Lots of New Info on Follica

[Pray The Bald Away]

I've read that hair transplant surgeons will transplant anywhere from 25 to 35 FU per square cm in a given session. I doubt we could get that from a few bottles of Rogaine.

What does rogain have to do with this? And how many hairs are in a follicular unit?

 

[hellouser]

Yeah but only if you can do it on an area that already has hair. Do you think that will be an option?

I think it would be... as long as your not destroying existing follicles in order to make new ones. I doubt that it'd happen considering you'd have to go about 5mm deep before you start damaging/destroying the follicles. Having said that, pretty sure Follica would take a dilemma like that into consideration.

 

[NewUser]

What does rogain have to do with this? And how many hairs are in a follicular unit?

There can be 1-hair FUs and 2 and 3 I think.

Rogaine? Nothing just that it is currently one of two benchmark drug treatments for baldness. What we want is something better than the big two or three or whatever it is. From what I've read about Follica's proposed treatment, and I've only skimmed a few articles, it appears that 100 hairs per cm^2 can be expected: 25 terminal and the rest neogenic. So I'm guessing their procedure will both stimulate growth of existing follicles that have not disappeared/regressed into ordinary skin cells as well as create new follicles.

I've read that non-balding scalps have quite a range of densities and anywhere from 300 down to as few as 160 per cm^2 depending on whether you're a Nordic type with dense but fine hair or perhaps Asian in ethnicity with quite thick hairs but fewer of them per square cm. And then there is everyone else in between. Apparently balding becomes noticable at a loss of 50% of original density.

As for Rogaine, I think it's not much good for completely bald scalps or widow's peaks that have been bald long time. Little to no neogenesis happening with Rogaine. But I think Follica could be a game-changer for Norwood 4s to 6s and maybe even 7s, too. Exciting stuff for sure. They seem to be a serious bunch at Follica having secured what looks to be more patents related to hair growth than anyone else. Things are looking very good I'd say.

 

[GoldenMane]

Wasn't paying attention to this at all, but exciting if true, an extra 25 new hairs per cm2 could make a massive difference for diffuse thinners and give people with sparse hair coverage from transplants better coverage! And if those 75 vellus hairs could turn terminal, or at least be pigmented, they could make a massive difference.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

Rogaine? Nothing just that it is currently one of two benchmark drug treatments for baldness. What we want is something better than the big two or three or whatever it is. From what I've read about Follica's proposed treatment, and I've only skimmed a few articles, it appears that 100 hairs per cm^2 can be expected: 25 terminal and the rest neogenic. So I'm guessing their procedure will both stimulate growth of existing follicles that have not disappeared/regressed into ordinary skin cells as well as create new follicles.

I've read that non-balding scalps have quite a range of densities and anywhere from 300 down to as few as 160 per cm^2 depending on whether you're a Nordic type with dense but fine hair or perhaps Asian in ethnicity with quite thick hairs but fewer of them per square cm. And then there is everyone else in between.

As for Rogaine, I think it's not much good for completely bald scalps or widow's peaks that have been bald long time. Little to no neogenesis happening with Rogaine. But I think Follica could be a game-changer for Norwood 4s to 6s and maybe even 7s, too. Exciting stuff for sure. Things are looking good.

I'm curious how they'll be able to precisely restore a hairline.

 

[slam1523]

Can someone tell me at what point follicles cannot be revived? I'm an nw3, my hairline is thinning slowly, but my temples have been bald for 5+ years... Are they a lost cause for attempting to revive the follicles? I guess im curious like pray as to how this will work on receded hairlines... Will it only impact the thinning areas, or can you use it on slick bald areas with any expectations of regrowth?

 

[Tracksterderm]

I'm curious how they'll be able to precisely restore a hairline.

You just have to wound your head along the hairline. So you could probably have some protection below the hairline and just start cutting or wounding anything above :salut:

 

[Bad_Wolve]

can we get their device sooner? what are they injecting in the scalp?

 

[Torin]

Will these new hairs be durative and permanent or only remain as long as you use the device?

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

Why do they differentiate between neogenic and terminal hairs? Isn't the end goal of a neogenic hair to become a terminal hair? It's really bothering me that they make this ambiguous distinction. Do the neogenic hairs later turn into terminal hairs? Are the reported terminal hairs pre-existing follicles or are they neogenic as well? Those results seem to imply that they're littering your head with a ton of vellus hairs and just a few terminal ones. This pdf raised three questions for every question it answered!

 

[Blackber]

Why do they differentiate between neogenic and terminal hairs? Isn't the end goal of a neogenic hair to become a terminal hair? It's really bothering me that they make this ambiguous distinction. Do the neogenic hairs later turn into terminal hairs? Are the reported terminal hairs pre-existing follicles or are they neogenic as well? Those results seem to imply that they're littering your head with a ton of vellus hairs and just a few terminal ones. This pdf raised three questions for every question it answered!

I agree that they should list how many neogenic hairs are vellus vs terminal but I think the reason they're telling you how many hairs are neogenic is so they can show that their treatment is helpful for people with more severe hair loss.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

I agree that they should list how many neogenic hairs are vellus vs terminal but I think the reason they're telling you how many hairs are neogenic is so they can show that their treatment is helpful for people with more severe hair loss.

But are the terminal hairs not neogenic? In someone who is slick bald, what is the difference between neogenic and terminal? All the hairs, even the terminal ones, are neogenic. What's with the distinction?

 

[Blackber]

But are the terminal hairs not neogenic? In someone who is slick bald, what is the difference between neogenic and terminal? All the hairs, even the terminal ones, are neogenic. What's with the distinction?

