Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016
- Thread starter paleocapa89
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I quote that.
@That Guy , you totally shifted opinions. I shall remember that, a lot of pages ago, Beps provided this photo to earn his credibility:
Now, I hope you or others won't say that he just picked 4 random bottles and printed a fake tag and attached to them, because I'll leave immediately this discussion...
And for more, he also posted on IESON; Marlin, the admin, is a VERY skeptical guy - so much that it is extremely annoying to talk with him about new tratments; but after he exchanged some PMs with Beps, he wrote on the discussion that he could assure clearly that Beps was not a troll. Obviously he couldn't say anything about the efficacy (and remained skeptical on this), but he got a proof that he was not lying, and he could guarantee that. I don't think is a smart move now to rediscuss Beps' credibility.
I agree that he is for sure Brotzu's son, who posted on the private FB group giving informations, which were pretty similar to the things he explained here and on IESON.
I'm sorry, but calling for spontaneous remissions on ALL Brotzu's subjects is insanely ridiculous in my opinion. When Alopecia Areata expresses itself in the very beginning of the life of a child, it is typically an aggressive and congenite form, more than pathological. Also, spontaneous remissions really don't happen so often; in fact they are so rare that the majority of AA sufferers never experiences them in their life, or, at least, it almost NEVER leads to a full or full-like regrowth as we saw in Brotzu's trials. Also, just think in probability terms: how much possibilities are there, to achieve a total remission of almost all patients of the trial at the same moment of life, after they were treated with Brotzu Lotion for a period?
Come on, it's hilarious.
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Reboost has better pictures lol.Best summary of the 400+ pages of this thread ever. The kid is ThatGuy i suppose.
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Anyone is entitled to a change in opinions. Not long ago I thought ReBoost was legit just because it came from a university and prof Sahin has a few published papers. But because of their lack of trials and statistical data I find I hard to believe the "Turkish miracle" isn't a scam.
That being said Brotzus lotion does hold some advantages over Shiseido, given that the lotions will be a monthly buy thing and not a one time payment which requires savings. Also the "up to 5 years of regrowth" makes me moist. So there's still a market for it even if it comes out in the same time frame as Shiseido.
That being said Brotzus lotion does hold some advantages over Shiseido, given that the lotions will be a monthly buy thing and not a one time payment which requires savings. Also the "up to 5 years of regrowth" makes me moist. So there's still a market for it even if it comes out in the same time frame as Shiseido.
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You are misrepresenting what I wrote I talked specifically about two of his Areata patients I did not see more. I am saying I am no impressed wth those two subjects if more I am unaware of them and have not seen photos.
I only spoke about two of his subjects the little girl and the Italian lady and Its not ridiculous and if you know anything about areata in children it is often going into full unpredictable remissions..HOW do you know about areata and NOT know that? I question your knowledge about Areata.
Children who are afflicted young do often have periods of spontaneous remissions...In fact some children will cycle complete hair loss and complete regrowth several times as a child--no reason.
Its an unpredictable disease..
It is harder for complete remission as an adult.
IF you get it as a child you are more likely to have totalis as an adult.
There is no 'bank' with areata so a lot of this is conjecture but the consensus is its unpredictable and complete remission is unpredictable. Especially in Children.
I only saw 2 of his subjects with areata..
The Italian lady--who did NOT have remission at all in my opinion she shaves her head so how can you tell? You cant...She maybe got 20% regrowth? how is this touted as good results? its not really in my opinion and the little girl?...I only saw 1 photo of the little girl..I did not see follow ups..IF there are more where are they?
I said that the little girl going into remission is not something i would be impressed with since i have seen total remission photos--many for no reason of children.
so much of what you spoke about Areata is untrue to both my knowledge and experience of the disease which i was wrongly diagnosed with a rare form of it for several weeks and immersed myself in research..
I suggest you go talk on Facebook to a group called Alopecia areata and talk to Melanie Moyers OR any of the men and women on that group who have had it most of their lives...its a resourse of thousands of areata sufferers all ages and parents of areata sufferes.
you can also talk to National Alopecia Areata Foundation and see what they say about children and remission.
