minoxidil 5% 3x is equal to Xandrox 15% 1x?

[LostAnagenCycle]

LMAO.

That solves nothing my friend!

Applying 2.5 times the required dosage of Minoxidil 2% DOES NOT turn it into Minoxidil 5% when you applied to your scalp.

I didn't say that it does. I said that they both turn into the same thing (saturated solutions of minoxidil in propylene glycol).

2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% leaves behind 2.5 times the recommended dosage of a saturated propylene glycol solution with a 2% concentrate of minoxidil.

WRONG. A saturated solution of propylene glycol contains around 7.5% to 10% minoxidil. Re-read my post CAREFULLY.

Applying 2.5 times the necessary dosage of Minoxidil 2% DOES NOT increase or transform the concentration of minoxidil in the saturated propylene glycol solution to become a Minoxidil 5% concentrate in the scalp.

Did you even bother to READ my post? Read it again, CAREFULLY this time.

The entire above cited response is useless, BUT I must point out the gross inaccuracy and misunderstanding in this gem:

2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% leaves behind 2.5 times the recommended dosage of a saturated propylene glycol solution with a 2% concentrate of minoxidil.

WRONG. A saturated solution of propylene glycol contains around 7.5% to 10%minoxidil. Re-read my post CAREFULLY.

This right here takes the cake.

Now, you want reasonable people to believe that the 2% and 5% concentrates or solutions of minoxidil become 7.5% to 10% when saturated in a solution of propylene glycol.

Propylene glycol intensifies or strengthens concentrates now?

I am through with this argument.

Does someone know a Pharm.D or Pharmacologist that can resolve this mess?

 

[Bryan]

Do you really not understand my last couple of posts at all, or are you just "playing dumb"?

 

[LostAnagenCycle]

Do you really not understand my last couple of posts at all, or are you just "playing dumb"?

Nobody that understands pharmacology, pharmacokinetics or chemistry understands what you are stating!

But, clearly, you are not going to admit your own failings.

 

[Bryan]

You were doing okay in this thread until you replied to my post from earlier this evening, so I don't think you're as dense as you're now pretending to be. In any event, I don't want to waste more time on your games. And if you really DON'T understand my post, then get a friend to explain it to you.

 

[LostAnagenCycle]

You were doing okay in this thread until you replied to my post from earlier this evening, so I don't think you're as dense as you're now pretending to be. In any event, I don't want to waste more time on your games. And if you really DON'T understand my post, then get a friend to explain it to you.

Thank you for the lukewarm approval.

You were doing fine until you got boxed into a corner and became incapable of admitting you are, in fact, WRONG!

Anyone with any understanding of the science at work in this thread will see that you posted a snippet from a study, then grossly distorted and misinterpreted the meaning of said snippet to support your misunderstanding of the pharmacology of Minoxidil 2% and 5%.

 

[LostAnagenCycle]

Bryan:

Lastly, I will add that I normally respect and value your opinions, insights and contributions to this Forum, but that does not insulate you from ever being wrong!

On this matter, you are just plain incorrect.

LAC

 

[sunray73]

Bryan:

Lastly, I will add that I normally respect and value your opinions, insights and contributions to this Forum, but that does not insulate you from ever being wrong!

On this matter, you are just plain incorrect.

LAC

Lets not continue feeding the troll... Think he's been fed enough.

 

[beaner]

Now, you want reasonable people to believe that the 2% and 5% concentrates or solutions of minoxidil become 7.5% to 10% when saturated in a solution of propylene glycol.

Why is this so hard to believe since the alcohol evaporates almost immediately leaving less solvent thus a higher concentration of minoxidil and ppg?

I have no idea whether it leaves a concentration of 7.5 to 10%, but I would think based on what I stated above, the concentration of minoxidil would still be higher than what was originally applied.

 

[asf]

An example is always helpfull.
let's take kirkland's minoxidil :
according to the manufacure it contains :

30% alcohol
50% ppg
5% minoxidil
15% water

suppose i use 100 mL on my head (just so we can easily calculate numbers) . according to that study the alcohol and water evaporate much quicker than the ppg+minoxidil which leaves 5 mL minoxidil + 50 mL ppg which is 55 mL of solution on my head . the % of minoxidil in that solution is 100*5/55 = 9% .

