU to a stronger antiandrogen.

If you are getting your 15% minoxidil legit compounded, you could have them compound in the 1% desloratadine. Or a bit of something like bicalutamide, or nilutamide. Not flutamide since it's a prodrug. Ideally, darolutamide is the best agent for this (in my opinion) since it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, but it's not on the market yet formally.

If that doesn't do it, your last option would be to add some estriol to your cream, but I would save that for last.

I would also drop the progesterone. Progesterones can have some androgenic properties I believe and I'm not aware of any good evidence for them supporting hair growth. Am I wrong? Subbing that for a tiny dose (1-2 mg max per application) of estriol would make more sense to me.

Lastly I agree it's ideal to just have one single topical consolidated agent in addition to your oral dutasteride. I would try to fortify your 15% minoxidil cream to be this agent. Then apply it twice daily.

Really liked your post/question! It's rare to get interesting regimens on here... That was fun to think about. Post back if you have any counter thoughts or want to brainstorm more. If so, clarify where/how you are getting your minoxidil cream as this will clarify how much you can modify it.

 

[Plan C]

That's a really good regimen. I like it a lot. Kudos on a well rounded approach.

If you are still receding, your most reasonable options are:

1) Add an antihistamine to your topical (eg. 1% desloratadine), and/or
2) Change RU to a stronger antiandrogen.

If you are getting your 15% minoxidil legit compounded, you could have them compound in the 1% desloratadine. Or a bit of something like bicalutamide, or nilutamide. Not flutamide since it's a prodrug. Ideally, darolutamide is the best agent for this (in my opinion) since it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, but it's not on the market yet formally.

If that doesn't do it, your last option would be to add some estriol to your cream, but I would save that for last.

I would also drop the progesterone. Progesterones can have some androgenic properties I believe and I'm not aware of any good evidence for them supporting hair growth. Am I wrong? Subbing that for a tiny dose (1-2 mg max per application) of estriol would make more sense to me.

Lastly I agree it's ideal to just have one single topical consolidated agent in addition to your oral dutasteride. I would try to fortify your 15% minoxidil cream to be this agent. Then apply it twice daily.

Really liked your post/question! It's rare to get interesting regimens on here... That was fun to think about. Post back if you have any counter thoughts or want to brainstorm more. If so, clarify where/how you are getting your minoxidil cream as this will clarify how much you can modify it.

Really appreciate the comprehensive response; thank you.

I buy my minoxidil solution from Murray Avenue Apothecary in the US. The formula is identical to Promox, which doesn't ship to the UK. Therefore, many UK-based forum members buy from MAA instead, who specialise in compounding.

I think that my key error is only applying minoxidil and RU on alternate days. I believe that Promox is intended for use 4 times a day, and RU has a short half life, therefore I'm not getting proper benefits from either treatment.

The point that you made about oral minoxidil is an interesting one. From my previous stints on the forums, I was of the belief that it was dangerous to consume?

On minoxidil vehicles, I notice that you mentioned a standard combination is propylene glycol, ethanol, and water. I wonder if I should be using water with the pg/ethanol solution that I currently dissolve my RU in?

It also dawned on me that the concentration of my RU solution is only 4.8%. If I reduced the solution amount from 1.75ml to 1ml, but continued to use 85mg RU, this would rise to 8.5%. Would this improve the efficacy, or is it the mg amount of RU that determines the efficacy?

Thanks again. I will ask MAA if they are prepared to make the formula amendments that you suggested.

 

[Bagels]

Hi all,

I'm 23 and used to regularly post on the forums. For the past two years, I've been using the below regime:

- 0.5mg dutasteride every day
- 85mg RU58841 in 0.5ml PG & 1.25ml ethanol every other day
- 15% minoxidil (w/ azelaic acid 1.5%, finasteride 0.1%, retinoic acid 0.025%, progesterone 0.25%, hydrocortisone 0.1% and biotin 3%) every other day
- 1.5mm derma roller once a month

This has maintained excellent density but the receding at my temples has continued (albeit at a much slower rate).

I recognise that this is a fairly hardcore regime but could it benefit from any changes (e.g. the addition of S5 cream)?

Are there any glaring errors (perhaps with the formulation of the RU solution)?

I use minoxidil and RU on alternate days as I don't have time in the evening to apply both.

any updates?

where are you sourcing that minoxidil solution with all the stuff added to it