In fact go on that private Facebook group Alopecia Areata and post a question asking how many peoples children have spontaneously gone into remission and see what they say.
Now Jax for Areata??? that sh*t works and plenty of photos of people in trials and doing it on their own to support it works--it is just really toxic drugs and expensive.
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Well, given the fact you were posting since the very beginning of the thread, I thought that you were at least more informed than a lot of others. That's why I commented that way. Since you did not see other photos, I'll post again the video of SITRI (for like the 20th time), but just the part where the professor talks about the results and shows the patients:
As you can see, there are 4 patients with photos to show what the lotion can do. The professor then follows with a very large table comprehensive of all the patients, listed by initials, their type of Alopecia (TOTALIS or UNI), and the progresses obtained, using the dots to make a cumulative insight. Since you don't speak italian, the compendium of what Beps explained after SITRI in the forums, is that the professor was able only to show the photos of his own trial's patients (the ones he carried before even speaking at Genova's Gaslini, you can find on youtube easily also that presentation), because the others in the table belong to a trial financed by FIDIA, and he didn't have the rights to show their photos. However, as you can see from the table, like everybody had improvements: from TOTAL recoveries to partial improvements. You say that you were not impressed from the little girl's improvements, I hope that this can make you change your ideas! But, if I understand correctly: the "artist" lady, who got an improvement, but not so cosmetically impressive, didn't impress you too, you said this time for the % of the regrowth. I think this is not the logic, we perfectly know that in the hair loss world, the treatments do not provoke the exact same response in all of the subjects, because there is a personal response to the drugs. Using your logic, the scientists who tested at the very first Finasteride should not had continued their studies and commercial release, because, for a new drug to combat hair loss, the results were absolutely not impressive, too! Instead, that drug, even though in most cases it stops the Androgenetic Alopecia progression and does not produce a cosmetic improvement - not so different than what we observed with this lotion - , is now worldwide known as the best treatment so far for Androgenetic Alopecia. Keep also in mind that Brotzu stated many many times that the lotion's effectiveness is based on the age of the subject and the time since the "generic Alopecia" manifested. And also, since you said that tofacitinib and ruxolitinib have been trialed and you believe the word of who tried them, you should remember what the "artist" always said about the lotion: she was trying her on herself and said that this was the first treatment to work on her. Why we should believe tofacitinib's users and not Brotzu's?
However, just by the fact that almost ALL the children have experienced a total regrowth, and the older ones quite good but minor improvements just like Brotzu explained, makes a no-sense of the "spontaneous remission" debate, at least for me. Relying on my 2 exams of probabilities and statistics, but maybe frankly more on the common sense, knowing all of this and still talk about remissions is just not having faith when it could be given. I commented that way, I repeat, because I thought you were more informed about Brotzu than what you told me on your last post, that's all, now you know
About all the debate of AA you made, I can say that I am not in fact questioning your knowledge, rather than the logic (but I thought you knew more, I said). In fact, from my knowledge, I have 2 friends who suffer from Totalis, one is located here where I study, the other in my very distant hometown. Both of them, as far as they told me, were never able, since their AA exploited, to rock a hairstyle. One of them, when I asked him 2 years ago when I was approaching the sad hairloss world, told me that he never regrew a single hair. And also, when I joined the FB group Alopecia&Co , there were a lot of users, sufferers of Totalis, trying to put pressure on Beps and FIDIA because most of them didn't even know what a hairstyle is, and they now see the possibility to finally grow their locks for like the first time in decades. If I remember correctly, even the opener of the petition wore a wig ever since her AA hit.
Now that's my knowledge about this particular point, and if you know more and differently than me, it's ok, I learned a new thing
But what really concerns me is, now knowing all the facts that I exposed, in my opinion, I repeat, talking about spontaneous remissions in the particular case of Brotzu's trial, is ridiculous, it's like "f*** logic". I hope now you can agree with me and give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to Brotzu what belongs to Brotzu, so everybody can stop "shooting on the Red Cross", as we say in Italy.
