I dare any1 to challenge this theory of how hairloss happens

G

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I belive that it has to do with the placement of the follicles in the scalp and physical space.

The culprit - Follicle placement and physical space.
The actors - DHT and sebum.
The end - Fibroblasts.
The waste - Topical DHT inhibition.
The joker - Topical fibroblast inhibition.

Finally minoxidil - why it works.

Start: We get born and the body develops, follicles are placed and hair grows thanks to the direct or indirect effect of androgens. As we hit puberty the physical space of the scalp is more or less "fixed".

This is when the problem starts - puberty. The increased secretion of androgens lead to an excess production of Sebum and start of our problems. Sebum could be a buildingblock or a trigger for hairgrowth but when in excess amounts it cloggs up the scalp leading to increased pressure - this leads to decreased scalpflow.

What then can´t flow? well it could be blood, it could be lymph I really don´t know. What I´m really suspecting is that the decreased flow leads to pressure buildup and eventually cellular death beacuse of physical pressure.

What supports this? Well 1) Scalp pain and itch - inflammation 2) Greasy scalp - Excess sebum.

First problem:

What about transplanted hairs? Well as we all know even transplanted hairs tend to follow the path of original hair but it´s pretty safe to assume that if you had 100 follicles producing sebum in 1square cm (this nr is totally fictional) and instead have 10 follicles much less sebum will be produced and less physicla pressure. Of course there will be the collagen and the scartissue but still it´s less then originally.

Second problem:

What about the DHT inscensitive hair? I don´t belive there is any DHT inscensitive hair. I belive that the sides and the back of your head have much better cirkulation and the follicles are further apart - there is never an equally strong pressure buildup.

Third problem:

finasteride helps which means DHT is EVIL. Well too much DHT in a tight scalp will via sebum cause an inflammation that kills your follicles but without DHT your hair will go limp. Did you ever consider the random sheds? well my friends could is it a coincidence that just when things feel great one hell of a shed hits - it´s because the follicles can´t hold onto the hair when the level of DHT hits rock bottom. Any other shed explanation is just fiction.

Topicals help: If you had a topical that would alter the level of sebum so it matched the physical space of your scalp then yes topicals work - so far the topicals we have DON´T WORK. Ok they could work but it´s like winning the lottery because you have to match the application of the topical with the peak DHT production and then the level has to drop so you get an amount of DHT that is needed for hairgrowth.

Fourth problem:

How can women have hair if they have no DHT? Well how the hell should I know. Maybe, just maybe it´s the effect of female sexhormones. Women are different then men in many ways and why a direct parallel should be drawn is just beyond me.

Finally I will get into why minoxidil works and some other issues.

minoxidil works by increasing scalp cirkulation - thus taking away some pressure and letting the follicles work. Easy? yepp. Will minoxidil work with everyone? well yes. It will but consider this. If sebum causes an 200% increase in scalp pressure (again fictional figure) and minoxidil will increase cirkulation by 50% then you still have 150% excess and you will see no difference. So it´s all about physical space.

Does this happen anywhere else in the body? Consider what happens if the duct leading from the pancrease to the duodenum is restricted. The backward flow of pancreatic juice will cause an inflammed pancreas and cellular death. The same goes with the liver if the hepatic duct is restricted - backward flow, increased pressure and cellular death.

Fibroblasts. They lay down a carpet of collagen which can´t be removed, like any scar tissue it will be reduced with time but never completely and once you have scar tissue then the physical space is limited irreversibly.

The pattern: Just like people have the same types of noses, lips, eyes etc they have similar scalps. Some people get the receeding hairline some get the diffuse thinning. Oh and why I mean scalps I mean both physical space and the network of vessels for lymph and blood. How else do you explain the different patterns of balding? Do DHT sensitive and not sensitive follicles mix during embryogenesis? ... That would make NO sense.

Quick summary: Without DHT no hair. Too much DHT with a tight scalp - inflammation - hairloss.

Think about this: They have found no difference between body hair and scalp hair follicles but it´s really easy to assume that the body has better cirkulation then the scalp.

How to avoid hairloss?

I see only one way - lower your body testosterone. How? I don´t know. I´m doing it by malnutrition and heavy cardio. My hair is doing really great and my scalp feels amazing. I´m slowly eating more but as soon as I feel an increased "wetness" I eat less and work hard. This will effect your libido but that´s something I chose. I can have sex but I just don´t feel like it as often.

I used to be on the big three. I first ditched nizoral about 5 months ago - never used it since. I also ditched minoxidil about a month ago and since then my scalp feels alot better and I´m not talking about itch, itch is something I could live with but the feeling of a small bruise bothered me.

Warning - I´m not telling people to stop using minoxidil. It helps cirkulation. However I´m worried abou the carrier upregulating TGF-b which stimulate fibroblasts.

Thanks for reading.
 

