Is The Cure For This Disease Anywhere Close?

[BaldyBalderBald]

Create new hair and keep them. But nothin amazing about density

Yep, final results are not out yet, but IIRC the first ones, density was lower than a natural one maybe they are improving this aspect.

Creates new hair. There is nothin like "reverse hairloss".

This one is ambiguous, look at the MtF transgenders...recovery is almost perfect without wound protocol.Yeah i know this is a high price for hair...but this is a reversal nonetheless. I'm not convinced this is actually irreversible

 

[ALightInTheDark]

This one is ambiguous, look at the MtF transgenders...recovery is almost perfect without wound protocol.Yeah i know this is a high price for hair...but this is a reversal nonetheless. I'm not convinced this is actually irreversible

Hair loss is reversible,no matter what.
But he said "is this a product that reverse hairloss ?" There isn't any product that reverse hairloss and there will never be.
Even MtF Trans take estro + minoxidil + cyproterone acetate + + +...etc etc.
All they do is just : Nuke Testo. So nuking DHT. Raise Estro full powa. FGF9. Induce hair neogenesis. Here you are

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Hair loss is reversible,no matter what

Reversible ? Or irreversible ? You lost me there.
Follica's protocol cannot work without Wound, all their research is based on this first step
But MtF actually regrowth their hair without this, it's not a hair neogenesis, just hormonal induced regrowth

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

What i'm trying to figure out actually is, whether hair follicles are dead in Androgenetic Alopecia
MtF transgenders don't create new hairs, no hair neogenesis, they just get regrowth of previous ones
Follica's protocol creates new hairs

 

[Jonnyyy]

Create new hair and keep them. But nothin amazing about density

Is the density really bad?

 

[Dantes90]

Well assuming its anything like the R Dhurat study above and we get results at least as good as those above and its consistent among most people that use it, I think those are pretty good results. Hopefully with their final trial the efficacy is even greater, but I suppose we will find out in due time.

 

[Jonnyyy]

View attachment 66311

Well assuming its anything like the R Dhurat study above and we get results at least as good as those above and its consistent among most people that use it, I think those are pretty good results. Hopefully with their final trial the efficacy is even greater, but I suppose we will find out in due time.

that's amazing results for only 12 weeks. Do you know if the results got better as time passed or if it only helped keep what they got?

 

[Dantes90]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

"The present 12-week study showed that dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair count and patient/investigator assessment of hair growth/scalp coverage.

On retrospective questioning of patients after 8 months of completion of the study, at the time of writing the manuscript, all patients in the Microneedling group reported a sustainable response."

It appears that it maintained those results, but doesn't appear to have gotten more regrowth.

 

[Jonnyyy]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

"The present 12-week study showed that dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair count and patient/investigator assessment of hair growth/scalp coverage.

On retrospective questioning of patients after 8 months of completion of the study, at the time of writing the manuscript, all patients in the Microneedling group reported a sustainable response."

It appears that it maintained those results, but doesn't appear to have gotten more regrowth.

So what's the difference between this and follica?

 

[Dantes90]

Well the main thing would be possibly the compounds used, follica might use more or entirely different products for their RAIN treatment than the microneedling + minoxidil used in the R Dhurat study, but not 100% sure on that. It does appear that the scientist R Dhurat that worked on that trial I linked to is an advisor for follica so I would assume we could at least expect results consistent with that study if not greater.

 

[Jonnyyy]

Well the main thing would be possibly the compounds used, follica might use more or entirely different products for their RAIN treatment than the microneedling + minoxidil used in the R Dhurat study, but not 100% sure on that. It does appear that the scientist R Dhurat that worked on that trial I linked to is an advisor for follica so I would assume we could at least expect results consistent with that study if not greater.

Would it be possible to combine something like this and Replicel?