I written all of this to say that Brotzu made two promises: one, that this lotion will help Areata sufferers, and the second, that Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers would benefit too. So, given the facts we know RIGHT NOW, one promise is really on the edge to be fulfilled, so why should he lied about Androgenetic Alopecia (our major concern) ?
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Well, given the fact you were posting since the very beginning of the thread, I thought that you were at least more informed than a lot of others. That's why I commented that way. Since you did not see other photos, I'll post again the video of SITRI (for like the 20th time), but just the part where the professor talks about the results and shows the patients:
As you can see, there are 4 patients with photos to show what the lotion can do. The professor then follows with a very large table comprehensive of all the patients, listed by initials, their type of Alopecia (TOTALIS or UNI), and the progresses obtained, using the dots to make a cumulative insight. Since you don't speak italian, the compendium of what Beps explained after SITRI in the forums, is that the professor was able only to show the photos of his own trial's patients (the ones he carried before even speaking at Genova's Gaslini, you can find on youtube easily also that presentation), because the others in the table belong to a trial financed by FIDIA, and he didn't have the rights to show their photos. However, as you can see from the table, like everybody had improvements: from TOTAL recoveries to partial improvements. You say that you were not impressed from the little girl's improvements, I hope that this can make you change your ideas! But, if I understand correctly: the "artist" lady, who got an improvement, but not so cosmetically impressive, didn't impress you too, you said this time for the % of the regrowth. I think this is not the logic, we perfectly know that in the hair loss world, the treatments do not provoke the exact same response in all of the subjects, because there is a personal response to the drugs. Using your logic, the scientists who tested at the very first Finasteride should not had continued their studies and commercial release, because, for a new drug to combat hair loss, the results were absolutely not impressive, too! Instead, that drug, even though in most cases it stops the Androgenetic Alopecia progression and does not produce a cosmetic improvement - not so different than what we observed with this lotion - , is now worldwide known as the best treatment so far for Androgenetic Alopecia. Keep also in mind that Brotzu stated many many times that the lotion's effectiveness is based on the age of the subject and the time since the "generic Alopecia" manifested. And also, since you said that tofacitinib and ruxolitinib have been trialed and you believe the word of who tried them, you should remember what the "artist" always said about the lotion: she was trying her on herself and said that this was the first treatment to work on her. Why we should believe tofacitinib's users and not Brotzu's?
However, just by the fact that almost ALL the children have experienced a total regrowth, and the older ones quite good but minor improvements just like Brotzu explained, makes a no-sense of the "spontaneous remission" debate, at least for me. Relying on my 2 exams of probabilities and statistics, but maybe frankly more on the common sense, knowing all of this and still talk about remissions is just not having faith when it could be given. I commented that way, I repeat, because I thought you were more informed about Brotzu than what you told me on your last post, that's all, now you know
About all the debate of AA you made, I can say that I am not in fact questioning your knowledge, rather than the logic (but I thought you knew more, I said). In fact, from my knowledge, I have 2 friends who suffer from Totalis, one is located here where I study, the other in my very distant hometown. Both of them, as far as they told me, were never able, since their AA exploited, to rock a hairstyle. One of them, when I asked him 2 years ago when I was approaching the sad hairloss world, told me that he never regrew a single hair. And also, when I joined the FB group Alopecia&Co , there were a lot of users, sufferers of Totalis, trying to put pressure on Beps and FIDIA because most of them didn't even know what a hairstyle is, and they now see the possibility to finally grow their locks for like the first time in decades. If I remember correctly, even the opener of the petition wore a wig ever since her AA hit.
Now that's my knowledge about this particular point, and if you know more and differently than me, it's ok, I learned a new thing
But what really concerns me is, now knowing all the facts that I exposed, in my opinion, I repeat, talking about spontaneous remissions in the particular case of Brotzu's trial, is ridiculous, it's like "f*** logic". I hope now you can agree with me and give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to Brotzu what belongs to Brotzu, so everybody can stop "shooting on the Red Cross", as we say in Italy.
