More Dads Are Getting Plastic Surgery (and Hate For It)

[Afro_Vacancy]

It's also a self-preservation case. If the guy down the street with lung cancer is being cared for by the state (which yes, means a cent or two from your bank account), there's far less of a chance that you'll end up getting knifed by him for your wallet at 3am.

Yes there are many supporting arguments one can make for this.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I know someone very well, a very successful and rich person who works in the NY financial world. From the time he was a kid, he was always just very good with money. He saved it, didnt buy anything, monitored his bank account. He's also the sweetest person you'd ever meet. Great father, not racist, unkind, any of it. He's honest and his clients trust him, he's conservative with his clients' money and invests it wisely, and this is the secret of his success. The Bear wrote that people get rich due only to luck and being handed $, this is absolutely untrue in this case and in the cases of many, many, many other people I know who did not grow up rich or get any special favors, but went to law school, medical school, business school, on loans, and worked hard for their success. No luck, and certainly no sociopathic behavior, involved...

Skill, effort, and luck are all important. I can't see anybody rationally denying any of them, I think Bear is just engaging in hyperbole.

Mark Zuckerberg for example had a lot of skill, the skill needed to make facebook. He had the foresight to focus on the right thing, he knew how to code, he knew to drop out of college. But he also had luck. Facebook is something that could only be made in the early 2000s, and it wouldn't have succeeded if he had started it at Oberlin or Michigan State.

 

[Dench57]

Smokers also cost the country less btw. They pay a shitload in tax buying tobacco and die 10 years earlier than non-smokers. Caring for old people who lived healthy lives is more expensive than treating smokers.

 

[hairblues]

Success in sales or any field where you need to be aggressive and to be able take a lot of rejections is largely determined by your looks and your degree of psychopathy..

I dont know a lot of really hot successful people in finance world.
I mean i see hot 'pharma' girls but not hot wall street guys.

 

[hairblues]

Nothing as sad as people who use 'luck' as an excuse in life.
Unless you are born with a deformity, handicap, drug addict parents I am like 'meh' about luck.

 

[Dench57]

Also, why has Impact moved into the New Research section like a bunch of unwelcome and rowdy squatters?

 

[Dante92]

Also, why has Impact moved into the New Research section like a bunch of unwelcome and rowdy squatters?

To hide the depressing threads and users away from sight of future users/investors.

Nobody cares about our pain.

 

[hairblues]

Also, why has Impact moved into the New Research section like a bunch of unwelcome and rowdy squatters?

We are spreading our destructive poison to the still hopeful. (Did you see the broztu thread? LOL)

 

[Dante92]

We are spreading our destructive poison to the still hopeful. (Did you see the broztu thread? LOL)

That's not poison, that's our pain, and it's too real. Too real for moderators' taste it seems.

 

[yetti]

Nothing as sad as people who use 'luck' as an excuse in life.
Unless you are born with a deformity, handicap, drug addict parents I am like 'meh' about luck.

Again, I find myself agreeing and was about to type the same thing. Afro wrote:

>Skill, effort, and luck are all important. I can't see anybody rationally denying any of them, I think Bear is just engaging in hyperbole.
>Mark Zuckerberg for example had a lot of skill, the skill needed to make facebook. He had the foresight to focus on the right thing, he knew how >to code, he knew to drop out of college. But he also had luck. Facebook is something that could only be made in the early 2000s, and it wouldn't >have succeeded if he had started it at Oberlin or Michigan State.

Zuckerberg level of course there's some luck involved (tho a hell of a lot of skill and smarts). But for "normal" wealth, I think it's the LEAST important factor. The people I know who worked very hard and went through law school became lawyers, medical school, doctors. Some later switched their careers and then became professional in those areas too. And they get paid. No luck involved at all...

 

[yetti]

I am, of course everything matters to a degree, but luck is the most important factor in my eyes.

Based on my personal experience.

I take it too far and forget about how factors other factors contributed to my success.

I remember when I landed a prestigious internship, luck was a huge factor (the manager told me he selected me because he thought I looked nice and trustworthy), but he also saw my websites, my university degree, my press articles, etc.

He didn't look at a blank page with my picture and went like "I'll hire that guy, he looks nice, even though he has no degree or skills whatsoever!"

