More Dads Are Getting Plastic Surgery (and Hate For It)

That Guy

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This is one of those strawmen situations I was talking about in a topic recently, when men or women are treated a certain way so guys on here exaggerate that if the gender roles were reversed it would be the exact opposite. It's total bullshit (not necessarily the OP but the replies so far).

Yeah because women with surgery are praised and lauded in the streets! They come out of the surgeon to a parade of people cheering and throwing confetti from the balconies!

Women are definitely shamed over surgery. The only socially acceptable exceptions being Botox, but it's still hardly embraced, and boob jobs, which gets a neutral reaction which is case by case.

Anything else is shamed, women love bitching about how Megan Fox, Kate Beckinsale and Jennifer Aniston have had "touches up" (phrase used somewhat sarcastically for major surgeries) on their nose, jaw, etc. and aren't natural beauties. "She's so beautiful! Thank her surgeon".

Women who do come out and admit their surgeries are only praised if fairly unattractive, like Sharon Osbourne or Joan Rivers (in old age). In these cases their honesty is somewhat celebrated, but if it's an attractive celebrity or even a normal girl down the street, women always need to ensure it wasn't genetics that got her looking this way.

Now, as shamed as men are? Men do get it worse for being "pathetically vain", but plastic surgery is not applauded for either gender.

Yeah, but they are certainly better received than men are.

Here's plastic surgery on a woman gone right:

From this

88450.jpg


To this:

660full-eiza-gonzalez.jpg


Facial contouring, rhinoplasty and probably some other, more minor things have been done and in recent years, she's in every guy's spank bank.

Men are hit with homosexual accusations and slurs for just getting botox, most women just get accused of being "plastic" by jealous b****s. That's the difference: for women it's about jealousy, if it goes well; for men, there's something "wrong" with them.

I will say this though:

It's always pissed me off how people will try to talk women out of getting boob job or something because "you're beautiful and perfect the way you are!" but if you tried to talk someone out of sex-change operations, it will be a category 5 shitstorm.
 

Rudiger

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Men are hit with homosexual accusations and slurs for just getting botox, most women just get accused of being "plastic" by jealous b****s. That's the difference: for women it's about jealousy, if it goes well; for men, there's something "wrong" with them.

Yeah that's an important distinction as well. No doubt culturally things are still stacked against males.

I just think by overblowing this apparent adulation females get for every single thing they do, this point gets muddied and disregarded as ridiculous. It's why extreme movements like MGTOW, which at its core has some irrefutable truths, but it all gets tossed aside as extremist bullshit.
 

That Guy

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Yeah that's an important distinction as well. No doubt culturally things are still stacked against males.

I just think by overblowing this apparent adulation females get for every single thing they do, this point gets muddied and disregarded as ridiculous. It's why extreme movements like MGTOW, which at its core has some irrefutable truths, but it all gets tossed aside as extremist bullshit.

I agree

Regarding MGTOW, I would categorize its "hypergamy" message it totes as gospel as being "extremist bullshit", I'm afraid. In fairness, this is the only thing I've ever heard from them and it's just frat bros placing blame on women and their supposed "nature" for being rejected or dumped instead of just accepting that she finds you repulsive and maybe you're just a douche.

It's not like there aren't gold-diggin' wh*** out there, but you can spot them from a mile away.

The real problem they have, like so many "movements", is confirmation bias.
 

rclark

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More men dye their hair today, and more men spend money treating their hair for androgen alopecia, then
say in the 1980s.

So, it's probably true, that all in all, men spend more money then women, who start losing their hair
much later in life than men do (after menopause, usually, there are some exceptions of course).
 

Afro_Vacancy

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Yeah, but they are certainly better received than men are.

Here's plastic surgery on a woman gone right:

From this

View attachment 55365

To this:

View attachment 55366

Facial contouring, rhinoplasty and probably some other, more minor things have been done and in recent years, she's in every guy's spank bank.

Men are hit with homosexual accusations and slurs for just getting botox, most women just get accused of being "plastic" by jealous b****s. That's the difference: for women it's about jealousy, if it goes well; for men, there's something "wrong" with them.