I written all of this to say that Brotzu made two promises: one, that this lotion will help Areata sufferers, and the second, that Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers would benefit too. So, given the facts we know RIGHT NOW, one promise is really on the edge to be fulfilled, so why should he lied about Androgenetic Alopecia (our major concern) ?
I skimmed it and more than half of what you say I am saying I never said and a lot of it is you inferring WAY too much from my two posts.
I am open to brotzu to see how it goes--I never said I was not. But I am not convinced it works for areata the way the poster said which I responded to.
No one should really be convinced of anything yet. Let the trials all come out.
Now JAX i KNOW works because people are using JAX and posting about it for areata--its extremely expensive and very toxic but it seems to work. They are posting before after photos all over areata forums themselves. Where is the brotzu people in the international areata forums who this worked for? No where to be found.
I spoke to a woman in Italy who has androgenic and areata--she was keeping tabs on Brotzu but never met anyone who was in trials. Met online plenty in Jax trials.
I responded to someones post to say I was not impressed with Italian Lady and that children often go into spontaneous remission--which is factual and truthful and I gave you resources to check it out for yourself.
The Italian lady before brotzu she ALWAYS had some small amount of hair on her head...she shaved bald to be clean aesthetic instead of sporadic little hair....she used brotzu, she stopped shaving..she grew a small amount of hair....the difference in the small amount of hair that was increased from the small amount she had previous to me is negligible to naked eye in photos side by side. That is my opinion from my following her on Facebook..in fact someone who is friends with her even commented on this and she said that she had a little more growth..
End of the day she went back to shaving.
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Well, given the fact you were posting since the very beginning of the thread, I thought that you were at least more informed than a lot of others. That's why I commented that way. Since you did not see other photos, I'll post again the video of SITRI (for like the 20th time), but just the part where the professor talks about the results and shows the patients:
But what really concerns me is, now knowing all the facts that I exposed, in my opinion, I repeat, talking about spontaneous remissions in the particular case of Brotzu's trial, is ridiculous, it's like "f*** logic". I hope now you can agree with me and give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to Brotzu what belongs to Brotzu, so everybody can stop "shooting on the Red Cross", as we say in Italy.
I written all of this to say that Brotzu made two promises: one, that this lotion will help Areata sufferers, and the second, that Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers would benefit too. So, given the facts we know RIGHT NOW, one promise is really on the edge to be fulfilled, so why should he lied about Androgenetic Alopecia (our major concern) ?
I said in children--it is ridiculous in children...If you don't agree with this I suggest you do some research. Talk to some parents whose kids regrown hair several times for no apparent reason. Kids just go into remission more often than adults and it is unpredictable
If you learn anything about areata-- learn it is unpredictable. Its remission is unpredictable and its onset and severity is unpredictable...that is a given...SO anytime you do research with a variable that is unpredictable you have to have a lot of research a lot of examples of improvement not just a handful. I am not a scientist but I would think an unpredictable subject makes it more complex to have a consensus..This is why I can assume more easily (oral) Jax works because the before/after are self posted by a large number of people on multiple forums.
If you are on an areata forum then you must be seeing these postings and know what I say to be true--now the problem with Jax is its toxic and expensive so if you are not in a trial or a healthy adult you are screwed (no one is going to give a child Jax medication)
I am 'pro' brotzu I just don't know its going to be this miracle drug for Areata or Androgenic and quite frankly neither do you.
I am not that impressed yet given those two examples I sited and the buzz I have read on areata forums.
I think some of you are so insecure that this may NOT work..some of you seem really invested in this and not reasonably skeptical which is not 'healthy' in my opinion especially if it's stopping you from other forms of medication. Which was part of the point of my post you initially commented on.
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Quote me on it, then.
I've said from the get go that this is realistically only going to be a potential alternative to minoxidil and finasteride. It COULD be more powerful than it and provide better results, sure; that is possible given the capabilities of liposomes.
But resurrect the average patient several Norwoods? I continue to doubt it. As such, nobody should be expecting results significantly better that what finasteride and minoxidil can do in terms of regrowth.
I also never stated this would induce neogenesis lol.