Do you acknowledge and accept that what I alluded to much earlier in this thread IS correct (applying 2 1/2 mL of 2% Rogaine is the same as applying 1 mL of 5% Rogaine, because they both turn into the same thing on the scalp)?

if i use the kirkland numbers :
1 mL of 5% minoxidil :
0.05 mL minoxidil
0.5 mL ppg
which leaves on the scalp a solution with 9% minoxidil .
2.5 mL of 2% minoxidil
0.05 mL minoxidil
1.25 mL ppg
which leaves on the scalp a solution with 4% minoxidil .

so it seems it dosent turn into the same thing on the scalp . the kirkland numbers are pretty much the same as rogaine .

does this look right to you ?

 

[Bryan]

Now, you want reasonable people to believe that the 2% and 5% concentrates or solutions of minoxidil become 7.5% to 10% when saturated in a solution of propylene glycol.

Why is this so hard to believe since the alcohol evaporates almost immediately leaving less solvent thus a higher concentration of minoxidil and ppg?

I have no idea whether it leaves a concentration of 7.5 to 10%, but I would think based on what I stated above, the concentration of minoxidil would still be higher than what was originally applied.

Exactly. Do you REALLY think LostAnagenCycle didn't understand any of that, or do you think he was just putting me on about the whole thing and "playing dumb"? I honestly don't know for sure which is the case...

 

[Bryan]

An example is always helpfull.
let's take kirkland's minoxidil :
according to the manufacure it contains :

30% alcohol
50% ppg
5% minoxidil
15% water

suppose i use 100 mL on my head (just so we can easily calculate numbers) . according to that study the alcohol and water evaporate much quicker than the ppg+minoxidil which leaves 5 mL minoxidil + 50 mL ppg which is 55 mL of solution on my head . the % of minoxidil in that solution is 100*5/55 = 9% .

A numerical example is always helpful! Hopefully, this will clarify things for "LostAnagenCycle". (That assumes, of course, that he didn't really understand the grade-school science in the first place! )

Do you acknowledge and accept that what I alluded to much earlier in this thread IS correct (applying 2 1/2 mL of 2% Rogaine is the same as applying 1 mL of 5% Rogaine, because they both turn into the same thing on the scalp)?

if i use the kirkland numbers :
1 mL of 5% minoxidil :
0.05 mL minoxidil
0.5 mL ppg
which leaves on the scalp a solution with 9% minoxidil .
2.5 mL of 2% minoxidil
0.05 mL minoxidil
1.25 mL ppg
which leaves on the scalp a solution with 4% minoxidil .

so it seems it dosent turn into the same thing on the scalp . the kirkland numbers are pretty much the same as rogaine .

does this look right to you ?

Nope. The error you're making is that 2% Rogaine contains only 20% propylene glycol. So if you apply 2.5 mL of 2% Rogaine, you end up with 0.2 x 2.5 = 0.5 mL of ppg. Since you're also applying 20 mg x 2.5 = 50 mg of minoxidil, you end up with 50 mg of minoxidil in 0.5 mL of ppg, which is EXACTLY THE SAME as what you get when you apply 1 mL of the 5% solution. That's why I say that they both turn into the same thing: a saturated solution of minoxidil in propylene glycol.

 

[LostAnagenCycle]

Sure, after the alcohol evaporates, the minoxidil concentration increases in comparison to the REMAINING propylene glycol solution vehicle left behind on the scalp, BUT you non-science folks are just plain mistaken if you think this somehow makes 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% turn into Minoxidil 5% on the scalp.

Anyone can see the following with regards to Minoxidil 5%: It is composed of (50mg minoxidil / mL) in a liquid base of 50% ethyl alcohol, 30% propylene glycol, and 20% water. When the ethyl alcohol and water evaporate, the remaining .30 mL of saturated solution of propylene glycol still contains the 50mg of minoxidil. This DOES NOT mean all of a sudden you are really using 16.666% minoxidil or 7.5% or 10%.

This is fuzzy math! Do the math yourselves and use logic!

When the evaporation occurs on the scalp, you are still left with 50mg of minoxidil in a saturated solution of propylene glycol. You can increase the dosage exponentially, but all you are really increasing is the saturated solution of propylene glycol, which STILL has a suspended quantity of MINOXIDIL 5% to be diffused throughout the purcutaneous layers.

UNDERSTAND?

Ask any pharmacologist. I challenge any pharmacologist to come on here and risk his or her reputation by stating that 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% (twice the recommended dosage) becomes Minoxidil 5%, 7.5%, or 10% based on the science proposed in this thread! Good luck finding any takers!

