Joey's story

[skoko]

Hey guys, the brief story is as follow: started to notice rapid hair loss about november last year - went to two dermatologists who said it was Telogen Effluvium because of major surgery earlier in the year and it should go away.

It sort of got better for a while, then starting shedding again and went to a dermo a couple months ago, said still thought it was Telogen Effluvium/CTE but go on rogaine if worried to try to kick-start it.

Anyway I am beginning to disagree so I've been on rogaine foam for 2 weeks and finasteride 1.25mg(fincar/4) every day for the past week and nizoral 3 times per week.

The only problem is I have started to get sore eyes/bags under eyes which i THINK is from the rogaine foam - could be in my head though - could it be that i am applying to a wet scalp at times and it absorbs too much? any tips?

anyway here are some recent photos:

 

[setala]

Hey guys, the brief story is as follow: started to notice rapid hair loss about november last year - went to two dermatologists who said it was Telogen Effluvium because of major surgery earlier in the year and it should go away.

It sort of got better for a while, then starting shedding again and went to a dermo a couple months ago, said still thought it was Telogen Effluvium/CTE but go on rogaine if worried to try to kick-start it.

Anyway I am beginning to disagree so I've been on rogaine foam for 2 weeks and finasteride 1.25mg(fincar/4) every day for the past week and nizoral 3 times per week.

The only problem is I have started to get sore eyes/bags under eyes which i THINK is from the rogaine foam - could be in my head though - could it be that i am applying to a wet scalp at times and it absorbs too much? any tips?

anyway here are some recent photos:

looks like typical male pattern baldness to me..
you can do some bloodwork to make it absolutely sure.
sore eye is sign of Rogaine side.. but you can lower the dose, use it every other day..don't you have any side with finasteride?

 

[skoko]

Thanks for the reply mate.
No sides from finasteride as yet, but its only been a week fingers crossed. If its only slight loss of libido or whatever I can probably deal as I have that in spades.

As for the rogaine - I might see how I go and might reduce to 1x day if doesnt get any better.

do you think finasteride by itself would work or do you think i am too far gone?

do people usually get sore eyes as well, or just bags/dark - as mine are actually sore, watery etc so wondeirng if from something else.

and yeah im pretty sure male pattern baldness too, but might go back to dermo to get tested properly in a month or so for peace of mind.

also what norwood would you say i am on the hairline? cheers

 

[kabooski]

]Telogen Effluvium

Telogen effluvium (Telogen Effluvium) is probably the second most common form of hair loss dermatologists see. It is a poorly defined condition; very little research has been done to understand Telogen Effluvium. In essence though, Telogen Effluvium happens when there is a change in the number of hair follicles growing hair. If the number of hair follicles producing hair drops significantly for any reason during the resting, or telogen phase, there will be a significant increase in dormant, telogen stage hair follicles. The result is shedding, or Telogen Effluvium hair loss.

Telogen Effluvium appears as a diffuse thinning of hair on the scalp, which may not be even all over. It can be a bit more severe in some areas of the scalp than others. Most often, the hair on top of the scalp thins more than it does at the sides and back of the scalp. There is usually no hair line recession, except in a few rare chronic cases.

The shed hairs are typically telogen hairs, which can be recognized by a small bulb of keratin on the root end. Whether the keratinized lump is pigmented or unpigmented makes no difference; the hair fibers are still typical telogen hairs.

People with Telogen Effluvium never completely lose all their scalp hair, but the hair can be noticeably thin in severe cases. While Telogen Effluvium is often limited to the scalp, in more serious cases Telogen Effluvium can affect other areas, like the eyebrows or pubic region.

Whatever form of hair loss Telogen Effluvium takes, it is fully reversible. The hair follicles are not permanently or irreversibly affected; there are just more hair follicles in a resting state than there should normally be.

There are three basic ways Telogen Effluvium can develop.

