More Childless Men: Women Do Not Want Children With Low-status Men

[Exodus2011]

My parents were married from 1975 until 2012 when my dad died. They were legally together but not actually together, as my brother in law pointed out to me, they never did any activities together such as shopping, going on a walk, etc. Throughout my childhood my mother spent hours of the day screaming, often nagging my dad for not making enough money. Meanwhile she made none and was wasteful with what she did have, and just a general psychological drag.

It's not a role model marriage by any means. I guess that they had two kids so that's something.

How was your relationship with your dad?

Your mom is my mom on steroids, i feel ya, well assuming she is infuriatingly overprotective like mine lol

 

[CaptainForehead]

Throughout my childhood my mother spent hours of the day screaming, often nagging my dad for not making enough money. Meanwhile she made none and was wasteful with what she did have, and just a general psychological drag.

That sounds like hell for your dad. I'm surprised he didn't leave.

 

[Exodus2011]

That sounds like hell for your dad. I'm surprised he didn't leave.

He mightve been ugly

 

[RegenWaiting]

So many good posts here on the subject and also bi-subjects that often follow.
I believe the discussion is very healthy and that posters on both ''sides'' argue well, still
I'd like to add something too...

Very often when societal/demographic issues are discussed some constants are introduced in the early
stages of the discussion, so that later on it seems like an unquestionable truth. It might not be.

While some would say monogamy isn't natural and at the same time feel progressive about the ideological
and philosophical aspect of the subject, they may not notice the evolutional step back they actually are advocating.
Our consciousness is excatly what separates us from the animals, it was that what made us invent the concept
of marriage because that's what's needed to make us move forward. The concept of marriage prevents the introduction of
chaos and anarchy on so many levels - human biology being one of them. One should be very careful of inviting
relativity where it's not needed, because then; where does it stop? How long before brothers and sisters are mating?

One other ''blatant'' truth often being made a constant is that just because something is right now, it always was.
What do I mean by this?
If a marriage is disfunctional, even if 80% (the number not important, concept is) of all marriages are wrong, then
why do so many believe that the whole concept of it is wrong? What if something else went wrong in the meantime?
To be even more clear: How do we know what induced the infection? What came first - the chicken or the egg?


Based on the findings in the article, it seems marriage in itself isn't the problem. Western societies have deeper going
issues in need of addressing. How can marriage and partnership be wring when the exact opposite is proven
to be a health risk (see article)? Single man and women are both more likely to be a welfare burden on society too, it says.

Way too many people disregard marriage on the basis of corrupt feminism, capitalistic atmosphere and social trends.
Still, some people are and would always have been better of never marrying nor having offspring. But that's not the
discussion here I feel...

Not intended as a blueprint to be followed, just my thought...

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

He mightve been ugly

No.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

That sounds like hell for your dad. I'm surprised he didn't leave.

It was not feasible.

Divorce is expensive.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

How was your relationship with your dad?

Your mom is my mom on steroids, i feel ya, well assuming she is infuriatingly overprotective like mine lol

Distant. I only really got close to him when he was on his deathbed.

My mother did a terrific job of "gatekeeping".

 

[Saurabhaj]

i try to avoid posting any chan-related material on other discussion boards but i think this screencap is relevant and worth a read. take it as you will.

E: Apparently the quality goes to sh*t when you attach an image. its still readable but a bit of an eyestrain, apologies.

View attachment 68870


E2: Maybe this is a more readable version?

View attachment 68878

 

[buckthorn]

You can't be alone and be OK, because who's going to call you out on your BS and various biases on a regular basis then? Yourself? I doubt it.

We call people who remain single (by choice or not) losers because they can't seem to be able to play the game that is a relationship.

Sure, it's a hard game, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't try to play it. And it's one of the main human game that's been played through the ages.

Someone who refuses to play that game will be seen as selfish and possibly dangerous, because they never have to correct their own behavior.

Living on your own is f*****g easy, you move in, and from day 1, you've already won. I wouldn't brag about being able to live on your own.



It's because there is something wrong with you, and there's a myriad of things that are wrong about you, and until you get into a relationship, you will never know about them. And you will continue to foster that destructive mindset.