I will say this though:

It's always pissed me off how people will try to talk women out of getting boob job or something because "you're beautiful and perfect the way you are!" but if you tried to talk someone out of sex-change operations, it will be a category 5 shitstorm.

Who is that?

By the way transgender operations are a totally different thing and thus it's a poor analogy. A cosmetic surgery is meant to get better treatment from society, whereas a transgender operation is meant to get different treatment from society and to recognize oneself in the mirror.

Further, the social repercussions are different. Women getting botox or men getting hair transplants affects the general market as beauty is a zero-sum game. If you have 10% of people becoming prettier, then the other 90% of people necessarily become uglier, and thus there is inevitable pressure on them as well to get into the game. In contrast there can be no such pressure propagation from intersex surgeries. The total number of trans and intersex individuals is no more than a generous one in a hundred regardless of how you count, and thus it will not affect the rest of society.

The analogy does not hold.
 

Rudiger

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I agree

Regarding MGTOW, I would categorize its "hypergamy" message it totes as gospel as being "extremist bullshit", I'm afraid. In fairness, this is the only thing I've ever heard from them and it's just frat bros placing blame on women and their supposed "nature" for being rejected or dumped instead of just accepting that she finds you repulsive and maybe you're just a douche.

It's not like there aren't gold-diggin' wh*** out there, but you can spot them from a mile away.

The real problem they have, like so many "movements", is confirmation bias.

Well now I've brought up the MGTOW thing when I'm not hugely versed in their beliefs, but iirc their base is about men's rights (divorce settlements, custody etc) positive discrimination etc. These things are indeed important but I find the break off groups from MGTOW, or less "official" stances are based more on theories than facts, and this is more attractive to the ranting frustrated average incel than actual issues.

I've always been open to the idea of hypergamy and the coper inside me wants to believe it's bullshit, I simply don't know as I don't think it's a solid enough argument to even begin to investigate. It's all purely anecdotal really, and I like the fact you think it's just extreme sh*t.

Confirmation bias is a huge problem with them and reflectively a huge problem with this forum. There's that much red pill "literature" out there that you can apply any situation you want to fit into your narrow dark box.
 
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Dirty_Harry

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Oops, I misread, sorry.

And you know why? We accuse women that they're sneaky, jealous and show no solidarity towards them. The truth is, they're just jealous on small matters. On the other hand, men are treacherous on serious matters, the bro code is just for everyday bullshit. And that's the case with baldness, everyone is bothered by it but at the same time they don't give a flying f**k for others...
 

Min0

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This is not Star Trek or a sci-fi movie. It's a male-dominated society. Way.

  • men pay most of the taxes
  • most homeless people are men
  • men get divorce-raped in courts
  • men commit the most suicides
 

Dante92

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  • men pay most of the taxes
  • most homeless people are men
  • men get divorce-raped in courts
  • men commit the most suicides

"Being male in 2017 sucks" scientific evidence n° 29437378328574353859362828462
 

That Guy

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Who is that?

By the way transgender operations are a totally different thing and thus it's a poor analogy. A cosmetic surgery is meant to get better treatment from society, whereas a transgender operation is meant to get different treatment from society and to recognize oneself in the mirror.

Further, the social repercussions are different. Women getting botox or men getting hair transplants affects the general market as beauty is a zero-sum game. If you have 10% of people becoming prettier, then the other 90% of people necessarily become uglier, and thus there is inevitable pressure on them as well to get into the game. In contrast there can be no such pressure propagation from intersex surgeries. The total number of trans and intersex individuals is no more than a generous one in a hundred regardless of how you count, and thus it will not affect the rest of society.

The analogy does not hold.

I don't necessarily think these are as different as you suggest. Anyone I think I've known personally who gets cosmetic surgery done has done so because they want to like what they see in the mirror.

Women I know with fake boobs typically got them because they wanted bigger tits in the same way that I use hairloss treatments and would undergo a surgery that could make me an eternal NW1 because I like having hair; a favourable reaction from society is certainly a bonus and in the age of social media, an incentive for many, I'm sure — but I don't think the motivations between the two procedures are inherently worlds apart.