1. There might be an environmental insult that "shocks" the growing hair follicles so much that they decide to go into a resting state for a while. This results in an increase in hair shedding and a diffuse thinning of hair on the scalp. This form of Telogen Effluvium can develop rapidly and may be noticeable one or two months after receiving the shock. If the trigger is short lived, then the hair follicles will return to their growing state and start producing new hair fibers pretty quickly. This form of Telogen Effluvium usually lasts less than six months and the affected individual has a normal scalp hair density again within a year.

2. The second form of Telogen Effluvium develops more slowly and persists longer. The hair follicles may not all suddenly shed their hair fibers and enter a resting telogen state. Rather, the follicles may enter a resting state as they normally would, but instead of returning to a new anagen hair growing state after a month or two, they stay in their telogen state for a prolonged period of time.

This results in a gradual accumulation of hair follicles in a telogen state and progressively fewer and fewer anagen hair follicles are left growing hair. In this form of Telogen Effluvium, there may not be much noticeable hair shedding, but there will be a slow thinning of the scalp hair. This form of Telogen Effluvium is more likely to occur in response to a persistent trigger factor.

3. In a third type of Telogen Effluvium, the hair follicles do not stay in a resting state but rather cycle through truncated growth cycles. When this happens, the individual experiences thin scalp hair and persistent shedding of short, thin hair fibers.

Causes of Telogen Effluvium: Stress and Diet

What are the trigger factors for Telogen Effluvium? The short answer is many and varied. Classic short-term Telogen Effluvium often happens to women soon after giving birth. Called postpartum alopecia, the sudden change in hormone levels at birth is such a shock to the hair follicles that they shut down for a while. There may be some significant hair shedding, but most women regrow their hair quickly.
Similarly, vaccinations, crash dieting, physical trauma such as being in a car crash, and having surgery can sometimes be a shock to the system and a proportion of scalp hair follicles go into hibernation. As the environmental insult passes and the body recovers, the Telogen Effluvium subsides and there is new hair growth.

Some drugs may also induce Telogen Effluvium, especially antidepressants. Often a switch to a different drug resolves the issue.

More persistent insults can result in more persistent Telogen Effluvium. For example, a chronic illness may lead to Telogen Effluvium. Arguably, the two most common problems are chronic stress and diet deficiency. Many dermatologists believe chronic stress can gradually exert a negative effect on hair growth and lead to persistent Telogen Effluvium. Research with animal models has provided evidence to back up this claim. There does indeed seem to be a link between stress, a change in hair follicle biochemistry, and more hair follicles entering a telogen resting state.

Whether dietary problems are causing Telogen Effluvium in North America is hotly argued among dermatologists. A lack of a mineral, vitamin, or essential amino acid can certainly cause Telogen Effluvium, such as with people in third world countries where diets can be completely deficient in one or more nutrients. Animal experiments also provide supporting evidence.

In first world countries the average diet is rarely completely deficient in a particular vitamin or mineral. However, some dermatologists claim that with a reduction in red meat intake and a preference for vegetarian diets, some individuals are not getting a balanced intake of all the nutrients required for good hair and overall body growth. In particular, there are claims that women may be deficient in their iron intake. Why women specifically? Because women lose iron at regular intervals as a result of menstruation.

Some dermatologists believe that as we now eat less red meat, a key source of iron, some people are not eating enough iron and Telogen Effluvium is the result. Other potential deficiencies of the modern North American diet -- such as a lack of zinc, amino acid L-lysine, or vitamins B6 and B12 -- have also been suggested to contribute to Telogen Effluvium.

When dietary deficiencies are suspected, supplements may be taken. However, supplements themselves can cause problems. Our bodies can only process so much iron each day. At high doses, iron is toxic and this can itself cause hair loss. At really high doses, iron supplements will cause death. Vitamin A supplements can also cause a Telogen Effluvium reaction in some individuals, as excessive vitamin A can also be toxic.

Telogen Effluvium can occur on its own or as part of another disease. The early stages of androgenetic alopecia (male or female pattern baldness, Androgenetic Alopecia for short) are effectively Telogen Effluvium. Early Androgenetic Alopecia is characterized by an increase in resting telogen hair follicles. Someone in the early stages of Androgenetic Alopecia may have up to 40% of their scalp hair follicles in telogen.