 

[Dantes90]

Well from the interview on this site:

https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/news/new-research/follica-presents-at-the-aad-2017-annual-meeting/

"Possibly Replace a Finasteride / Minoxidil Regimen?
Treatment modality not the same as Minoxidil or Finasteride, so they would most likely not discourage people from stopping their current treatments as this would just be another angle to treat hair loss and maybe give a synergistic positive result with the other treatments."

It certainly sounds like we would be able to combine it with other treatments such as Replicel/Shiseido's RCH-01.

"They are attempting to make sure the patient will not have to shave their head when it is performed, and he would not confirm whether existing hair would be damaged but said that they are trying to find the best modality so this could be avoided."

Reading that part of the interview I wonder if processes like that are what are being covered in the pilot optimization study or if it is to improve efficacy.

 

[Jonnyyy]

Well from the interview on this site:

https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/news/new-research/follica-presents-at-the-aad-2017-annual-meeting/

"Possibly Replace a Finasteride / Minoxidil Regimen?
Treatment modality not the same as Minoxidil or Finasteride, so they would most likely not discourage people from stopping their current treatments as this would just be another angle to treat hair loss and maybe give a synergistic positive result with the other treatments."

It certainly sounds like we would be able to combine it with other treatments such as Replicel/Shiseido's RCH-01.

"They are attempting to make sure the patient will not have to shave their head when it is performed, and he would not confirm whether existing hair would be damaged but said that they are trying to find the best modality so this could be avoided."

Reading that part of the interview I wonder if processes like that are what are being covered in the pilot optimization study or if it is to improve efficacy.

Wow sounds like a treatment alright, I doubt I'll have much hair by the time it releases though I want either 90%+ of my hair back or none at all.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

Reversible ? Or irreversible ? You lost me there.
Follica's protocol cannot work without Wound, all their research is based on this first step
But MtF actually regrowth their hair without this, it's not a hair neogenesis, just hormonal induced regrowth

Hair loss is reversible. Follica protocol is based on more than wounding. There is nothing confused in what I said : hair loss is reversible. But there will never be a magical single and unique product that will reverse hair loss by itself.
I said that MtF regrow hair because they nuke test,so dht and 5-AR. Estrogen has anti-androgenetics properties and induce FGF9 so,follicle neogenesis. And it's not ALL Trans who regrow full NW0-1 but they have amazing recoveries.

 

[dermrafok]

HAIR LOSS IS REVERSIBLE. Hair follicles don't die...Hair Loss (male pattern baldness) is reversible.

 

[dermrafok]

HAIR LOSS IS REVERSIBLE. Hair follicles don't die...Hair Loss (male pattern baldness) is reversible.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3026732/
Bald scalp in men with androgenetic alopecia retains hair follicle stem cells but lacks CD200-rich and CD34-positive hair follicle progenitor cells

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21492240
Generation of folliculogenic human epithelial stem cells from induced pluripotent stem cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21492240
Characterization and quantification of wound-induced hair follicle neogenesis using in vivo confocal scanning laser microscopy.

https://www.cellapplications.com/human-hair-follicle-dermal-papilla-cells-hfdpc

And more studies...

 

[dermrafok]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3026732/
Bald scalp in men with androgenetic alopecia retains hair follicle stem cells but lacks CD200-rich and CD34-positive hair follicle progenitor cells

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21492240
Generation of folliculogenic human epithelial stem cells from induced pluripotent stem cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21492240
Characterization and quantification of wound-induced hair follicle neogenesis using in vivo confocal scanning laser microscopy.

https://www.cellapplications.com/human-hair-follicle-dermal-papilla-cells-hfdpc

And more studies...

The last:
Dermal Blimp1 Acts Downstream of Epidermal TGFβ and Wnt/β-Catenin to Regulate Hair FollicleFormation and Growth.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28668474

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Okay, okay mates, thanks for clarification.

Hair follicles neogenesis is kind of a dumb and misleading term then, no hair creation there, just regeneration.

Scientists and their fancy terms....

 

[LeanMeanMachine]

Seems like hair loss is more immune based than what people initially expected.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Immune reaction to a body hormone seems relevant yeah