You people are beyond persuasion. Out.

P.S. Sunray73, hand this out to your new friends: :stupid:

 

[asf]

http://www.hairlosswatch.com/hair_regrowth.htm
it says here that the 2% version has the same inactive ingredients ratios as the 5% . but even with 20% ppg in the 2% version it's still leaves 0.5 mL ppg and 0.05 mL minoxidil which is 10% minoxidil in the saturated solution while the 1 mL of 5% leaves 9% minoxidil in the saturated solution .

 

[LostAnagenCycle]

http://www.hairlosswatch.com/hair_regrowth.htm
it says here that the 2% version has the same inactive ingredients ratios as the 5% . but even with 20% ppg in the 2% version it's still leaves 0.5 mL ppg and 0.05 mL minoxidil which is 10% minoxidil in the saturated solution while the 1 mL of 5% leaves 9% minoxidil in the saturated solution .

The 10% minoxidil you cited, while technically WRONG, is based on the percentages post-evaporation in comparison to the REMAINING propylene glycol vehicle left behind on the scalp.

2% Minoxdil Post-Evaporation = 20mg of minoxidil per .20 mL of propylene glycol = 10% Minoxidil out of the remaining solution vehicle carrier left behind on the scalp

5% Minoxidil Post-Evaporation = 50mg of minoxidil per .30 mL of propylene glycol = 16.666% Minoxidil out of the remaing solution vehicle carrier left behind on the scalp

This DOES NOT mean you are REALLY using 10% or 16.666% Minoxidil.

Sure, we can play with the numbers, BUT UNLESS you add more milligrams of minoxidil to your ORIGINAL solution, you CANNOT turn a solution of 2% or 5% into GREATER based solely on putting the solution on your scalp!!!!!!!

POINT: 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% DOES NOT turn into Minoxidil 5%, no matter what Bryan is now claiming!

Do you acknowledge and accept that what I alluded to much earlier in this thread IS correct (applying 2 1/2 mL of 2% Rogaine is the same as applying 1 mL of 5% Rogaine, because they both turn into the same thing on the scalp)?

Read Bryan's claims throughout the thread to see how he has distorted this thread!

unk:

 

[asf]

Nope. The error you're making is that 2% Rogaine contains only 20% propylene glycol. So if you apply 2.5 mL of 2% Rogaine, you end up with 0.2 x 2.5 = 0.5 mL of ppg. Since you're also applying 20 mg x 2.5 = 50 mg of minoxidil, you end up with 50 mg of minoxidil in 0.5 mL of ppg, which is EXACTLY THE SAME as what you get when you apply 1 mL of the 5% solution. That's why I say that they both turn into the same thing: a saturated solution of minoxidil in propylene glycol.

are you saying theres 20 mg minoxidil in 1 mL of rogaine solution ?

POINT: 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% DOES NOT turn into Minoxidil 5%, no matter what Bryan is now claiming!

I dont think he is claiming that . he didnt say it turns 2% minoxidil to 5% minoxidil or that using 2.5 mL of 2% is as effective as using 1 mL of 5% minoxidil . he just stated that by doing the above the result in means of saturated solution on the scalp are the same (but im still not convinced) . also he didnt say it will act the same post evaporation or that this saturated solution is as effective as a 7.5% or 10% solution .

 

[Bryan]

http://www.hairlosswatch.com/hair_regrowth.htm
it says here that the 2% version has the same inactive ingredients ratios as the 5% .

Note that that's the Kirkland brand of "Minoxidil for Women", not Rogaine. It's well-known that the 2% Rogaine vehicle contains 20% propylene glycol, 60% ethanol, and the rest water.

It may also be that that's simply an error on that Web site, and the Kirkland vehicle is really the same as the one for Rogaine.

but even with 20% ppg in the 2% version it's still leaves 0.5 mL ppg and 0.05 mL minoxidil which is 10% minoxidil in the saturated solution while the 1 mL of 5% leaves 9% minoxidil in the saturated solution .

You're exactly right (although you should say that there's 50 MILLIGRAMS of minoxidil in there, not 50 mL).

 

[Bryan]

are you saying theres 20 mg minoxidil in 1 mL of rogaine solution ?

Yes, of course. 1 mL of 2% Rogaine contains 20 mg of minoxidil.

POINT: 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% DOES NOT turn into Minoxidil 5%, no matter what Bryan is now claiming!

