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Where did you read it was Fidia who added s equol to the formulation? Brotzu claimed halting of hair fall from his trial so it must have invluded s equol too?
Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016
- Thread starter paleocapa89
- Start date
Where did you read it was Fidia who added s equol to the formulation? Brotzu claimed halting of hair fall from his trial so it must have invluded s equol too?
There is still a chance that you won't even see this lotion on the market. It's better to stop dreaming of a "cure" and asking dumb questions, just wait till April 14.
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His original formula for diabetes did not have S-equol. Like Beps said, they started to use the updated lotion fidia made since like 2016
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I will lay siege to the US branch of Fidia if they don't release
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Idk, but get a body hair transplant?
hanginginthewire
Senior Member
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I left some voicemails for Dr. Brotzu.
Never said it was a cure you delusional f***
I've had many a dealings with this dumb c***, so, lemme tell ya, it ain't even worth it, man. Guy's so stupid his hair doesn't even wanna be associated with him.
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Has anyone tried to estimate the price based on the patent declared quantities?
I see that only the S-equol contained by the lotion (7 mg) would cost around 100$, since the price for 10ml is 128$.
Is anyone around here with enough knowledge on this field that could try to calculate an aproximate price?
I see that only the S-equol contained by the lotion (7 mg) would cost around 100$, since the price for 10ml is 128$.
Is anyone around here with enough knowledge on this field that could try to calculate an aproximate price?
Nobody have any ideas about the prices. But even if it’s 200$, people will going to buy them and use them
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Its hard to say if they are producing it on an industrial scale......their prices bought in huge bulk from tendered suppliers will be far cheaper than joe balding blogs asking for 10ml from an unknown supplier.
I'd imagine they will price it at the point they don't lock out a huge amount of people, while still making a decent profit.....so a random guess will be around 100 Euro.....but that pure speculation.
I'd imagine they will price it at the point they don't lock out a huge amount of people, while still making a decent profit.....so a random guess will be around 100 Euro.....but that pure speculation.
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Yes, if you have the patience to read, this thread on IESON, used by spatolatorefolle to organize the group buy for the fake lotion, contains a lot of research and debates about the price:
http://www.ieson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=70401
The key fact is that the price goes down a lot if who buys is a society or a pharmaceutical company. Private sales are intended for personal and experimental uses, so highly taxed and price goes up a lot.
Brotzu, if I remember well, used Chinese suppliers for S-Equol, but for DGLA he had plenty since he worked in a hospital for his entire career. However in the patent the suppliers are specified and they are quite cheap. In the thread spoke also beps63 / Giuseppe Brotzu to clarify the suppliers used and the general prices.
Also, in a post on the private FB group, as we always remember periodically, he personally said that he really expects that the lotion will cost "well below 100€ per month". I'm not saying that, though, unfortunately pharma companies are like sharks when it comes to sales and marketings, so we can't know until it's out.
Yeah, the original formula used to treat diabetic patients contained only PGE1 incapsulated in liposomes, but some time after, I think around the time they switched PGE1 with DGLA, they added the equol and patented the DGLA+Equol lotion as a cosmetic. Only then the pharma companies became interested, and FIDIA was the first to buy the patent, but they added/changed nothing. Everything was developed by Brotzu's equipe.
This is a quite obscure point that still bugs me today because the doctor was elusive.
He said that shortly after a male nurse tried the remedy with PGE1 to stop his male pattern baldness, they found out it was somewhat effective, hence the idea to create a lotion. It seems he tested it on some volunteers, who said they were his friends and stuff, but he never showed any photos. He said he had to ask the permission and said also they didn't scientifically document those first trials because at that time they had zero experience with this dermatology stuff like pull test, scalp biopsies, trichograms (...). Then FIDIA acwuired all the rights and I guess they blocked every possible leakage. It's rational to think they acquired the rights on everything that was not published at that time.
In another interview, Brotzu said "at the beginning, we tried the lotion on something like 100 AGAs".
In this interview ( https://www.google.it/amp/s/www.calvizie.net/intervista-al-prof-brotzu-un-di-cagliari/amp/ ) he says that they experimented with PGE1 but they chose to not consider those results for scientific fairness. Also, in another question below, he says "yes, a photograpgical documentation does exist, but now we are conducting a better organized experimentation and studies and we are still going".
However, if I remember well, recently the son told to Clockwise (or was another user?) that the only photos on Androgenetic Alopecia they had were his and all the other documents were kept by Fidia. Maybe this includes the first experimentations too ?