I sent my resume from a crappy hotel room in Marrakech, with my best friend laughing at me: "You really think you're going to get selected? You're dreaming Bear!"

And then luck.

Yes probably you dont give yourself enough credit, sounds like you 100% earned it through your work. If he saw all that documentation of course it was persuasive in your hiring.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Again, I find myself agreeing and was about to type the same thing. Afro wrote:

>Skill, effort, and luck are all important. I can't see anybody rationally denying any of them, I think Bear is just engaging in hyperbole.
>Mark Zuckerberg for example had a lot of skill, the skill needed to make facebook. He had the foresight to focus on the right thing, he knew how >to code, he knew to drop out of college. But he also had luck. Facebook is something that could only be made in the early 2000s, and it wouldn't >have succeeded if he had started it at Oberlin or Michigan State.

Zuckerberg level of course there's some luck involved (tho a hell of a lot of skill and smarts). But for "normal" wealth, I think it's the LEAST important factor. The people I know who worked very hard and went through law school became lawyers, medical school, doctors. Some later switched their careers and then became professional in those areas too. And they get paid. No luck involved at all...

If you're assuming " normal" wealth then you're already assuming luck. Zuckerberg was born well into the top 1% of the American population, he went to Phillips Exeter for high school, a prestigious New England prep school, and then went to Harvard for University. There's a great deal of luck involved there. He was surrounded by brilliant and interesting and high-social-status individuals. That is aside from the fact that he was in good health. I know people who dealt with cancer or thyroid problems at that age -- they ended up achieving far less than they otherwise would have.

A friend of mine recently had a major setback in life because he got congested heart failure. He almost died while waiting for a heart transplant. He will never be the same, and never have as much energy. It's an extreme case, but overall medical problems in youth are fairly common once you include all medical problems, and they're very effective at torpedoing success.

IMO, anybody who thinks their success is entirely due to their own hardwork and talent has severe personality problems, including narcissism and a lack of self-awareness.

And yes, I include myself in that category, that category of being lucky. I'm very lucky -- I was born in one of the world's richest countries, with a public health care system. I went to an above-average school, I was lucky that there were brilliant kids that I could be friends with. I went to McGill University, one of the top universities in the world, and came out with modest student loans because Quebec is a social democratic society. When I went to graduate school I got a wonderful, wonderful and brilliant man as a graduate adviser. Does all of that contribute to my success? Yes. Is it all because of my hard work and talent? No. I promise you that my life would be worse if I had $200,000 in student loans now.

My second-most cited paper is one reporting a discovery. It's a good example of hard work and luck going together. I had to data mine like mad to find it, I had to be aware that I was observing an interesting anomaly where other previous people had failed to do so, but I was also lucky in that this feature actually exists in nature. I know lots of other scientists who work hard and don't find things, because sometimes nature doesn't give the most interesting answer.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Luck=being in the right place at the right time. Putting your coin in a slot machine at the exact time it's ready to jackpot. Missing your flight and then the plane crashes. Hitting on a hot girl who just got dumped and feels like she is no longer attractive. Playing the lottery and picking the same numbers that pop up on the screen. Shopping for a new car when they just lowered the price to an all time low. Investing in a stock that triples in value. Working in a town where you are the only one competent at what you do. Partnering with someone who has a product that is worth a billion dollars like George Clooney recently. Living in an era where you can do everything with a push of a bottom. Timing and luck go hand and hand.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Luck=being in the right place at the right time. Putting your coin in a slot machine at the exact time it's ready to jackpot. Missing your flight and then the plane crashes. Hitting on a hot girl who just got dumped and feels like she is no longer attractive. Playing the lottery and picking the same numbers that pop up on the screen. Shopping for a new car when they just lowered the price to an all time low. Investing in a stock that triples in value. Working in a town where you are the only competent at what you do. Partnering with someone who has a product that is worth a billion dollars like George Clooney recently. Living in an era where you can do everything with a push of a bottom. Timing and luck go hand and hand.

It also meant not suffering the burden of accumulated setbacks: medical problems, personal problems, family problems, bad landlords, bad bosses, etc etc.The cost of this sh*t can add up, some people are unlucky and deal with a lot of them.