Telogen Effluvium can also be a symptom of other conditions, such as inflammatory conditions like alopecia areata. Hair follicles are particularly sensitive to thyroid hormones and about one third of individuals with a thyroid disorder have Telogen Effluvium. Exposure to toxins can also cause Telogen Effluvium as one of many symptoms.

Treatments for Telogen Effluvium

How Telogen Effluvium is treated depends on what has activated it. For short-term Telogen Effluvium that can be linked to a trigger like surgery, the best response is to sit tight and wait for the follicles to recover of their own accord.

For persistent Telogen Effluvium, if the causal factor can be isolated, then the best method is to remove it. For example, if stress is the problem, stress reduction is the long-term answer. If a dietary deficiency appears on a blood test, then supplements can work. A deficiency in thyroid hormones can be treated with hormone supplements.

However, often a specific causal factor cannot be identified. If this is the case, there are few treatment options. Most dermatologists resort to prescribing minoxidil, a direct hair growth stimulator. Minoxidil can work well for some individuals with Telogen Effluvium, but if the underlying cause is still present, then minoxidil must be continued to block redevelopment of Telogen Effluvium. With removal of the trigger, minoxidil use can be stopped.

Before leaving the subject of Telogen Effluvium, here are a few words about natural hair shedding. Everyone sheds hair and you may see more hair shed at certain times of the year. Studies show that humans, at least in Northern Europe away from the equator, shed more hair in the fall and to a lesser extent in the spring.

This temporary increase in the number of telogen hair follicles and shed hair is probably due to changes in hormones in response to changes in daylight exposure. Studies in mink and other mammals show that daylight exposure significantly alters prolactin levels and that prolactin has a significant effect on molting. As with mink and other mammals, humans probably have much the same molting response. Such hair loss should be temporary.

__________________________________________________________________________
The part about small keratin root (bulb) end
My shed hairs have a very small bulb just bigger then the hair shaft itself. Are yours the same?

 

[skoko]

Hey Kabooski - not exactly sure what you were trying to point out there about Telogen Effluvium - I had read heaps about it when I first saw the dermos.

I definitely had Telogen Effluvium at some stage - but it may have now unmasked Androgenetic Alopecia who knows - but I was and still am losing telogen hairs (i.e. with bulbs) but now possibly with minituarized hairs?

also i lose my eyebrows it seems and possibly pubic so perhaps i still have both at same time...

 

[skoko]

Sorry mate, just saw the end of your reply - yes that's what they look like, but now of all shapes and sizes too.

 

[setala]

Thanks for the reply mate.
No sides from finasteride as yet, but its only been a week fingers crossed. If its only slight loss of libido or whatever I can probably deal as I have that in spades.

As for the rogaine - I might see how I go and might reduce to 1x day if doesnt get any better.

do you think finasteride by itself would work or do you think i am too far gone?

do people usually get sore eyes as well, or just bags/dark - as mine are actually sore, watery etc so wondeirng if from something else.

and yeah im pretty sure male pattern baldness too, but might go back to dermo to get tested properly in a month or so for peace of mind.

also what norwood would you say i am on the hairline? cheers

Blood test can also help you map your hormone level for future reference..Finastrade reduces 5alpha reductase II thereby inhibit dht production in your body upto 60~70% within 6months.good responders get result within 2~3months..Nevertheless, this drug can give you potential sexual sides like impotence, ED, watery semen, decrease in sperm count etc..I took finasteride over few months, which worked great, but gave me notorious sexual sides..it took over 3months to recover watery semen, but I'm still suffering ED and impotence..FYI, dht, 5alpha reductase also plays significant role in our body..just be careful..good luck.

 

[kabooski]

setala how long after taking finasteride did you start to see the manifestations of side effects?

I've been on it for 7 days first 5 days at 0.5mg now 1mg.

