New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[Youcandoit]

hahahahah placebo effects? I am growing hair on temples that I've been slick bald for years. I am using a digital microscopic camera to monitor my progress and I am not a new kid on the block in here.. I am pretty much tried everything. They're plenty of members that already posted some great progress already. Placebo effects my ***. A lot of people should get their eyesight fixed first. It's been months since we started the derma rolling trials. If you don't have results after 6-8 month, you are not doing it right.. Bushbush, you look like a dumbass effect.

Bushbush voted for George Bush don't listen to him, there will always be people battling with you like the been dermarolling longer than you.

 

[bushbush]

hahahahah placebo effects? I am growing hair on temples that I've been slick bald for years. I am using a digital microscopic camera to monitor my progress and I am not a new kid on the block in here.. I am pretty much tried everything. They're plenty of members that already posted some great progress already. Placebo effects my ***. A lot of people should get their eyesight fixed first. It's been months since we started the derma rolling trials. If you don't have results after 6-8 month, you are not doing it right.. Bushbush, you look like a dumbass effect.

Great, and I hope it works. My point remains though that we should not hold every overexcited poster on an internet forum as a bastion of objectivity.

Bushbush voted for George Bush don't listen to him, there will always be people battling with you like the been dermarolling longer than you.

Youcandoit, keep going with the ad hominem attacks. They really strengthen your argument.

 

[Kirby]

I want to... I went as far as adding a derma roller to my cart in Amazon. I then took a closer look at the study and its authors and decided against it. I am hoping additional research comes out that corroborates their findings.

Just wondering, are there any specifics in the study that concern you, or is it more the issues with the journal that the study was published in that is the bad sign?

I have to admit there's some aspects of the study that have honestly always bothered me, since it appeared in July, but I'm still prepared to continue micro-needling at home once a week. I'm aware of the risks and limitations, but as experimental trials on hair loss forums go, this is the most successful ever – there's too many user reports with visible regrowth for the study to be a complete dud, and TBH this would have fizzled out months ago if there wasn't anything to it. IMO the big issue by now is how well it works, in the longer term, not whether it works.

 

[squeegee]

Great, and I hope it works. My point remains though that we should not hold every overexcited poster on an internet forum as a bastion of objectivity.



[/COLOR]Youcandoit, keep going with the ad hominem attacks. They really strengthen your argument.

Derma rolling is a working progress.. "not a work on not working thing". Why don't you read the various threads with results before pitching some invalid placebo effects argument. Some of us on here have a background fighting hairloss and yes micro-needling is a great add-on to fight male pattern baldness when done right. It is too late to be skeptical or hate on this experimental treatment, people already positive results which is non obtainable with the big 3. Stay lurker if you have nothing positive to add to the thread, simple as that. We want to focus on the "DO".

 

[bushbush]

Why don't you read the various threads with results before pitching some invalid placebo effects argument.

If you think the argument is invalid, I suggest you read up on the significance of the placebo effect in clinical trials (particularly when self assessment is involved). What we are doing here is no exception.

Some of us on here have a background fighting hairloss and yes micro-needling is a great add-on to fight male pattern baldness when done right. It is too late to be skeptical or hate on this experimental treatment, people already positive results with it non obtainable with the big 3.

Yes there have been positive reports, and hopefully they continue. However we are still not at the stage the evidence could be called irrefutable. No one here is an authority that can say people should not be sceptical.

 

[squeegee]

If you think the argument is invalid, I suggest you read up on the significance of the placebo effect in clinical trials (particularly when self assessment is involved). What we are doing here is no exception.



Yes there have been positive reports, and hopefully they continue. However we are still not at the stage the evidence could be called irrefutable. No one here is an authority that can say people should not be sceptical.

BushBush ,I just added you to my " idiot effects list". I don't argue with dumb asses anymore. Thanks for the negative reputation BTW. I love haters.

