More Childless Men: Women Do Not Want Children With Low-status Men

[Rudiger]

I am not talking about isolating yourself in an underground bunker. I am talking a conscience decision not to have long term relationships. A conscience decision not to put all your trust in a woman.

Yes I was meant to address this, I know it's not the end of social interaction but really, day-by-day, as you get older your friends will be there less and less. It's not like when you were 20, you don't just randomly pop around to a friends house going home from work, you disrupt their lives when doing so. Any social interaction is planned, and becomes more and more rare.

Unless you're in a long-term relationship I think for the most part you end up very lonely a lot of the time.

 

[Exodus2011]

being in a monogamous long term marriage goes against nature and instinct. WE made up the rules. A bunch of dumb asses that are destroying each other and the planet made up these rules.

Monogamy is natural, some other species do it too

 

[buckthorn]

Are you totally sure all of your friends are as miserable as you think? Do you watch out for signs of unhappiness and apply it to them generally?

I have seven close friends that have been married at least seven years. I have talked in depth with five of them, because I am that friend that people really, really open up to. Yes, all of them borderline hate their spouses. Hate is a strong word, but they just can't stand them. Maybe it's just my group. Maybe we are all mentally fucked? i have no idea. But they used to seem so happy. Two are strongly considering divorce. One of them just openly argue and yell at each other in front of other people. I have no idea wtf is happening.

 

[buckthorn]

Monogamy is natural, some other species do it too

some other species do it because it is what's good for their species, although this seems counter intuitive. Birds don't "fall in love". Humans "fall in love"... which is a beautiful, amazing feeling that I myself have felt and do not deny. But, you don't see chimps being monagomous.

 

[buckthorn]

Yes I was meant to address this, I know it's not the end of social interaction but really, day-by-day, as you get older your friends will be there less and less. It's not like when you were 20, you don't just randomly pop around to a friends house going home from work, you disrupt their lives when doing so. Any social interaction is planned, and becomes more and more rare.

Unless you're in a long-term relationship I think for the most part you end up very lonely a lot of the time.

agreed. In my case, I have a dog, family that lives close, a couple friends and I converse with people all the time at the gym, groups, etc... it's impossible to be completely alone in this world unless you're really, really introverted.

 

[buckthorn]

damn, wolves are monogamous? bad ***. Never mind, I would like to retract every comment.

 

[Rudiger]

I have seven close friends that have been married at least seven years. I have talked in depth with five of them, because I am that friend that people really, really open up to. Yes, all of them borderline hate their spouses. Hate is a strong word, but they just can't stand them. Maybe it's just my group. Maybe we are all mentally fucked? i have no idea. But they used to seem so happy. Two are strongly considering divorce. One of them just openly argue and yell at each other in front of other people. I have no idea wtf is happening.

Thanks because that's like actual examples instead of someone vaguely going "all couples just hate each other!!!!11"

It might be just your group, because to me that's crazy, and of course are terrible examples for you to move forward with (especially as your parents didn't help).

If I was to put a guess on the number of miserable couples I know, there's definitely a significant amount, like up to maybe a quarter? Who constantly seem frustrated with each other. Nowhere near as dramatic as your experience but still, if it's like 20% of people, that's a huge risk if you're cynical about long-term relationships.

Well I understand while you feel this way, but I'd try and remain open-minded to some extent. Like I say, if someone can live happily alone and never need a long-term relationship, then I can't argue with that, the thing is, as explained, I just find that like 99% of people can't live happily like that. If you're one of the rare few then good luck with that.

 

[Rudiger]

damn, wolves are monogamous? bad ***. Never mind, I would like to retract every comment.

Haahahaha! Classic.

 

[CaptainForehead]

I have seven close friends that have been married at least seven years. I have talked in depth with five of them, because I am that friend that people really, really open up to. Yes, all of them borderline hate their spouses. Hate is a strong word, but they just can't stand them. Maybe it's just my group. Maybe we are all mentally fucked? i have no idea. But they used to seem so happy. Two are strongly considering divorce. One of them just openly argue and yell at each other in front of other people. I have no idea wtf is happening.

Interesting. How about your parents?
@WhitePolarBear parents marriage is hanging by a thread.
@Exodus2011 parents divorced.
I think @EvilLocks parents are ok-ish
@Afro_Vacancy parents seperated I think
My parents marriage was not a happy one. Emotional abuse on part of my father. No love involved.

Any other members want to chime in about their parents' marriage?