DaPlaya

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Re: I dare any1 to challenge this theory of how hairloss hap

nesta said:
First problem:

What about transplanted hairs? Well as we all know even transplanted hairs tend to follow the path of original hair but it´s pretty safe to assume that if you had 100 follicles producing sebum in 1square cm (this nr is totally fictional) and instead have 10 follicles much less sebum will be produced and less physicla pressure. Of course there will be the collagen and the scartissue but still it´s less then originally.

i wanna relate to what you said here,... why doesn't hairloss then stop after a while, i mean after the density of sebum producing follicles decreases?? if what you say is true, then there would be no silk-bald heads around...
 
G

Guest

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Re: I dare any1 to challenge this theory of how hairloss hap

DaPlaya said:
nesta said:
First problem:

What about transplanted hairs? Well as we all know even transplanted hairs tend to follow the path of original hair but it´s pretty safe to assume that if you had 100 follicles producing sebum in 1square cm (this nr is totally fictional) and instead have 10 follicles much less sebum will be produced and less physicla pressure. Of course there will be the collagen and the scartissue but still it´s less then originally.

i wanna relate to what you said here,... why doesn't hairloss then stop after a while, i mean after the density of sebum producing follicles decreases?? if what you say is true, then there would be no silk-bald heads around...

Why not? I mean if the inflammation is severe and you have the worst kind of predisposition then you´d go silk bald - but I question silk baldness and male pattern baldness. Most people who are silk bald shave some of it off and there are probably several conditions (albeit more uncommon) that cause baldness.
 

Bryan

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I would certainly accept your dare and challenge your theory, but you'd just refuse to make any reply at all. So why should I bother?

Bryan
 

Thinning

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"Topical fibroblast inhibition"

Who knows WTF this is but it sounds funny as hell.
 

Solo

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Where´s the double-blind stuff??


Now I don´t believe a sh*t.
 

formercurly

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Re: I dare any1 to challenge this theory of how hairloss hap

nesta said:
I belive that it has to do with the placement of the follicles in the scalp and physical space.

Quick summary: Without DHT no hair. Too much DHT with a tight scalp - inflammation - hairloss.

Think about this: They have found no difference between body hair and scalp hair follicles but it´s really easy to assume that the body has better cirkulation then the scalp.

It makes sense because the top of the scalp (galea) is tighter and more stretched than the sides and back in which the scalp is loose.

Question is whould scalp massages to increase circulation work?

I believe it's a combination of everything. In other words there is no single miracle protocol that works.
 

dead

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neiltom88 said:
I will take the challenge.

What have I got to do?

You must attack from the north, you have 30 minutes to bring back something personal.

I am not sure what I mean.

Goodnight

Ty
 
G

Guest

Guest
Bryan said:
I would certainly accept your dare and challenge your theory, but you'd just refuse to make any reply at all. So why should I bother?

Bryan

Uhm I don´t understand what you mean?

You have a theory that I don´t belive and that can´t explain certain given things whilst my theory explains the bulk of male pattern baldness.
 
G

Guest

Guest
The challenge is on.

Look at your hands. Close them into a fist. Open them. Can other things do that? Can a dog? Can a flower? A fish? What is your hand made of? Now rotate your head. Can you turn your head completely around? Can you turn your upper body completely around without moving your feet? Stand up, sit down. What prevents your body from collapsing like a rag doll?

Now if you put the above statement alongside Bryan's replay you can see that there is no connection. If there were a connection then Bryan would have said. Even I know about the connection and what it implies. You take it and leave it or you just don't take it in the first place.

One upon a time there was a little boy. He had a friend called Billy. Billy was a pain so he kicked his head in. Can you see the connection here? If you kick someone’s head in then you would think that his hair would also be damaged. Wrong! There is no connection with head kicking and damaged hair. You see! Bryan was correct after all.

Now I knew a guy at school who had really greasy hair. About a year after I had left school he came up to me one day when I was cutting my mums lawn. He still had greasy hair but he was not bald. I love painting as well. You know, scenic stuff. I like the way the colours fit togther to fill the page with vibrant variation. It's just when I add black that it all goes wrong. Black, Black....

Also, the Earth rotates at 15 miles per second. Jump up in the air and you will end up 15 miles from where you started. I just tried it. I jumped home but I spilt my Dr Pepper.
 

TheBaldingMenace

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nesta, interesting theory but that's all that it is theory. It seems that allot of your reason for hairloss is based on circulation? I'm not sure if I buy that.

BTW Traxdata, love that Dr. Pepper!!! :!:
 

Bryan

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nesta said:
Bryan said:
I would certainly accept your dare and challenge your theory, but you'd just refuse to make any reply at all. So why should I bother?

Bryan

Uhm I don´t understand what you mean?

Oh my goodness, you don't understand what I mean! Well, nesta, I'll say it again for about the fifth or sixth time: human scalp hair thrives and flourishes in the TOTAL ABSENCE of androgens. How do you reconcile that with your claim that "without DHT, no hair"?

Bryan
 
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