Well, it's correct but remember that Minoxidil ways of action are not fully understood yet, aside from vasodilation it was studied that it promoted Anagen phase on the target organs (but I'm too lazy to provide the link) and the stuff of the opening of Potassium channels (...).
But what I mean is, as I always remember since I've re-read InBeforeTheCure's post, that Minoxidil and PGE1 work on the same pathways! Even he said that it is possible to surpass the big 3 on efficacy basing on the premises. His post:
This shows PGE2, but PGE1 binds to the same receptors -- effects might be a little different upon PGE1 binding, or due to differences in cell type (image from Dey et al.).
Marubayashi et al. observed increased intracellular calcium in minoxidil-treated DPCs. Han et al. found that minoxidil enhanced hair growth in organ culture, and that this effect was dependent on minoxidil-induced ERK and Akt phosphorylation. Kwack et al. also found phosphorylation of Akt (PKB), increased PKA phosphorylation, GSK-3beta phosphorylation (and consequently increased beta-catenin stabilization and transcription of beta-catenin target genes, obviously very important for hair growth!) in minoxidil-treated DPCs. And we also know about upregulation of VEGF (Lachgar et al.and again Marubayashi et al.) -- VEGF of course binds to VEGFR in endothelial cells to effect angiogenesis. All this is why I said minoxidil and PGE1 act on similar pathways.
Well, this however confirms your point - it's possible that we could have Minoxidil benefits even on people who lack the sulphotransferase enzyme, unless we discover that people could lack the enzyme that converts DGLA to PGE1 too; however, DGLA has in common a lot of qualities with his biochemical successor, so not having PGE1 could not even be a problem.
This is pseudo-broscience obviously.
Me too, I am not expecting dramatic regrowth because recovering 2 NWs is very hard to believe. Even 1 Norwood grade, if "dense", is a lot of hair, for NW3 I saw on BelliCapelli an interesting and skilled surgeon in Spain named De Freitas (who is really amazing I admit) who does miracles on quite-low-NWs but he uses a lot of Follicular Units, something like 3000 for a dense pack for a NW3. We also know that even the most dense transplant differs from original density by a fair amount of hair - even if I don't remember exactly how much. It seems really hard to believe that the combination of a fatty acid and a plant estrogen does miracles so big.
This, unfortunately, seems confirmed, I repeat, by the current state of G.brotzu's hair who was saying he recovered 2 NWs but people close to him said that he is still bald. Now, I repeat, I didn't see his hairs personally nor in photos, but people close to him do not see any changes in his hair. I think 2 NWs could really be noticeable by anyone, unless he keeps shaving or he recovered a Norwood "outline" with only peach fuzz or vellus hair. And this is my biggest fear: I agree this is for sure not a scam, but it could be a dud in the sense that maybe Brotzu and his crew, since at the beginning they were not accompanied by dermatologists nor even "schooled" on the Alopecia theme, got exalted by a bunch of vellus of regrowth. Re-gaining one or two DENSE NWs of regrowth could only mean that we found the highway to the "functional cure".
In the maintenance aspect, we can't even say that if we see dramatic regrowth at SITRI's we could expect it, because Minoxidil is generally regarded as more powerful than finasteride, but the last is the only able to maintain results over time. And since the study is only 6 months long (given the abstract) I think we'll have to find out it by ourselves, with all the paranoia that will come with being unsure if you're holding or not during the months (
).But hey, that's what the first users of finasteride had to do too. Merck' s studies were not 10 years follow-ups.
However I think the possibilities are there; the user I mentioned before, told us also that maintenance should come basing on how good is the Equol to keep DHT at bay. It's not that bad, but speaking about circulating DHT, it's nowhere near finasteride. However we want to block it only on the hair follicles and that's where liposomes come in our help. Also, we should not forget the double front of action of S-Equol: it acts also as good agonist on the estrogen receptor beta, so he has also "estrogen powers" to help us.
I mean, there are a lot of good premises, but we'll find out something only at the congress. The exciting thing is that Brotzu will talk for 30 minutes and I assume he will do just a brief revision on the mechanisms of action, since he explained them in 2 presentations at 2016 SITRI. I think the majority of those 30 mins will be about presenting FIDIA's studies.