 

[Mach]

BushBush ,I just added you to my " idiot effects list". I don't argue with dumb asses anymore. Thanks for the negative reputation BTW. I love haters.

Please add me. Thanks!

 

[nicefella]

Squeegee you have contributed much to this forum, but cursing really hurts your credibility man, take it easy. Bushbush and Fallicule have a valid point and certainly at the experiment, dermarolling cannot be considered a cure. We need more time for overarching statements like that.

 

[mungyana]

Admittedly, academics are a pessimistic and skeptical bunch. However, there are good reasons for that. If the results are solid, then a stronger peer reviewed article should be forthcoming (unless it already has, in which case please link me). I wouldn't be missing but rather postponing a "cure."

I very much hope it works out for you (and others). The risks of your "community trial" seem pretty low, so all the best. I simply want to inform the community that this publication has hallmarks of a bad study.

Don't worry mate, some of us do appreciate your input. It's a valid point, the majority of people are (and rightly so) still sceptical about this. A few people have gained noticeable results but there are a hell of a lot of people doing this atm.

I think and HOPE this is working, but it's far too early to be calling it a 'cure'.

We should also be aware of the placebo effect. Some people want things to work so badly that they can get carried away, lose sight of objectivity, and literally convince themselves that it is working.

Squeegee you have contributed much to this forum, but cursing really hurts your credibility man, take it easy. Bushbush and Fallicule have a valid point and certainly at the experiment, dermarolling cannot be considered a cure. We need more time for overarching statements like that.

The pessimist moans about the wind, the optimist hopes the wind will change, the realist adjusts the sails. That's what they're trying to do here: adjusting the sails. Everyone make their contributions. 2y2r and youcandoit, for example, contribute their experiences and squeege back the references by citing many studies.

If you don't have something positive to contribute, you better just be quiet and read. Don't b**ch. Like me. Respect them. Appreciate them. They're doing an enormous job by reading many studies and experimenting them by their selves for the shake of us the balder.

 

[CursedMen]

Just did my 5th or so roll, still even more blood than last time. Skin on scalp is shedding. Doesn't hurt very much anymore. No cosmetic improvements yet; I am on 1mg daily, and I am rolling every 4-5 days. From now on it will be every 7 days.

 

[squeegee]

Just did my 5th or so roll, still even more blood than last time. Skin on scalp is shedding. Doesn't hurt very much anymore. No cosmetic improvements yet; I am on 1mg daily, and I am rolling every 4-5 days. From now on it will be every 7 days.

I take longer brakes as well.. Good stuff!unk:

 

[Youcandoit]

Just added you Mach. Nicefella, Been here for years, You don't like my post and my cursing, then you know what to do. Settings, Edit Ignore list add squeegee. You want to talk about the "placebo effects" then start a thread about it because you will obviously insult people on here having real results micro-needling. You got a ton of pictures already and we're still early in the treatment. You don't believe in them, then ****-off. We don't need you here. I never said anything about the frigging cure.. It is a great add-on to the male pattern baldness treatment because your are legitimately causing a physical changes to your scalp so follicles can live again instead of dumping liquid or taking pills. There are legit people on here having a good background with many hairloss treatments,knowledge and adding micro-needling was the difference maker. 2young2retire is just a really good example. I just hit zero tolerance with all the tourist members being skeptical,haters..etc.. it is an experimental treatment and works when done right. Wanna friggin talk about the placebo effects for +50 pages? Where you wanna go with this? What is the purpose? What is the real value to talk about the placebo effects for about a million pages? What is the value of it? What's placebo effects talk will bring to the thread? Is it going to add more hair to my head? See all the pointless goals that comes out from the idiots members here.

We need pro-active people doing something and participating about the subject, People that make **** happens.. not talibans that drag our asses down in their endless arguments,fear, life problems.. I am done arguing.


