Is it true that Propecia helps with muscle gaining?

[RecedingAt19]

There was a theory that Propecia actually gave you muscle mass due to the slight increase in testosterone.

So, my question to those who use Propecia and workout, did you notice any changes? Change in strength? Muscle?

 

[LooseItAll]

Maybe but only with an aromatase inhibitor

 

[ripple-effect]

You would have to use an aromatase(increases estrogen) inhibitor along with a SHBG(lowers free T) inhibitor.

Free Testosterone wants to become one of these 3 things when it is floating around in your body:
1.) DHT
2.) estradiol
3.) bind to SHBG(Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)

Since Propecia inhibits the production of DHT, the Free T will mainly only convert to estradiol(type of estrogen) or bind to SHBG. To prevent conversion of Free T into estradiol you would need to use an aromatase inhibitor. An effective natural aromatase inhibitor I would recommend is Grape Seed Extract. This should also help prevent some of the Propecia side effects such as gyno which is caused by increased estrogen levels. A potent brand of GSE I would recommend is Nature's Plus:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00014 ... B00014G47S

Seagate is another high quality brand I would recommend(I use this brand b/c they control all steps in the manufacturing process ensuring quality):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002F ... WIQA3ELE2DUI


You also need to prevent Free T from binding to the SHBG. To accomplish this I would recommend increasing your protein intake and using Fish oil supplements. This should help prevent sexual dysfunction by increasing testosterone levels.

This should result in a greater increase of Free T in your system which has many great health benefits.

 

[MadMartigan]

You would have to use an aromatase(increases estrogen) inhibitor along with a SHBG(lowers free T) inhibitor.

Free Testosterone wants to become one of these 3 things when it is floating around in your body:
1.) DHT
2.) estradiol
3.) bind to SHBG(Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)

Since Propecia inhibits the production of DHT, the Free T will mainly only convert to estradiol(type of estrogen) or bind to SHBG. To prevent conversion of Free T into estradiol you would need to use an aromatase inhibitor. An effective natural aromatase inhibitor I would recommend is Grape Seed Extract. This should also help prevent some of the Propecia side effects such as gyno which is caused by increased estrogen levels. A potent brand of GSE I would recommend and use myself is Nature's Plus:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00014 ... B00014G47S

or Jarrow's formula is another potent brand I would highly recommend:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013O ... B0013OXA2M

You also need to prevent Free T from binding to the SHBG. To accomplish this I would recommend increasing your protein intake and using Fish oil supplements. This should help prevent sexual dysfunction by increasing testosterone levels.

This should result in a greater increase of Free T in your system which has many great health benefits.

Does Grape Seed Extract really work?

I will order some supplements in EU and maybe I will order this, but I'm doubtful about it's potency as an AI.

 

[Danik0226]

A more potent option is Triazole. If you were to take it, I would take no more than 1 a day. You run the risk of increasing DHT if you took the standard dose of 3 to 4 a day.

 

[ripple-effect]

Does Grape Seed Extract really work?

I will order some supplements in EU and maybe I will order this, but I'm doubtful about it's potency as an AI.

Yes, it really works. Here is a study:
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/conte ... /5960.full

Remember, you also need to make up for the lack of DHT in your body by increasing testosterone levels. That is why you also need to look into ways of preventing Free T from binding to SHBG also. Increasing your T levels will have no effect on hair loss as long as it cannot convert to DHT. It has many very good health benefits including increasing an overall sense of well being.

 

[MadMartigan]

Does Grape Seed Extract really work?

I will order some supplements in EU and maybe I will order this, but I'm doubtful about it's potency as an AI.

Yes, it really works. Here is a study:
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/conte ... /5960.full

Remember, you also need to make up for the lack of DHT in your body by increasing testosterone levels. That is why you also need to look into ways of preventing Free T from binding to SHBG also. Increasing your T levels will have no effect on hair loss as long as it cannot convert to DHT. It has many very good health benefits including increasing an overall sense of well being.

Thank you ripple-effect.

I saw that this study was debated on Anabolicminds and Elitefitness and some other forums as well. I have not had time to read it myself, but the opinions on the study were mixed.

Well, my GSE will hopefully arrive this week and I will start it immediately. I will probably also combine it with DAA for getting some more testo. DAA can raise estro, so I would like an "AI" when running DAA during finasteride.

Right now I try to take ZMA every night (ZMA doesn't mix with caseine/whey/milk/calcium) and also some extra zinc during days, I have some zinc picoliniate left, but soon I'll have to stick with a cheaper product and a less effective uptake.

I've been working out in the gym for 5+ years and I definitely feel that something has changed when I started finasteride. And it hasn't changed in a good way when it comes to strength - that's for sure!

 

[ripple-effect]

I've been working out in the gym for 5+ years and I definitely feel that something has changed when I started finasteride. And it hasn't changed in a good way when it comes to strength - that's for sure!

It's been shown in some studies that men with lower DHT levels can't lift as much weight as someone at the same level as they are (in size and weight). This is b/c DHT contributes to tensing the muscles(It increases your strength). When you remove DHT from your system your muscles cannot contract as well as before. This is why I recommend using a topical DHT inhibitor for local inhibition b/c DHT has it's benefits in the body. My previous advice is for users who insist on using finasteride, but I'm not an advocate of using it.

 

[MadMartigan]

I've been working out in the gym for 5+ years and I definitely feel that something has changed when I started finasteride. And it hasn't changed in a good way when it comes to strength - that's for sure!