In my opinion too many people expect a complet regrow of their hair after just 3-6 months when they were losing those hairs over a period of several years. How could you repair something in your body in months which was damaged for years. It's always easier to damage something than to repair it. So how should this AA-girl regrow all her hair in just a few months which she lost over a period of several years? I would like to see her results if she uses this lotion for 1-2 years.
All in all I don't expect "huge" improvements from this lotion after 3-6 month and it will probabely give minoxidil/finasteride like results. So good results but not groundbreaking. But still a lot of people will lose their sh*t over those results because 10% regrowth is so disappointing and i want my hair back now and blahblahblah. But if this lotion can, in combination with minoxidil/finasteride or maybe alone, really stop hair loss and regrow this amount of hair every 3-6 months then this will be awesome especially for people with lower NWs but it will need time and patience.
All in all I don't expect "huge" improvements from this lotion after 3-6 month and it will probabely give minoxidil/finasteride like results. So good results but not groundbreaking. But still a lot of people will lose their sh*t over those results because 10% regrowth is so disappointing and i want my hair back now and blahblahblah. But if this lotion can, in combination with minoxidil/finasteride or maybe alone, really stop hair loss and regrow this amount of hair every 3-6 months then this will be awesome especially for people with lower NWs but it will need time and patience.
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One promising fact is that the lotion does nothing to address the autoimmune component of alopecia yet still regrows a lot of hair. That means male pattern baldness sufferers could potentially regrow and maintain hair without addressing the root cause (androgens). Not that the S-equol doesn't have the potential to do so, but I'm not sure how something can truly block all of the tissue DHT without going systemic, which I don't want. Just bs'ing here but seems logical enough
Even if this stuff works, who cares? It won't be available until next year at least. Unless you just can't make it to Japan for Shiseido, this lotion is kind of pointless. It's not going to grow more hair than minoxidil, and Shiseido is a superior option for maintenance with no side effects.
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Ive been a fervent supporter of Brotzu's lotion, all the evidence seems to point in the right direction, and the anecdotal evidence appears to say this is the real deal. However, it's almost 1.5 years later, things have gone silent. Yes Fidia says leave us in peace to bring this thing to market, clearly written in that letter. They must have some faith this is going to work, right? 2018 is basically 6 months from now, no big deal, we'll see, we've survived this long without it.
But one thing that is starting to haunt me, is there is only Beps, and a couple others claiming this is legit. Knowing full well there likely a gag order, could it be that that few respond to this. And those pictures, how much worse can they be, they look like they we're shot on a point a shoot 35mm camera, then photocopied, and then scanned into that report. Anyhow, im hopeful this is the real deal still, however my faith is atrophying as time wanes and no further news has emerged.
But one thing that is starting to haunt me, is there is only Beps, and a couple others claiming this is legit. Knowing full well there likely a gag order, could it be that that few respond to this. And those pictures, how much worse can they be, they look like they we're shot on a point a shoot 35mm camera, then photocopied, and then scanned into that report. Anyhow, im hopeful this is the real deal still, however my faith is atrophying as time wanes and no further news has emerged.
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pharmaceutical industry discretion is a good sign, that's the norme.
the thing that bothers me about all this is why only "their special ratio" of PGE1;DGLA/equol does work ?
DGLA or PGE1 should work on its own when you read brotzu's explication about it.
and the amount of equol used is very small. it won't do much. this lotion is about DGLA, and it should work on its own.
his vasodilatation experiment on a person with diabetes is what made him discover that it can grow hair.
why did it work then but not now ?
also look at this rookie mistake
he is defining S-equol as a 5aR blocker, which is not the case, it is a DHT blocker.
To be honest I'm surprised beps and whomever else even spoke about it. I say those because I'm sure there are non disclosure agreements and also not many people even think to seek out hairloss forums to talk about it, especially if they're told not to.
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I wonder if anyone tried to use their jizz as a topical against hairloss, it might be the cure we have been looking for.
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Might try that soon, at the moment I'm on the bigger 3.
Nizoral + minoxidil + Dankness
100% Side effect free.