Since he doesn't know, as he said to me in the email of last week, the release date, I highly doubt that FIDIA's masters will tell him the date the day before the presentation. In this regard, I was surfing yesterday evening the FIDIA's website and usually they make a post after the presentations. The most recent one is really similar to what's happening with Brotzu:
https://www.fidiapharma.com/en/news...-patients-with-papillary-bladder-cancer,3,138
They even committed the presentation of THEIR study to an external professor, just like with Brotzu! So I'm expecting news from them some time after the congress.
If I had a lotion that has even 1% of curing baldness. Whole f*****g world would know about it. Like stability matters, only thing that matters is money.
So NW2 regrowth claims are false information. I hope it can just maintain out hair without any further lost. But also I see ‘alternative lotion’ users resulys and it gives me hope. Maybe Dr.Brotzu couldn’t get much back since he is old and he specifically said it’s good for young people who’s on their 20s. I don’t know if i should believe in this lotion or not. However we will find out soon enough if this lotion is good or bad. Can’t wait till April 14th. And thanks for the new infos!!Yes, if you have the patience to read, this thread on IESON, used by spatolatorefolle to organize the group buy for the fake lotion, contains a lot of research and debates about the price:
http://www.ieson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=70401
The key fact is that the price goes down a lot if who buys is a society or a pharmaceutical company. Private sales are intended for personal and experimental uses, so highly taxed and price goes up a lot.
Brotzu, if I remember well, used Chinese suppliers for S-Equol, but for DGLA he had plenty since he worked in a hospital for his entire career. However in the patent the suppliers are specified and they are quite cheap. In the thread spoke also beps63 / Giuseppe Brotzu to clarify the suppliers used and the general prices.
Also, in a post on the private FB group, as we always remember periodically, he personally said that he really expects that the lotion will cost "well below 100€ per month". I'm not saying that, though, unfortunately pharma companies are like sharks when it comes to sales and marketings, so we can't know until it's out.
Yeah, the original formula used to treat diabetic patients contained only PGE1 incapsulated in liposomes, but some time after, I think around the time they switched PGE1 with DGLA, they added the equol and patented the DGLA+Equol lotion as a cosmetic. Only then the pharma companies became interested, and FIDIA was the first to buy the patent, but they added/changed nothing. Everything was developed by Brotzu's equipe.
This is a quite obscure point that still bugs me today because the doctor was elusive.
He said that shortly after a male nurse tried the remedy with PGE1 to stop his male pattern baldness, they found out it was somewhat effective, hence the idea to create a lotion. It seems he tested it on some volunteers, who said they were his friends and stuff, but he never showed any photos. He said he had to ask the permission and said also they didn't scientifically document those first trials because at that time they had zero experience with this dermatology stuff like pull test, scalp biopsies, trichograms (...). Then FIDIA acwuired all the rights and I guess they blocked every possible leakage. It's rational to think they acquired the rights on everything that was not published at that time.
In another interview, Brotzu said "at the beginning, we tried the lotion on something like 100 AGAs".
In this interview ( https://www.google.it/amp/s/www.calvizie.net/intervista-al-prof-brotzu-un-di-cagliari/amp/ ) he says that they experimented with PGE1 but they chose to not consider those results for scientific fairness. Also, in another question below, he says "yes, a photograpgical documentation does exist, but now we are conducting a better organized experimentation and studies and we are still going".
However, if I remember well, recently the son told to Clockwise (or was another user?) that the only photos on Androgenetic Alopecia they had were his and all the other documents were kept by Fidia. Maybe this includes the first experimentations too ?
Well, it's correct but remember that Minoxidil ways of action are not fully understood yet, aside from vasodilation it was studied that it promoted Anagen phase on the target organs (but I'm too lazy to provide the link) and the stuff of the opening of Potassium channels (...).
But what I mean is, as I always remember since I've re-read InBeforeTheCure's post, that Minoxidil and PGE1 work on the same pathways! Even he said that it is possible to surpass the big 3 on efficacy basing on the premises. His post:
Well, this however confirms your point - it's possible that we could have Minoxidil benefits even on people who lack the sulphotransferase enzyme, unless we discover that people could lack the enzyme that converts DGLA to PGE1 too; however, DGLA has in common a lot of qualities with his biochemical successor, so not having PGE1 could not even be a problem.
This is pseudo-broscience obviously.
Me too, I am not expecting dramatic regrowth because recovering 2 NWs is very hard to believe. Even 1 Norwood grade, if "dense", is a lot of hair, for NW3 I saw on BelliCapelli an interesting and skilled surgeon in Spain named De Freitas (who is really amazing I admit) who does miracles on quite-low-NWs but he uses a lot of Follicular Units, something like 3000 for a dense pack for a NW3. We also know that even the most dense transplant differs from original density by a fair amount of hair - even if I don't remember exactly how much. It seems really hard to believe that the combination of a fatty acid and a plant estrogen does miracles so big.