We were told of one case at a talk recently. This was of a working-class American woman. She worked as a cashier at wal mart, she was very hard working. In order to be better at it, she made a recording of all the price codes, and listened to it in her sleep. One day, she was going to be late to work because her car had been robbed, she called her manager to say that she was going to be late. Her manager immediately fired her.

I know of another woman, her boss fell in love with her. When she declined, he decided that he was going to stalk her and to torpedo her career. He bad mouthed her to a bunch of people. She's now working in a different field, and she had to deal with the stress of being stalked by a crazy ex-boss for a while.

It's bad luck, to have a psycho manager or boss like that. Crazy bosses, bad health problems, etc etc etc there's a huge background of sh*t that many people have to deal with.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Unfortunately, most people will treat other people badly when they truly are not happy with themselves. Misery is always going to love company. Sometimes you just have to adjust your perception of certain people and lower your expectations just so you can function in society. That is why I tend to be loner alot. Avoidance sometimes is the best coping mechanism for some people to function.

 

[yetti]

Yes of course it is very lucky not to have health problems, lucky to be born into a situation in which you have a chance to prosper, lucky it's 2017 and not 1017 or 3000 BC or 100000 BC. Etc... if this is what we're talking about, then yes, of course obviously luck is the most important thing. But if luck means, you won't be successful unless someone randomly likes your face or you win the lottery, then I don't agree. I think most successful people fail a lot before they're successful. And at each juncture of failure one can either stop completely or (yes if one is healthy etc.) learn from it and push forward. I don't know about the situation in Europe but in the US I don't know anyone who completed grad school and was unable to work in their field. I also don't know anyone who didn't need to get loans for school, and who didn't work very hard there. Maybe the nepotism problem isn't quite as bad in the US as in some countries in Europe I don't know.

 

[Min0]

Men are more likely to go through with suicide because the manner in which they do it is actually to kill themselves. Like throwing themselves out of a building, shooting themselves, jumping off a bridge. Women would kill themselves at the same rate, but they would do something like overdose on Advil and just get sick the next day with a stomach ache and be fine and put into a mental hospital or given psychiatric help for the attempt at killing themselves. There's a study that shows basically men commit more suicides because they're actually more likely to try to kill themselves in a manner that actually works. Women are actually twice as likely to be depressed and have suicidal thoughts than men, their suicide attempts are just weak.

women don't commit suicide, they commit attention seeking.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

women don't commit suicide, they commit attention seeking.

A popular claim on the manosphere, but I have not seen it well demonstrated, not even close.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Yes of course it is very lucky not to have health problems, lucky to be born into a situation in which you have a chance to prosper, lucky it's 2017 and not 1017 or 3000 BC or 100000 BC. Etc... if this is what we're talking about, then yes, of course obviously luck is the most important thing. But if luck means, you won't be successful unless someone randomly likes your face or you win the lottery, then I don't agree. I think most successful people fail a lot before they're successful. And at each juncture of failure one can either stop completely or (yes if one is healthy etc.) learn from it and push forward. I don't know about the situation in Europe but in the US I don't know anyone who completed grad school and was unable to work in their field. I also don't know anyone who didn't need to get loans for school, and who didn't work very hard there. Maybe the nepotism problem isn't quite as bad in the US as in some countries in Europe I don't know.

I think that each of luck, skill, and hard work are almost always indispensable to impressive success.

I'm having a hard time thinking of when they're not, other than contrived examples such as winning the lottery. Further, even in the case of the lottery, I can speak personally and honestly when I say that winning 2,000,000 tomorrow would not necessarily transform my life. I would have to use the money wisely, and apparently most lottery winners don't.

I know lots of people who were not able to find work in their field after graduate school, who didn't need loans for school, or who didn't work that hard during school. I'm very surprised by your three comments. Regardless I didn't mean that I was lucky to not have student loans, I meant that I was lucky to have modest student loans. I know other people with student debts well into the six figures, that's very hard to overcome and you can be very vulnerable in that state. If a single thing in your life goes wrong, you're fucked.

Are you familiar with Elizabeth Warren's research on bankruptcies?

 

[hairblues]

I think the way most people in the world use the word luck is not how you guys are using it.