 

[buckthorn]

Interesting. How about your parents?
@WhitePolarBear parents marriage is hanging by a thread.
@Exodus2011 parents divorced.
I think @EvilLocks parents are ok-ish
@Afro_Vacancy parents seperated I think
My parents marriage was not a happy one. Emotional abuse on part of my father. No love involved.

Any other members want to chime in about their parents' marriage?

My parents despise each other and plot against each other for me and my siblings attention.

 

[buckthorn]

Thanks because that's like actual examples instead of someone vaguely going "all couples just hate each other!!!!11"

It might be just your group, because to me that's crazy, and of course are terrible examples for you to move forward with (especially as your parents didn't help).

If I was to put a guess on the number of miserable couples I know, there's definitely a significant amount, like up to maybe a quarter? Who constantly seem frustrated with each other. Nowhere near as dramatic as your experience but still, if it's like 20% of people, that's a huge risk if you're cynical about long-term relationships.

Well I understand while you feel this way, but I'd try and remain open-minded to some extent. Like I say, if someone can live happily alone and never need a long-term relationship, then I can't argue with that, the thing is, as explained, I just find that like 99% of people can't live happily like that. If you're one of the rare few then good luck with that.

thanks man. Nice post. Of course the prospect of true love is a great one. I've felt it once, maybe twice. It was just this girl that was perfect for me, when I was 21. I didn't know at the time and didn't treat her too well. Like we could just hang out all day and night and go hiking, play basketball, play video games, anything.. absolutely anything and we would have fun together.

We even lived togather and rarely argued.

She was VERY easy going and I think THAT is a huge key in a happy marriage. Someone that is just simple. Happy doing anything with you, just as long as you're there. Need for drama, or constant attention and unwillingness to be flexible desrtoy marriages.

 

[Rudiger]

Interesting. How about your parents?
@WhitePolarBear parents marriage is hanging by a thread.
@Exodus2011 parents divorced.
I think @EvilLocks parents are ok-ish
@Afro_Vacancy parents seperated I think
My parents marriage was not a happy one. Emotional abuse on part of my father. No love involved.

Any other members want to chime in about their parents' marriage?

I actually think I made great waves in improving my parents marriage, some years ago. They were going through a real crisis, I moved out at first when I was 17 and then moved country at 18, so it's not like I was home in the same way as a kid, but every time I was home, was major arguing, slamming doors, completely intentional mis-interpretations and exaggerations of each others behaviour. I lost it one night and pointed out how they were both being totally psychopathic, while they weren't using me as ammo (like in bucky's situation) I really dug deep at a lot of uncomfortable truths at the way they were both behaving. Similar to what I try to do on this forum (or I do? not to sound like a cocky c***) but I brought up a lot of stuff that made them think about how they were behaving, and to really dig deep and reflect on what they were trying to achieve as people.

I'll never truly know what impact that had but all I know is, the fighting stopped, it's pretty rare now, of course I'm not there all of the time, but at least 2 days a week I'll be around the house, but that's the same as when the fighting was out of control and it was literally every time I visited. I'd stop in their kitchen/living room area for an hour chatting, they'd be all smiles and lovely, I'd go down to the other living room or my bedroom, within 2 minutes screaming and crashing (nobody every turned violent though, as far as I know).

So I think it's similar to "parents are ok-ish" but maybe a little better than that, they genuinely don't seem to have that resentment they once did, and chat happily to each other in a content way, as older couples should with someone who understands them. I just wonder if my breakdown with them one night had turned a potentially volatile couple into a better one, and while of course I'd be happy that this happened (not that I really care about taking credit for it, because it's just too damn important to really care about such a thing) it's also like, well, they so easily could have been miserable together or even broke apart. It took a rare intervention from someone to stop the inevitable, which isn't encouraging for myself when it comes to hoping for a happy future with someone.

It's like, it could easily go wrong, and we won't get that lucky intervention.

 

[Rudiger]

She was VERY easy going and I think THAT is a huge key in a happy marriage. Someone that is just simple. Happy doing anything with you, just as long as you're there. Need for drama, or constant attention and unwillingness to be flexible desrtoy marriages.

That's a key but so much easier said than done!

I think there's key differences to the male and female brain, and the major fault in the female brain is that now there is equality (or "supposed" equality in their eyes) they don't know how to act or feel. This manifests itself in a frustration at not being oppressed, or challenged, so when things are going smoothly and easily, in life, in a relationship, they want to upset that to feel something. If someone's not mad or disturbed, then life is dull, whereas in comparison, a man just wants peace and an easy life. That's not good enough for a woman, she needs the ups and downs, the trouble.