This, unfortunately, seems confirmed, I repeat, by the current state of G.brotzu's hair who was saying he recovered 2 NWs but people close to him said that he is still bald. Now, I repeat, I didn't see his hairs personally nor in photos, but people close to him do not see any changes in his hair. I think 2 NWs could really be noticeable by anyone, unless he keeps shaving or he recovered a Norwood "outline" with only peach fuzz or vellus hair. And this is my biggest fear: I agree this is for sure not a scam, but it could be a dud in the sense that maybe Brotzu and his crew, since at the beginning they were not accompanied by dermatologists nor even "schooled" on the Alopecia theme, got exalted by a bunch of vellus of regrowth. Re-gaining one or two DENSE NWs of regrowth could only mean that we found the highway to the "functional cure".
In the maintenance aspect, we can't even say that if we see dramatic regrowth at SITRI's we could expect it, because Minoxidil is generally regarded as more powerful than finasteride, but the last is the only able to maintain results over time. And since the study is only 6 months long (given the abstract) I think we'll have to find out it by ourselves, with all the paranoia that will come with being unsure if you're holding or not during the months (
But hey, that's what the first users of finasteride had to do too. Merck' s studies were not 10 years follow-ups.
However I think the possibilities are there; the user I mentioned before, told us also that maintenance should come basing on how good is the Equol to keep DHT at bay. It's not that bad, but speaking about circulating DHT, it's nowhere near finasteride. However we want to block it only on the hair follicles and that's where liposomes come in our help. Also, we should not forget the double front of action of S-Equol: it acts also as good agonist on the estrogen receptor beta, so he has also "estrogen powers" to help us.
I mean, there are a lot of good premises, but we'll find out something only at the congress. The exciting thing is that Brotzu will talk for 30 minutes and I assume he will do just a brief revision on the mechanisms of action, since he explained them in 2 presentations at 2016 SITRI. I think the majority of those 30 mins will be about presenting FIDIA's studies.
Since he doesn't know, as he said to me in the email of last week, the release date, I highly doubt that FIDIA's masters will tell him the date the day before the presentation. In this regard, I was surfing yesterday evening the FIDIA's website and usually they make a post after the presentations. The most recent one is really similar to what's happening with Brotzu:
https://www.fidiapharma.com/en/news...-patients-with-papillary-bladder-cancer,3,138
They even committed the presentation of THEIR study to an external professor, just like with Brotzu! So I'm expecting news from them some time after the congress.
- Reaction score
- 475
Beps was balding for more than a decade. It's not realistic to believe that such damaged Norwoods grow back in 2 years.
It all depends on this: 1) Do the results increase over time, stay the same or decrease. If they always increase there is hope that over time those peach fuzz may turn terminal; 2) The usage period; 3) I almost forgot this, but personal response too.
+If WuWei's pics are legit, I even see regrowth on bald hairline spots.
+Alopecia Totalis woman's supply of lotion was cut, what if the same was true for beps, was he allowed to make lotion by FIDIA?
When those that have dense transplants comb their hair, their secret gets revealed.
I have several suggestions on how to increase results, however assuming this is legit and not a scam:
1)Double, triple the dosage (If no sides, the risk is way lower than 15% Minoxidil)
2)Dermaroll + this (follow somebody's protocol or wait for Follica)
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You realise if you walk into a media office its a bunch of reporters at desks. They cant just detect information and read minds around the world, they actually have to go find the information, or be told it. As Fidia isn't even an equity funded company there wouldn't be any use in even mentioning it to the press before you actually release it. Even if on the 14th we find it actually regrows hair, Fidia wont tell the press anything until its time to sell or they wouldn't get the benefit of the news impact on the public...not to mention it would be in the press in Italy only.
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- 1,401
While it is true G brotzu’s son did use the lotion, he is in his 50’s and has been a high Norwood (practically bald) for quite some time. This isn’t going to work on long lost hair when calcification / fibrosis has occurred to the point where the micro circulation in the scalp is too long gone to repair with a topical alone. Though maybe it is possible to get better results in combination with a wounding treatment like follica.
- Reaction score
- 1,253
5 years regrowth means nothing if you were bald in the same spot for 10 years