Read my previous post, if you're in a sexless and toxic relationship / marriage, I'm sorry but that's partly your own fault. It's your responsibility to keep your eyes open at all times and to address the problems that need fixing.



This is wrong on many levels.

What you're saying is one tiny part of the truth, which makes it propaganda. You're leaving out important variables so that you can carve out your pessimistic narrative.

We didn't decide to become monogamous, it's deeply biologically ingrained in us, and it evolved as a result of us realizing that we need to live with each other, that we need to be able to trade with them, to trust them and it goes both ways. Remove monogamy and all hell will break lose, this is already happening in the West to some extent.

We didn't invent marriage and that should be obvious from the cross-cultural studies, marriage is pretty much a human universal and the societies who have decided not to implement the idea of marriage didn't last long.

Yes, we get jealous and we need to shackle ourselves to each other, it's also in our nature, we've figured that out, transgress those moral principles and watch your relationship burn to the ground sooner or later.

You can't feel positive emotions or happiness without trying to attain a higher goal. The higher the goal, the more positive emotions. So no, I'm afraid that happiness is almost impossible without the goal of finding a long-term partner and having children, unless you're incredibly gifted in some area and you can find a goal that would justify your sacrifice of the idea of having a family.

no, this is wrong, on so many levels. you are the one saying this to a biologist with a masters degree in molecular biology. It is NOT in our nature. Where the hell are you getting your info man? "Happiness is almost impossible without the goal of a long term partner and children"... Wrong. So wrong. Your evolutionary instincts make it impossible to go long term without sticking your dick in someone. That's it.

 

[buckthorn]

You can't be alone and be OK, because who's going to call you out on your BS and various biases on a regular basis then? Yourself? I doubt it.

We call people who remain single (by choice or not) losers because they can't seem to be able to play the game that is a relationship.

Sure, it's a hard game, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't try to play it. And it's one of the main human game that's been played through the ages.

Someone who refuses to play that game will be seen as selfish and possibly dangerous, because they never have to correct their own behavior.

Living on your own is f*****g easy, you move in, and from day 1, you've already won. I wouldn't brag about being able to live on your own.



It's because there is something wrong with you, and there's a myriad of things that are wrong about you, and until you get into a relationship, you will never know about them. And you will continue to foster that destructive mindset.

Read my previous post, if you're in a sexless and toxic relationship / marriage, I'm sorry but that's partly your own fault. It's your responsibility to keep your eyes open at all times and to address the problems that need fixing.



This is wrong on many levels.

What you're saying is one tiny part of the truth, which makes it propaganda. You're leaving out important variables so that you can carve out your pessimistic narrative.

We didn't decide to become monogamous, it's deeply biologically ingrained in us, and it evolved as a result of us realizing that we need to live with each other, that we need to be able to trade with them, to trust them and it goes both ways. Remove monogamy and all hell will break lose, this is already happening in the West to some extent.

We didn't invent marriage and that should be obvious from the cross-cultural studies, marriage is pretty much a human universal and the societies who have decided not to implement the idea of marriage didn't last long.

Yes, we get jealous and we need to shackle ourselves to each other, it's also in our nature, we've figured that out, transgress those moral principles and watch your relationship burn to the ground sooner or later.

You can't feel positive emotions or happiness without trying to attain a higher goal. The higher the goal, the more positive emotions. So no, I'm afraid that happiness is almost impossible without the goal of finding a long-term partner and having children, unless you're incredibly gifted in some area and you can find a goal that would justify your sacrifice of the idea of having a family.

scoiety has burned it's principles into your mind. So much so that you almost sound like a puppet, or an ad in a magazine. If you can't be TRULY happy on your own, than what have I accomplished this past year. No relationship at all, not even a hand hold let alone sex. I have traveled extensively, changed bad habits, experienced things that are just epic, things that some won't even believe. I have learned new instruments. I have worked my job more efficiently than ever. But wait... no, i didn't have sex. I didn't "forge a bond of love". You're full of sh*t man and you know it. Your need for marriage is a weakness. but, you know I love you none the less. xoxox

 

[buckthorn]

but f*** it. I don't even really agree with half of what I am saying. I DO miss the feeling of a cute girl jumping on me and kissing my cheek when she sees me. Being in love is the most beautiful feeling ever... but some are simply not destined for it, period. I am one. whatever. f*** all of you. I'll be in my room eating hot pockets and playing COD!!!