 

[setala]

Within a month, I noticed drastic reduction in semen volume, also got huge fatigue despite me sleeping over 8hours a day..
ED,impotence came thereafter.

 

[skoko]

hey guys, any idea of what norwood i am as a baseline?

 

[Evol]

i think your hairline looks fine

 

[skoko]

Quick update: Got my scalp biopsy results back from dermo - pretty much as could be expected mixed Androgenetic Alopecia with CTE. So pretty depressing but at least I finally know for sure! haha.

So I've been on finasteride for about a month now, but can't continue rogaine until after i get my stitches out next week.

I also want to get a shorter haircut next week to make rogaine etc easier - any suggestions for my type of hair/hairloss?

 

[skoko]

2 months in on 1/4 proscar a day.

May be losing slightly less hair but can't really tell? The thing I am worried about is that I am still v itchy at times - is it a bad sign that the finasteride hasn't taken away the itch yet?

 

[skoko]

4 months in on 1/4 proscar a day. plus nizoral, and starting rogaine foam again (but worried about eye side effects but could be pruely paranoid).

May be losing slightly less hair but can't really tell? The thing I am worried about is that I am still v itchy at times - is it a bad sign that the finasteride hasn't taken away the itch yet?

It's generic proscar (finnicar) and i'm a little worried that might be the problem? but it is genuine over the counter rather than online so that should be ok...

below are some photos.. let me know what you think. if anything i think ive got worse?/

by the way, both of these are relatively wet hair, i tried to upload a dry one but didnt work for some reason..

 

[skoko]

dry hair

 

[WillNotLetItHappen]

I'm very much in the same boat. 3 1/2 months on finasteride and minoxidil and nizoral. My itch has returned too lately and I seem to be shedding more currently. It is hard. I think you have improved from looking at your pics. But you still have a lot of hair and I know from my own experience that the pics can be very misleading because you can still make it look good or bad.

I think it both our cases it is too early to tell if things work. I'm definitely seeing lots of regrowing fuzzy hair on my hairline so I'm hoping it is the same all over my head.

Just keep continuing your regimen and try not to worry about the itch too much. Mine was completely gone but now returned. Also my eyes are very red and burning after minoxidil but I can live with that. So maybe you want to reduce usage.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[RSR38]

Well I have had absolutely amazing results on the Big 3 and am at 19 months now. I distinctly remember that month 3 was the absolute worst for me. I had the itch (and I had rarely even had it prior), I had red bumps on my scalp, I was shedding tons of hair and I figured I was fucked. But during month 4 and 5 things turned around and by month 8, I was way above my low point. Keep it up guys and push through!

 

[skoko]

RSR did you use generic or genuine finasteride?
Also Rogaine foam or liquid? Did you haven any side effects from the Rogaine?
Thanks!

 

[WillNotLetItHappen]

Well I have had absolutely amazing results on the Big 3 and am at 19 months now. I distinctly remember that month 3 was the absolute worst for me. I had the itch (and I had rarely even had it prior), I had red bumps on my scalp, I was shedding tons of hair and I figured I was f***ed. But during month 4 and 5 things turned around and by month 8, I was way above my low point. Keep it up guys and push through!

unk: thanks dude, this is very encouraging. Your story is amazing. Hope the same will work for us...

:bravo:

 

[skoko]

Update, about 5 months in on quartered generic proscar daily, and nizoral 3 times a week and rogaine foam (about a month). still shedding a fair bit of hair in the shower, and i think i've noticed increased shedding since the rogaine but i've sort of put that down to the foam rather than my hair necessarily getting worse.

ive attached three pictures, one wet and dry yesterdya before haircut, and today after a haircut. had a weird experience actually - i have been a bit paranoid lately about getting haircuts, especially if they wash your hair thoroughly first, but then near the end she said "your hair is so thick" and I'm like "excuse me, where??" and she said something about all over but near the back, so i was quite surprised to say the least haha. it's put me in a better mood.

she might have no idea, but she could have said worse things! haha.

what do you guys think of my progress? still getting worse/better/no difference?