Anyway, that insanely hot girl is a Mexican actress named "Eiza Gonzalez". She plays Santanico Pandemonium in the Netflix version of "From Dusk Til Dawn" and is "Darling" in the upcoming "Baby Driver", which I am so f*****g amped for.

Well now I've brought up the MGTOW thing when I'm not hugely versed in their beliefs, but iirc their base is about men's rights (divorce settlements, custody etc) positive discrimination etc. These things are indeed important but I find the break off groups from MGTOW, or less "official" stances are based more on theories than facts, and this is more attractive to the ranting frustrated average incel than actual issues.

I've always been open to the idea of hypergamy and the coper inside me wants to believe it's bullshit, I simply don't know as I don't think it's a solid enough argument to even begin to investigate. It's all purely anecdotal really, and I like the fact you think it's just extreme sh*t.

Confirmation bias is a huge problem with them and reflectively a huge problem with this forum. There's that much red pill "literature" out there that you can apply any situation you want to fit into your narrow dark box.

The problem I have with their "hypergamy" argument is that it takes primitive animal behavior (Brifault's law) and uses it to reduce the far more complex social interactions of humans.

This is best demonstrated in their videos about "Hypergamy" and "Branch Swinging/sh*t Testing"

In the opening of the former video, the guy acknowledges the problems with its application to humans and even says "There are many instances where women have proven the first corollary of Brifault's law false"...yeah, it's almost like it's bullshit. In the latter video, the guy conveniently leaves out "looks" as something that men can offer as attractive to females and doesn't see the error in exclusively dating women from apps or bars and it's not like he's asking out the cute bartender girl; he's going for the ones trying to call as much attention to themselves as possible and is surprised when it turns out she's a gold digger.

Lastly, in one of their articles, they use tweets from women about how they want to ride Chris Brown and some other celebrity despite their criminal and abusive pasts. "Because hypergamy bro!" they literally reduce it to "women want these men because they're rich and famous" not because these male celebrities are jacked, fullheads and conventionally attractive men by modern standards — nope, it must be money.

Like, Eiza Gonzalez up there might be a real b**ch who beats on her boyfriends for all I know — but do you think that would stop men from salivating over her?

For guys claiming to be disciples of the red pill, they're blue-pilled as f***. All it does is fill the heads of fat, balding frat fucks with the idea that if they just get enough money and status and maybe lift some weights, that is all they need for the hottest women on Earth to love them and if she rejects or dumps you, it's only because your bank account slipped.

None of these guys are thinking "Hypergamy" when a woman actually agrees to date them.
 

Afro_Vacancy

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I don't necessarily think these are as different as you suggest. Anyone I think I've known personally who gets cosmetic surgery done has done so because they want to like what they see in the mirror.

Women I know with fake boobs typically got them because they wanted bigger tits in the same way that I use hairloss treatments and would undergo a surgery that could make me an eternal NW1 because I like having hair; a favourable reaction from society is certainly a bonus and in the age of social media, an incentive for many, I'm sure — but I don't think the motivations between the two procedures are inherently worlds apart.

Anyway, that insanely hot girl is a Mexican actress named "Eiza Gonzalez". She plays Santanico Pandemonium in the Netflix version of "From Dusk Til Dawn" and is "Darling" in the upcoming "Baby Driver", which I am so f*****g amped for.

All I know about Baby Driver is that it's from the respected Edgar Wright, so I'll try and make seeing it a priority.

I've heard a lot of people say that they get plastic surgery because they're doing it for themselves. I concur with your experience. But to be honest I'm not sure if they're just coping, and if they're not really doing it for opposite-sex attraction and social status.
 

Rudiger

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That whole post was great but this in particular is my sentiments exactly:

For guys claiming to be disciples of the red pill, they're blue-pilled as f***. All it does is fill the heads of fat, balding frat fucks with the idea that if they just get enough money and status and maybe lift some weights, that is all they need for the hottest women on Earth to love them and if she rejects or dumps you, it's only because your bank account slipped.

None of these guys are thinking "Hypergamy" when a woman actually agrees to date them.

It brought a tear to my eye.

The concept as well that some guys are so red pilled they go full circle into being blue pilled, hilarious.
 