I dont think he is claiming that . he didnt say it turns 2% minoxidil to 5% minoxidil or that using 2.5 mL of 2% is as effective as using 1 mL of 5% minoxidil .

But I _do_ believe that using 2.5 mL of 2% Rogaine is as effective as using 1 mL of 5% Rogaine, because they turn into the same thing when you apply them to your scalp.

Now I suppose it's conceivable that the 2% may be slightly more effective than the 5%, since we're not taking into account the medical effect of the extra alcohol in the 2% version (see my previous posts on the issue of varying amounts of alcohol in topical vehicles). But that remains highly speculative. Based just on what ends up on the scalp after the alcohol and water have quickly evaporated, the two versions of Rogaine (dose-adjusted, of course) should be identical in efficacy.

 

[Bryan]

Sure, after the alcohol evaporates, the minoxidil concentration increases in comparison to the REMAINING propylene glycol solution vehicle left behind on the scalp, BUT you non-science folks are just plain mistaken if you think this somehow makes 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% turn into Minoxidil 5% on the scalp.

I have told you UMPTEEN different times that 2.5 mL of 2% Rogaine doesn't turn into 5% Rogaine on the scalp. Once the alcohol and water evaporate, 2% Rogaine and 5% Rogaine turn into the same thing: a saturated solution of minoxidil in propylene glycol.

Anyone can see the following with regards to Minoxidil 5%: It is composed of (50mg minoxidil / mL) in a liquid base of 50% ethyl alcohol, 30% propylene glycol, and 20% water.

WRONG. You've got your numbers mixed-up. The vehicle in 5% Rogaine consists of 50% propylene glycol, 30% ethyl alcohol, and the rest water.

When the ethyl alcohol and water evaporate, the remaining .30 mL of saturated solution of propylene glycol still contains the 50mg of minoxidil. This DOES NOT mean all of a sudden you are really using 16.666% minoxidil or 7.5% or 10%.

This is fuzzy math! Do the math yourselves and use logic!

Doing the math with the corrected numbers, you will have 50 mg of minoxidil dissolved in 0.5 mL of propylene glycol (at least, it'll be MOSTLY dissolved). The total mass of the solution will be 0.5 gram (lets assume for simplicity of calculation that 1 mL of propylene glycol weighs exactly 1 gram) + 50 mg of minoxidil, so the final concentration of minoxidil as it sits on your scalp will be 0.05 / 0.55 = 9% or so.

If the Merck Index is accurate when they say that the maximum concentration of minoxidil in propylene glycol is only about 7.5%, then obviously it won't make it all the way to 9%. If the Upjohn scientists are correct when they say that the maximum concentration is about 10%, then it _will_ make it to 9%.

When the evaporation occurs on the scalp, you are still left with 50mg of minoxidil in a saturated solution of propylene glycol. You can increase the dosage exponentially, but all you are really increasing is the saturated solution of propylene glycol, which STILL has a suspended quantity of MINOXIDIL 5% to be diffused throughout the purcutaneous layers.

You seem very very confused. Please review the arithmetic I did for you above. If you have 50 mg dissolved in half a gram of propylene glycol, then you have about a 9% solution (unless the solubility is limited to 7.5%). Do you have a calculator? DO THE NUMBERS.

Ask any pharmacologist. I challenge any pharmacologist to come on here and risk his or her reputation by stating that 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% (twice the recommended dosage) becomes Minoxidil 5%, 7.5%, or 10% based on the science proposed in this thread! Good luck finding any takers!

LOL!! My friend, you are one of the most confused people I've ever talked to on this site.

 

[beaner]

Exactly. Do you REALLY think LostAnagenCycle didn't understand any of that....

Lol, I think the answer is clear at this point!

 

[LostAnagenCycle]

Exactly. Do you REALLY think LostAnagenCycle didn't understand any of that....

Lol, I think the answer is clear at this point!

Explain where I am incorrect douchebag?

You people are the RETARDS.

Here, are the ingredients for Dr. Lee's standard Minoxidil 5%: 5% minoxidil (50mg minoxidil / mL) in a liquid base of 50% ethyl alcohol, 30% propylene glycol, and 20% water.

Thus, post-evaporation of the .5 mL ethyl alcohol and .2 mL of water, you would have 50 mg of minoixidil suspended in a .3 mL saturated solution of propylene glycol.

Bryan is the one that made the idiotic claim that 2.5 mL of Minoxidil 2% becomes Minoxidil 5% on the scalp! LMAO.