Like I said they should give us more detailed information but I think they're just trying to emphasize new (neogenic) hair growth.

 

[Dales]

Do we agree that their procedure is basically dermabrasion to create new hairs and then minoxidil to turn them terminal ?

Is there a forum member willing to try dermabrasion on a small, slick bald part of their scalp ?

 

[Folliman]

Just as a passing comment, I want to say that I like how future treatments are no longer "5 to 10 years away." A lot is expected to be in the market by 2020. Has anyone else noticed that?

 

[Dragonborn]

Do we agree that their procedure is basically dermabrasion to create new hairs and then minoxidil to turn them terminal ?

Is there a forum member willing to try dermabrasion on a small, slick bald part of their scalp ?

I think its most likely that their device does a form of dermabrasion. However the exact details might be what sets it apart from other dermaroller like devices in terms of efficacy.
The drug in question is most likely minoxidil...
I think PrettyFly had some solid results from dermabrasion. However the main question does remain. What constitutes neogenic hair? If it is mostly velus which can't progress to terminal it won't help us much.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

I think its most likely that their device does a form of dermabrasion. However the exact details might be what sets it apart from other dermaroller like devices in terms of efficacy.
The drug in question is most likely minoxidil...
I think PrettyFly had some solid results from dermabrasion. However the main question does remain. What constitutes neogenic hair? If it is mostly velus which can't progress to terminal it won't help us much.

We may want to email Follica to get an idea of just what the hell a neogenic hair is. I'm inclined to believe it's just a fancy way of saying vellus.

 

[Noisette]

Neogenic hairs are follicle neogenesis, new follicles. Terminal hair are pre existing follicles on your scalp

This is a study from cotsarelis :

[h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]Here, we assessed the ability of CSLM to evaluate the formation of neogenic hair follicles after a full-thickness wound in mice.
[h=4]METHODS:[/h]Full-thickness wounds were made on the dorsal skin of 3-week-old mice. After scab detachment (SD), the number, width, length, space and volume of neogenic hair follicles were analyzed using CSLM. The results were compared with those from conventional methods, including staining for alkaline phosphatase (AP) and keratin 17 (K17) as well as histology.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]Quantification of neogenic hair follicles using CSLM compared favorably with the results from direct measurements on isolated epidermal tissue after immunostaining for K17, a marker for the epithelial portion of new hair follicles. CSLM detected 89% of K17-stained follicles. CSLM more accurately quantified the number of new follicles compared with AP staining, which detects the dermal portion of the new follicle. The width and length measurement from CSLM and histology were very close and correlated with each other. The minimum length of a neogenic hair follicle that could be detected by CSLM was 21 μm. The space between neogenic hair follicles was decreased in histological sections compared with CSLM.
[h=4]CONCLUSION:[/h]CSLM is an accurate and valuable method for counting and measuring neogenic hair follicles non-invasively. CSLM produces images similar to histology in mice. Measurements of microstructures using CSLM more accurately reflect actual sizes as this technique avoids fixation artifacts. In vivo visualization of developing follicles with CSLM allows the detection of serial changes in hair follicle formation, thus conserving the numbers of mice required for studies and improving the detection of temporal changes in developing hair follicles.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

Neogenic hairs are follicle neogenesis, new follicles. Terminal hair are pre existing follicles on your scalp

This is a study from cotsarelis :

OBJECTIVE:

Here, we assessed the ability of CSLM to evaluate the formation of neogenic hair follicles after a full-thickness wound in mice.
METHODS:

Full-thickness wounds were made on the dorsal skin of 3-week-old mice. After scab detachment (SD), the number, width, length, space and volume of neogenic hair follicles were analyzed using CSLM. The results were compared with those from conventional methods, including staining for alkaline phosphatase (AP) and keratin 17 (K17) as well as histology.
RESULTS:

Quantification of neogenic hair follicles using CSLM compared favorably with the results from direct measurements on isolated epidermal tissue after immunostaining for K17, a marker for the epithelial portion of new hair follicles. CSLM detected 89% of K17-stained follicles. CSLM more accurately quantified the number of new follicles compared with AP staining, which detects the dermal portion of the new follicle. The width and length measurement from CSLM and histology were very close and correlated with each other. The minimum length of a neogenic hair follicle that could be detected by CSLM was 21 μm. The space between neogenic hair follicles was decreased in histological sections compared with CSLM.
CONCLUSION:

CSLM is an accurate and valuable method for counting and measuring neogenic hair follicles non-invasively. CSLM produces images similar to histology in mice. Measurements of microstructures using CSLM more accurately reflect actual sizes as this technique avoids fixation artifacts. In vivo visualization of developing follicles with CSLM allows the detection of serial changes in hair follicle formation, thus conserving the numbers of mice required for studies and improving the detection of temporal changes in developing hair follicles.

God bless you Noisette! Will these neogenic hairs develop into thick terminal hairs?
And here are some pictures of the developing neogenic hair follicle germ everyone.

 

[Noisette]

Hey bro I think that the new ones are becoming into thick terminal hairs because according to Follica

"Follica’s patented platform employs a technique called targeted cutaneous perturbation (or TCP) to stimulate the growth of new follicles, followed by treatment with select, approved drugs indicated to be synergistic in maximising the quantity, quality and persistence of new hair, or in other cases (ii) new chemical entities that modulate pathways involved in the development of the hair follicle"



And they are developping news chemicals / products to prevent and treat hairloss