Min0

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oh boy, MGTOW strawmanning is strong in the posts above.
here watch this, and if you're shrewd enough you'll get it.



DO NOT GET MARRIED !
 
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Rudiger

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oh boy, MGTOW strawmanning is strong in the posts above.
here watch this, and if you're shrewd enough you'll get it.



DO NOT GET MARRIED !

Yeah I think I'll spend the next 2 hours watching this from a source that can't spend 2 minutes expressing a sentient point.
 

That Guy

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oh boy, MGTOW strawmanning is strong in the posts above.
here watch this, and if you're shrewd enough you'll get it.



DO NOT GET MARRIED !

There is no "strawmanning" because what I refer to are points they make and I refute. Points that are the crux of their entire philosophy.

Also, the "problems" of getting married are a result of flaws and some outright favourtism from the legal system and not because women are all gold-digging w****s like MGTOW wants you to believe.

The shoe is simply on the other foot now, because marriages used to be arranged, where women were married off to whatever man was most likely to boost the girl's family's status and wealth; with absolutely no regard for the woman's wishes. With the stipulations of marriage today, the woman is getting the better deal this time around.

Now, marriage and the ability to exit it are simply a choice for the woman.

Of course, MGTOW wouldn't be complaining if it was still the way it was back in the feudal era
 

Rudiger

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I'll point out that I didn't make any huge allegations of what's wrong with movements such as MGTOW, I never was interested to delve into it enough. So I don't know if I'm the one strawmanning here but I didn't even make any specific cases to do so.

If anything I'm always open to new ideas but when I did delve into red pill theory I found that nothing was truly grounded in reality, and a small interrogation of the facts always lead to contradiction.

Much like conspiracy theorists the rebuttal is "stop being a sheep and watch this 30minute video that I ironically identify myself with religiously".
 

Min0

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There is no "strawmanning" because what I refer to are points they make and I refute. Points that are the crux of their entire philosophy.
this is the starwmanning, hypergamy is not the crux of their philosophy.
MGTOW arguments are from biology and the study of the human animal.

isn't there a possibility on earth where the males of a species have it harder then their female counterparts ?
take for example male redback spiders, they get eaten by the female.
and in some other species the males have it better like bees, drones live their life chilling all day and f*****g the Queen !

it's like this, biology imposes shitty lives on some males in nature, and the civilised human animal is definitely having it hard.
he can't have it easy with the female monetizing sex for food.
if you're with a female who doesn't ask you to marry her and splits all the bills with you then good for you.
if you're with the typical professional woman who monetizes every interaction with you, and require you to sign a contract so you will technically be her slave, then i say you just got your sh*t fucked up fam.

Also, the "problems" of getting married are a result of flaws and some outright favourtism from the legal system and not because women are all gold-digging w****s like MGTOW wants you to believe.
nope, we have data on traditional rural women divorcing with western women rates as soon as other financial opportunities are available. so the thing is, rice is what's holding the nuclear family not love, women don't love men.
it's not just the legal aspect of marriage that sucks,the whole thing is still transactional even in traditional non western societies.

The shoe is simply on the other foot now, because marriages used to be arranged, where women were married off to whatever man was most likely to boost the girl's family's status and wealth; with absolutely no regard for the woman's wishes. With the stipulations of marriage today, the woman is getting the better deal this time around.
whatever, the woman is still a market commodity. wether her family or herself knows it is irrelevant.
her value peak at 25 then it's downhill from there.

Now, marriage and the ability to exit it are simply a choice for the woman.
and i'm happy for them, at least they don't have to pretend to love a man just to eat rice and survive.

Of course, MGTOW wouldn't be complaining if it was still the way it was back in the feudal era
you're wrong and uninformed about MGTOW, see the traditional video above, MGTOW are really happy for women who don't have
to pretend to love some clueless beta provider just for ressources. that's why i respect some feminists more than contract w****s, traditional leeches !
 
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Min0

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Yeah I think I'll spend the next 2 hours watching this from a source that can't spend 2 minutes expressing a sentient point.
you better man, the stakes are very high, 2 hours is nothing.
 
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