[video]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=11a_1319767399&comments=1[/video]

Got his hat slapped off his head lol. Sure he deserved it. Where do these people come from squeegee, one leaves and another takes their place. Why can't this thread be simple only need......

research, progress reports and excitement and motivation should be the natural reaction.

we don't need laziness, but not as annoying as fear mongerers talking about placebo effects to people with results. You might as well say people who grow hairs around wounds after having surgery are having a placebo effect. Plenty of pics shown here that should prevent all of this nonsense.

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The pessimist moans about the wind, the optimist hopes the wind will change, the realist adjusts the sails. That's what they're trying to do here: adjusting the sails. Everyone make their contributions. 2y2r and youcandoit, for example, contribute their experiences and squeege back the references by citing many studies.

If you don't have something positive to contribute, you better just be quiet and read. Don't b**ch. Like me. Respect them. Appreciate them. They're doing an enormous job by reading many studies and experimenting them by their selves for the shake of us the balder.

someone who understands it can be simple

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Just wondering, are there any specifics in the study that concern you, or is it more the issues with the journal that the study was published in that is the bad sign?

I have to admit there's some aspects of the study that have honestly always bothered me, since it appeared in July, but I'm still prepared to continue micro-needling at home once a week. I'm aware of the risks and limitations, but as experimental trials on hair loss forums go, this is the most successful ever – there's too many user reports with visible regrowth for the study to be a complete dud, and TBH this would have fizzled out months ago if there wasn't anything to it. IMO the big issue by now is how well it works, in the longer term, not whether it works.

Another wise person who's serious about growing hair, no moping or criticizing experienced rollers. Thanks for contributing to this thread, this is the kind of talk that helps newbies, not countering everything. It would be nice if newbies could know what has been achieved here, it can confuse people who could really use this method to grow hair and discourage them when they see turds trying to discredit something already proven. Hundreds of new hair growth equals proven.

i really dont don't need to come back here at all but I like helping people, being bald can really impact your life in a negative way, I want every single person to grow hair here no matter what they post, even bushbush. I'm at week 10, that's only 2 1/2 months, it has been proven with any treatment that 6-8 months is when you should think about wether or not you should continue or not.

I was slick bald at temples receding back 3/4 inch, now the hairline is completely filled in with black hairs half a centimeter long, I don't know what to expect by my 30th roll, but I don't see why the hairs should stop growing. I been watching them grow slowly,

 

[2young2retire]

friends dont get me a heartbreak cause i love you. did you see my post regarding sides from HEAVY wounding consistant

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as i can see it was infront of our eyes but we never made the thinking that wound produce hair. and in galea the enviroment is more hair friendly. so it makes absolutely sense on its own. no study learnt us this.the study just investigated a possible wounding method., this is my 2cent

 

[squeegee]

friends dont get me a heartbreak cause i love you. did you see my post regarding sides from HEAVY wounding consistant

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as i can see it was infront of our eyes but we never made the thinking that wound produce hair. and in galea the enviroment is more hair friendly. so it makes absolutely sense on its own. no study learnt us this.the study just investigated a possible wounding method., this is my 2cent

The internet bring all kind of people, gourmetstylewellness.com is a good example. From now on, every time somebody's showing up with a negative attitude..he will hit the garbage can list. I am done arguing with the useless crowd.

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The critical role of VEGF in skeletal muscle angiogenesis and blood flow.


The critical role of VEGF in skeletal muscle angiogenesis and blood flow.

Wagner PD.
Author information


Abstract

VEGF (vascular endothelial growth factor) is well known as an important molecule in angiogenesis. Its inhibition is pursued as an anticancer therapy; its enhancement as therapy for tissue ischaemia. In the present paper, its role in skeletal muscle is explored, both at rest and after exercise. Muscle VEGF mRNA and protein are increased severalfold after heavy exercise. Whereas global VEGF knockout is embryonically lethal, muscle-specific knockout is not, providing models for studying its functional significance. Its deletion in adult mouse skeletal muscle: (i) reduces muscle capillarity by more than 50%, (ii) decreases exercise endurance time by approximately 80%, and (iii) abolishes the angiogenic response to exercise training. What causes VEGF to increase with exercise is not clear. Despite regulation by HIF (hypoxia-inducible factor), increased HIF on exercise, and PO2 falling to single digit values during exercise, muscle-specific HIF knockout does not impair performance or capillarity, leaving many unanswered questions.