This is generalising of course but from a guy who's been with many women and enough long-ish term relationships you notice these traits. It's happened very rarely, but I've sometimes broken a woman down to admitting she's just fighting for the sake of it, and it takes a lot of resolve and persistence to get that admission, but they do this, not because they're mad, or because a point has to be proven or some progression has to be made on your part, just simply because she's not in a good mood and has to release some steam.

The more you let them do it, the more they will do it. I think this is natural in a lot of females minds.

 

[JohnsonDDG]

We didn't decide to become monogamous, it's deeply biologically ingrained in us, and it evolved as a result of us realizing that we need to live with each other, that we need to be able to trade with them, to trust them and it goes both ways. Remove monogamy and all hell will break lose, this is already happening in the West to some extent.

We didn't invent marriage and that should obvious from the cross-cultural studies, marriage is pretty much a human universal and the societies who have decided not to implement the idea of marriage didn't last long.

Yes, we get jealous and we need to shackle ourselves to each other, it's also in our nature, we've figured that out, transgress those moral principles and watch your relationship burn to the ground sooner or later.

You can't feel positive emotions or happiness without trying to attain a higher goal. The higher the goal, the more positive emotions. So no, I'm afraid that happiness is almost impossible without the goal of finding a long-term partner and having children, unless you're incredibly gifted in some area and you can find a goal that would justify your sacrifice of the idea of having a family.

I knew you'd write something quite impressive about this.

It comes across as a epic war cry for love and commitment and I do like to read it.

I was on the fence with this one because there's one part of me that still believes love and commitment is possible and then theres the other side that says its doomed and that most marriages fail.

Coming from a broken family wasn't the best example for me.

Another element that we overlook is that we delude ourselves with cope - I kept telling myself all relationships fail because it gave me a reason to not try and start a relationship: and by not trying to find a relationship and I didn't have to confront reasons why my relationships fail (fear of commitment, avoiding kids, sexually promiscuous).

One of the most pertinent and yet most simple thing I can say is this: I was a lot happier when in a relationship compared to when I was single (take that how you will).

 

[blackg]

Sad but true unfortunately.Women will always select the best looking higher status man to have offspring with..

At my place of employment there is a lot of low status society men and high status better looking gentlemen.

All the high status blokes are married divorced and married again having kids with both wives some of them. All the lower ones aren’t married no children.Some have to resort to a mail order bride just to have a child because western women won’t even give them a chance.

I believe western women are becoming more and more picky when choosing a partner then ever before mainly due to social media,tv and competition from other women to have it all bragging rights if you like..

So us blokes have to improve our status and improve our looks or we won’t stand a chance. Good luck gentlemen!

Why shouldn't women be allowed to exercise free will and choose who they want to procreate with?
What's the alternative? Arranged marriages?

Just because things are changing in terms of gender privilege doesn't automatically make it wrong.
The sky is not falling in.

 

[blackg]

I think looks matter most,

This is true. Looks dictate our sexual market value and this value has a large bearing on our character.

 

[Trichosan]

This is true. Looks dictate our sexual market value and this value has a large bearing on our character.

No question about looks and sexual market value. But do you mean about how it affects our character and what is the importance of that character?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I believe that it's not possible for a normal person to be alone in the long term and happy.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Interesting. How about your parents?
@WhitePolarBear parents marriage is hanging by a thread.
@Exodus2011 parents divorced.
I think @EvilLocks parents are ok-ish
@Afro_Vacancy parents seperated I think
My parents marriage was not a happy one. Emotional abuse on part of my father. No love involved.

Any other members want to chime in about their parents' marriage?

My parents were married from 1975 until 2012 when my dad died. They were legally together but not actually together, as my brother in law pointed out to me, they never did any activities together such as shopping, going on a walk, etc. Throughout my childhood my mother spent hours of the day screaming, often nagging my dad for not making enough money. Meanwhile she made none and was wasteful with what she did have, and just a general psychological drag.

It's not a role model marriage by any means. I guess that they had two kids so that's something.

 

[RegenWaiting]

@RegenWaiting You've made your entrance into this section in the appropriate manner with a thread I always like reading your posts and the way you write, that's all from me!

Thank you man. That's a very nice thing to write! I feel the same way about your posts.