It's been shown in some studies that men with lower DHT levels can't lift as much weight as someone at the same level as they are (in size and weight). This is b/c DHT contributes to tensing the muscles(It increases your strength). When you remove DHT from your system your muscles cannot contract as well as before. This is why I recommend using a topical DHT inhibitor for local inhibition b/c DHT has it's benefits in the body. My previous advice is for users who insist on using finasteride, but I'm not an advocate of using it.

Then I understand. I substitute this strength loss with stims and pre-work out aminos to compensate for the lack of neuromuscular strength.

But it's like driving a car with a smaller engine much harder.

I will aim for RU58841 in the future.

 

[Prop]

There was a theory that Propecia actually gave you muscle mass due to the slight increase in testosterone.

So, my question to those who use Propecia and workout, did you notice any changes? Change in strength? Muscle?

who create that theory?

i always heard opposite everywhere.
anedoct report mainly about fat gain and some case of muscle loss

 

[MadMartigan]

ripple-effect: any thougts on dosaging GSE?

I think I will try 200 mg now at bedtime. I'm probably high in estrogen due to my di-aspartatic-acid cycle (DAA).

I started DAA to combat the totally unexpected side effects of finasteride - sore joints and a dry body, (It sounds almost like I was on an AI, but I was only on finasteride).

It's all a bit strange. I'm using finasteride from a pharmacy so it's no fake either.

I'm not complaining right now, the strength are back thanks to DAA or perhaps just that I have more water in my muscles/body,

(+ approx 500 gram/0,5 kg/1 lbs)

 

[Charlie5]

Hey MadMartigan,

I had the same exact side effects on 1mg Propecia and it was worse on 5mg of propecia: Joint pains & dry thin skin. Now that Im on 0.25mg the symptoms are gone. In addition to this had decreased semen on the 1 & 5mg doses.

I'm glad you mentioned it I thought I was the only one who got joint pains on the stuff.

 

[ripple-effect]

ripple-effect: any thougts on dosaging GSE?

I think I will try 200 mg now at bedtime. I'm probably high in estrogen due to my di-aspartatic-acid cycle (DAA).

I started DAA to combat the totally unexpected side effects of finasteride - sore joints and a dry body, (It sounds almost like I was on an AI, but I was only on finasteride).

It's all a bit strange. I'm using finasteride from a pharmacy so it's no fake either.

I'm not complaining right now, the strength are back thanks to DAA or perhaps just that I have more water in my muscles/body,

(+ approx 500 gram/0,5 kg/1 lbs)

I would consider starting with the recommended dosage on the bottle. If that doesn't improve symptoms then double the dosage.

 

[chessmaniac12]

Does Grape Seed Extract really work?

I will order some supplements in EU and maybe I will order this, but I'm doubtful about it's potency as an AI.

Yes, it really works. Here is a study:
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/conte ... /5960.full

Remember, you also need to make up for the lack of DHT in your body by increasing testosterone levels. That is why you also need to look into ways of preventing Free T from binding to SHBG also. Increasing your T levels will have no effect on hair loss as long as it cannot convert to DHT. It has many very good health benefits including increasing an overall sense of well being.

Actually its good for hairs? Some says Grape seed extract is bad for hairs. Some says its useful...

 

[MadMartigan]

I quitted GSE. It was way too weak.

 

[allendbrook]

When you go round the gyms, or tune into the forums and chat rooms, there are always people talking about the different ways in which to build muscle mass. Most are legitimate and not dangerous but, every now and then, you hear words from those who have passed on to the dark side. To them, it's not so much the how, it's the result of looking the part and having the strength that matters. Some of these people suggest using Propecia, also sold under the generic name of Finasteride. This represents an off-label use. In other words, when you look at the used licensed by the regulatory authorities around the world, none have permitted this particular use. So, if you're tempted by the idea, you should be aware of the risks in using the drug in this way. This reflects the more general rule against using any drug for a non-medical purpose.

 

[Agahi]

Since I started finasteride I have gained 60lbs of muscle(went from 140lbs to 200). As a note however, I also became a heavy lifting construction worker and I got married so I eat a lot more (wife cooks meals). I am actually fairly toned now as opposed to the smallest(skinny wise) guy I know from before.

Not saying its all finasteride, but it at the very least didn't hurt.

 

[Wuffer]

Finasteride likely has no effect (positive or negative) on muscle growth or development. Testosterone levels may raise slightly when starting, but I don't think it's significant enough to really make any real discernible difference.

The following study shows that DHT inhibition via dutasteride does not impact muscle growth or maintenance. It's only logical to assume the weaker 5ARI (finasteride) would also have no effect:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22396515

I've been on finasteride almost 2 years and i'm putting on muscle at almost the exact same rate as I did when I did 5 years ago when I was 25.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

So what are some other good estradiol inhibitors? Was talking to a guy at gnc and he said grape seed extract was pretty weak and recommending all the bodybuilding stuff like tribulus and other T uppers and aromatase inhibitors. What is good to take with finasteride to inhibit it and how much/how often should I take it? Thanks

 

[wstef]

So far I take finasteride, around 50mg of zinc and am I now looking for something to help with the sides (seemingly something which inhibits the conversion to the less wanted hormones in men)... this is on top of the cod liver oil, calcium and multivitamin tablets I already take (pre-Propecia).

I am starting to think the hassle of keeping my hair is not worth it!

I think what finasteride might do to people, as some report, is make them more lethargic which can prevent heavier lifting and such.

If you take finasteride you have to be dedicated with your health it seems.