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Title: Micro Needling and Injecting Platelet Ri
ch Plasma to Enhance Collagen Synthesis and
Skin Tightening.

http://www.microneedle.com/main/MTS_Roller_PRP_Paper_by_DrGreco.pdf




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Growth Factor Production Known Effects:

1. Epidermal Growth Factor (EGF) - Stimulates fibroblasts to secrete collagenase to degrade the matrix during the remodeling phase.Stimulates keratinocyte and fibroblast proliferation.
2. Transforming Growth Factor- Promotes angiogenesis, up-regulates collagen production and inhibits degradation, promotes chemo attraction of inflammatory cells.
3. Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF) - Endothelial cells promote angiogenesis during tissue hypoxia.
4. Fibroblast Growth Factor (FGF) - Promotes angiogenesis, granulation, and epithelialization via endothelial cell, fibroblast, and keratinocyte migration, respectively.
5. Platelet-Derived Growth Factor (PDGF) - Attracts macrophages and fibroblasts to zone of injury. Promotes collagen and proteoglycan synthesis.
6. Interleukins, Macrophages, keratinocytes, endothelial cells, lymphocytes, fibroblasts, osteoblasts, basophils, mast cells - Activates fibroblast differentiation. Induces collagen and proteoglycan synthesis.
7. Colony Stimulating Factors - Stimulates granulocyte and macrophage proliferation.
8. Keratinocyte Growth Factor - Fibroblasts stimulate keratinocyte migration, differentiation, and proliferation.

 

[opti]

Whats now the goal ? Getting thicker or softer scalp ?feeling More pain or less pain on rolling areas ?getting collagen build up or block it with minoxidil?

 

[theRA]

And the control group in every double-blind minoxidil study didn't get results because...

it was a joke...

 

[karankaran]

When this thread started, I was here. I learnt a lot from knowledgeable debates which were held here. There was no cursing, no abusing. I think a constructive debate helps you understand a lot of stuff better. It did to me. I ordered DR, a numbing cream and a 70% rubbing alcohol. And i order rogaine foam. I was all set to start the journey despite some skepticism. But then, once when i asked a critical question, i was attacked personally and i thought - why is every1 so defensive about it to such an extreme extent? and that made me take a step back. I mean i still understand some stuff behind this methodology but the whole fanaticism has turned me off this. I have absolutely nothing against DRing approach, for me this is one of the experimental treatment and i am currently on one. Regarding results, again - for me success is when the whole bald spot is covered as in the original study. Because self assessment is sometimes misleading for partial results. i have observed it. Again, i have nothing against DRing as a treatment. All glory to it if it works! Again, it is my opinion, i am not casting negativity on DRing!

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BTW I was curious if any1 tried KGF from skinactives here after DRing...did it help?

 

[theRA]

Squeege by the way, do those little new hairs that you photographed grow? They seem very little. I was reading the old skin needling thread and some poeple also posted that they too achieved such results but those hairs never grew like normal ones and that they actually stayed little. So I was wondering how is it in your case?

 

[dawnfall]

I know it sound stupid but do you think it would be possible to post a video of you guys actually derma rolling (squeege or 2ytr) so at least we can see how you guys (who have result) actually do it, duration. Just an idea like that, no hate please I love you all

 

[SCALPMASTER]

Did my 8th roll today, my hair has definitely improved the crown in particular. I really hope those new vellus hairs next to my hairline get longer.