Interesting study on 5AR in the brain.

[-cj-]

Sorry if this is a repost, just ran across this. Also, could this explain the "Brain Fog" some people claim to experience?

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/86/3/1324

Like I said, just ran across this and thought it would be of good debate.

 

[science-jay]

Sorry if this is a repost, just ran across this. Also, could this explain the "Brain Fog" some people claim to experience?

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/86/3/1324

Like I said, just ran across this and thought it would be of good debate.

interesting study...
I've had a quick look and i think the main conclusion is that 5-alpha reductase type I plays different roles in the mature human brain, there's little evidence that type II is important in the brain. Because finasteride mainly interacts with type II i wouldn't worry to much, altough this sounds a bit alarming for Dutasteride users, because they are inhibiting both type I and II isoforms.

 

[-cj-]

Suprised there is only one response.

 

[barf]

anyone want to put that into english?

 

[Bryan]

It IS an interesting study, and verifies what we've been suspecting for a long time; namely, that the 5a-reductase within the brain is the type 1 variety exclusively. And you're right, it's only a real issue for dutasteride users. I suppose even they can be a little grateful that only around half or so (give or take) of the type 1 enzyme is inhibited, at the standard Avodart dosage.

And yes, testosterone isn't the only substrate for 5a-reductase. It performs other conversions on other hormones and chemicals, too.

Bryan

 

[Siberian]

So what are the *consequences* of inhibiting it in the brain?

I kinda figured that dutasteride would lower DHT system-wide (including brain) to female-like levels, and that since females tend to think and function just fine (more or less, lol), then we'd be fine taking dutasteride too.

I get that dutasteride affects the brain and finasteride doesn't... but what are the implied consequences then?

 

[Aplunk1]

Some people are 5AR deficient... And they have no psychological abnormalities... Am I correct?

 

[michael barry]

Bryan,
I know there are measurable levels of alpha 5 reductase type 1 in the human MALE brain. Is there alpha five type one in the FEMALE brain?

I keep in mind that women on average only produce a tenth the T a guy does.........so the amount of alpha five created-DHT running around her body would be superslim. Even if she had alpha five type one in her brain....she would only proboably make one tenth the DHT in there a guy would.

We also have those Peurto Ricans studies who had no alpha five type 2 enzyme at all in their bods, and they did fine and live long happy lives. Im not worried about Propecia at all being unsafe.....I wonder about Avodart.


I dont believe Sawaya when she claims the officials at GSK didnt put Avodart to market because they were afraid it wouldnt make 500 million a year either. A once a week 2.5 mg capsule WOULD INDEED SELL FOR BALDNESS>.......... Either GSK legitamately thought there might be long term sides from Avodart OR this.....it would have represented a de facto FDA-tested cure for baldness in those who had not started receeding. f*****g up completely future sales of toupee's, transplants, other medications. I think GSK was either paid, pressured, begged, or whatever to keep it off the market if this is the case.

 

[science-jay]

I'm wondering if the enzyme reduction that dutasteride causes is related to the sexual function of the brain, not necessarily cognitive ability.

almost no parts of the brain have one particular function, in the past they did believe the brain was highly localised. Now they now almost every part has diffirent functions. This is why even with brain damage some parts of the brain can take over the fcognitive fiunctions of the damaged areas.

I wonder why there are so few people worried by the possible effects dutasteride had on the brain. Maybe there is a general information gap here and where is the FDA?

 

[Siberian]

We should do a poll of dutasteride users and see if they still like watching The Three Stooges and Monty Python... and do they find themselves ordering salads and diet cokes?

 

[Thinning]

Maybe that explains why women are so clueless, cant get a real job ect. Well except for the ones that are male-like ( agressive, confrontational ), who probably have abnormally high levels of 5-AR.

 

[Siberian]

Maybe that explains why women are so clueless, cant get a real job ect. Well except for the ones that are male-like ( agressive, confrontational ), who probably have abnormally high levels of 5-AR.

LOL, joking aside, this is what I'm asking: is that study suggesting that dutasteride feminizes the brain to some extent?

 

[Aplunk1]

No problems here...

I had major sexual sides on Propecia, which are thankfully gone.

As far as mentally, I can tell that I feel a little different. It's noticeable, but it's nothing bad... I guess I feel a little more detached from things, but not enough to hinder anything.

I'm on genuine Avodart.

 

[Bryan]

So what are the *consequences* of inhibiting it in the brain?

I get that dutasteride affects the brain and finasteride doesn't... but what are the implied consequences then?

That's the $64,000 question. I don't think anybody knows for sure, although there are some hints here and there. One other study from a few years ago looked at some other brain chemicals that were also produced with the assistance of 5a-reductase. If I recall correctly, one of them was a hormone apparently having something to do with an anti-anxiety effect, so the implication in reducing that one (by inhibiting type 1 5a-reductase in the brain) is obvious.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Some people are 5AR deficient... And they have no psychological abnormalities... Am I correct?

Those people are deficient in the type 2 enzyme, but have normal levels of the type 1 enzyme. I've never heard of them having psychological abnormalities.

What's interesting to think about is that even though there's been a number of independent, spontaneous occurrences of 5a-reductase type 2 deficiencies around the world in different societies, there's apparently never been so much as even a SINGLE occurrence of a type 1 deficiency. One possible (and troubling) reason for that could conceivably be that a type 1 deficiency is LETHAL, so there would be no survivors to continue that mutation in their offspring. Which, of course, further implies that it's not a good idea to inhibit the type 1 enzyme in your own body with dutasteride, at least not past a certain point.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,
I know there are measurable levels of alpha 5 reductase type 1 in the human MALE brain. Is there alpha five type one in the FEMALE brain?

Michael, didn't you read through that study that was posted at the beginning of this thread? They clearly indicated that there were no sex-related differences at all in 5a-reductase activity in the brain samples from men and women.

I keep in mind that women on average only produce a tenth the T a guy does.........so the amount of alpha five created-DHT running around her body would be superslim. Even if she had alpha five type one in her brain....she would only proboably make one tenth the DHT in there a guy would.

Sounds reasonable, but the issue is not so much how much DHT women make compared to men, but those OTHER chemicals and hormones that are also apparently produced in the brain with the help of 5a-reductase.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

I'm wondering if the enzyme reduction that dutasteride causes is related to the sexual function of the brain, not necessarily cognitive ability.

The authors of that study don't seem to think it has anything to do with sexual function in the brain.

Bryan