 

[Patrick_Bateman]

but f*** it. I don't even really agree with half of what I am saying. I DO miss the feeling of a cute girl jumping on me and kissing my cheek when she sees me. Being in love is the most beautiful feeling ever... but some are simply not destined for it, period. I am one. whatever. f*** all of you. I'll be in my room eating hot pockets and playing COD!!!

It’s ironic that you are trying to convey a message that you are completely happy by yourself, but it reads like you are utterly miserable.

 

[buckthorn]

I will say this though @WhitePolarBear - and I will be completely honest. After 15 years of steady relationships and sex with beautiful, kind women, I don't miss the relationship part. Maybe that's just me. IDK man. What i do miss is the initial feeling, the long foreplay and the ejaculation.

 

[buckthorn]

It’s ironic that you are trying to convey a message that you are completely happy by yourself, but it reads like you are utterly miserable.

f*** you therapist! haha...I am not "happy". f*** "true happiness". You and I both know it's a bullshit illusion. Yeah, you're truly happy until what? you lose your hair? your wife leaves you? you become disfigured? well then, that was not true happiness to begin with. Something that is true and pure is not fleeting.

 

[Patrick_Bateman]

f*** you therapist! haha...I am not "happy". f*** "true happiness". You and I both know it's a bullshit illusion. Yeah, you're truly happy until what? you lose your hair? your wife leaves you? you become disfigured? well then, that was not true happiness to begin with. Something that is true and pure is not fleeting.

It was true happiness at the time.

 

[buckthorn]

It was true happiness at the time.

I get what you're saying, but not really, at least in my mind. The only true happiness that exists is within one's self. If it's not maintainable then it's not true, it's f*****g garbage.

 

[barfacan]

Peterson seems to be flavor of the month right now. Not a bad model, but not airtight either.

 

[GornMyson]

Show me one person in the world who is "airtight".

Could show you a load of women that have been airtight.

 

[buckthorn]

I did everything you did while having an intimate relationship.

I still don't see how they are mutually exclusive.

This year only, I traveled roughly two months in total (I couldn't take more days off work actually), to Costa Rica, the US and Eastern Europe.

I also joined a rock band and performed several times on stage for the first time in my life.

I'm also very fortunate to have the job I have and I also got promoted recently.

All this while while having regular sex and strengthening a bond love ( ) with my girlfriend.

And the rest of the time, I go to the gym (gained 6 kg of muscle this year), I watch entertainment and I play video games.

My need for marriage is strength as it's very difficult to sacrifice a lot to be with only one person for the rest of your life.

But I'm ready to make that sacrifice, because I have faith that my life with her will be infinitely better than any alternative, like remaining single, sleeping around or desperately trying to find the perfect girl that most likely does not exist.

I know you're resentful because you think that society, women, the whole world is corrupt and you're a poor victim of circumstances. I'm sorry but I don't buy that nonsense anymore.

Society does not exist, there are only individuals who make their own choices and collectively came up with the principles that you seem to hold in contempt. I don't see how I'm a puppet just because I'm trying to get good at playing the game of life.

I'm not trying to sell you something here, I'm just telling you what I believe and what I'm doing, now if you think my life is hell, why not? I'm currently the happiest I've ever been, and that's partly because I have a long-term goal in mind, which is building a family.

Remove that and there is no happiness, everything will lose its flavor and seem pointless. You can't just float around in life and be happy, I think you're kidding yourself and that's why you have regular angry outbursts.



Show me one person in the world who is "airtight".

nice man, I am legit happy for you. Maybe I will change my mind some day. The prospect of love is a glorious one, just something I fail to believe in.

 

[whatintheworld]

Everyone wants the best that they can get, this is a no brainer.

The question becomes are you maximizing your life to give yourself a chance?

Life's not fair, but playing the victim card is useless. Taking action to improve yourself is what will make the difference.