OT: most of the posters here know more than Doctors.

[The Gardener]

I have no ill feelings towards doctors. To the contrary, I admire them and they do amazing things for humanity.

However, I do think that doctors tend to concentrate their attention on matters of primal human survival, fighting diseases, keeping people alive, etc., etc.

Male Pattern Baldness, I am guessing, is something that is probably covered in an hour or two during med school. I bet that all a typical doctor knows about hairloss is what he/she learns from incidentally reading pharmaceutical marketing briefs on new products.

I am sure they know about puberty, and DHT, but I am also sure that they have a natural 'cover my ***' attitude when it comes to medications that involve suppressing hormonal activity for the sake of what seems to them to be purely superficial and cosmetic insecurities, in comparison to the other life-threatening issues that they are trained to assist humanity with.

Not only that, but when you think about the American health care system, hairloss treatments are a money loser. male pattern baldness does not require overnight stays, nor surgery, nor substantial follow-up that in the case of other diseases would allow a doctor rack up 'billable hours'. It's a pretty straightforward thing.

Now, I don't blame doctors for not being up on this stuff. We pay them big bucks for SAVING OUR LIVES, when we are seriously diseased or suffer traumatic injury. Hairloss treatments are not a matter for doctors to know, personally, they are something best handled by the FDA and, hopefully, the courts, in helping regulate and make sure that any possible hairloss treatment has sufficient proof in making concrete claims of success. And, on this forum are people who monitor such communications, and we do so with a much more vigilance than any GP or even a dermo Doctor.

From this, I derive my conclusion that the collective information on this site is far more reliable and accurate than anything you would get from a doctor or dermotologist, unless that doctor specifically has chosen to specialize in hairloss... however I doubt that any do, as I stated above there is no money in it for them.

 

[oni]

I agree with Gardener. I would not even bother going to a GP or a Derm in the UK about my hairloss. The GP would probably try to put me on antidepressants and the best I could hope for from the Derm is maybe minoxidil or propecia which I could get myself!!! :shock:. I think I will stick to this site thanks.

 

[rapidfrontal]

I feel like I say this all the time, but my father is a derm and he doesn't know sh*t about hairloss. He can recite the Propecia product insert word for word, but don't try to get any concrete answers out of him, because he doesn't have them. My policy is to read up on this site, understand that there are some overly dramatic posters (such as myself), but that there are also some very knowledgeable people here that can provide info that cannot be gained elsewhere, and check back with Dad every month until he admits that I am going bald and don't have Telogen Effluvium.

 

[Thinning]

Most doctors are worthless. I have met some good ones, like the guy who fixed my collarbone with a screw. But he is recognized as the leading expert in the field. I found him on the internet when my current Doctor wanted to cut me to ribbons to plate and screw a bunch of bones together and told me I would never be the same. Never listen to doctors when they tell you sh*t like that, or to just "deal with it" most likely they dont have a clue. In my guestimate, 80% of GP's are a waste of time, unless you just need antibiotics or something to get over a sinus or chest infection. Then I would guestimate about 1/3 to 1/2 of the specialists arent worth the money you pay them.

 

[allopeciajimmy]

Most doctors are worthless.

Couldn't disagree with you more; its quite possibly the most noble & demanding & needed profession one can go into. Sorry that you had a bad experience with your Doctor.

 

[Petchsky]

Mate...listen up, Most Doctors and Psychiatrists are nothing more than pharmacuetical pimps pushing the drugs they are given by the big corporations. Whatever is the main brand drug of GSK etc is what is prescribed, not what the best drug to help. Most Doctors and pharmaceutical companies are like two peas in a pod.

Do some research on it and you will see that Doctors that are open to dealing with these big drug companies find thenselves getting free lunches and weekends away in 5 star hotels etc etc all for agreeing to prescribe their drugs.

I'm not asking people to be cynical, but alot of the time it helps.

 

[thin=depressed]

Mate...listen up, Most Doctors and Psychiatrists are nothing more than pharmacuetical pimps pushing the drugs they are given by the big corporations. Whatever is the main brand drug of GSK etc is what is prescribed, not what the best drug to help. Most Doctors and pharmaceutical companies are like two peas in a pod.

Do some research on it and you will see that Doctors that are open to dealing with these big drug companies find thenselves getting free lunches and weekends away in 5 star hotels etc etc all for agreeing to prescribe their drugs.

I'm not asking people to be cynical, but alot of the time it helps.

Right on brother

 

[YoungGuy18]

I have to get on duasteride fast. I am going to have to go to the doctor to get a prescription but I really dont want to go because sometimes the doctors pull the I actually care about your health crap and dont want to prescrib you this. I am going to be so pissed if they do that considering i have to go through the pain in the *** visit to the regular doctor and go through the ridiculous procedure just to get a prescription. Will they give me a prescrition for dutasteride if I go do you guys think?

 

[Trent]

Mate...listen up, Most Doctors and Psychiatrists are nothing more than pharmacuetical pimps pushing the drugs they are given by the big corporations. Whatever is the main brand drug of GSK etc is what is prescribed, not what the best drug to help. Most Doctors and pharmaceutical companies are like two peas in a pod.

Do some research on it and you will see that Doctors that are open to dealing with these big drug companies find thenselves getting free lunches and weekends away in 5 star hotels etc etc all for agreeing to prescribe their drugs.

I'm not asking people to be cynical, but alot of the time it helps.

there are new laws restricting a lot of this now. i'm sorry you feel this way, i'd like to think me and most of my med school buddies are in it for helping people in their most desperate time of need. maybe someday a doctor's knowledge and expertise will save your life, and you will think differently.

 

[Guest]

I have to get on duasteride fast. I am going to have to go to the doctor to get a prescription but I really dont want to go because sometimes the doctors pull the I actually care about your health crap and dont want to prescrib you this. I am going to be so pissed if they do that considering i have to go through the pain in the *** visit to the regular doctor and go through the ridiculous procedure just to get a prescription. Will they give me a prescrition for dutasteride if I go do you guys think?

Judging from your screen name--YoungGuy18--I'd say the doctor won't prescribe it to you. Avodart, brand name dutasteride, is not approved for hairloss. If you've already decided you want to take dutasteride, and I'd think about it long and hard first, then you're better off checking out Inhouserpharmacy.com.

 

[allopeciajimmy]

Mate...listen up, Most Doctors and Psychiatrists are nothing more than pharmacuetical pimps pushing the drugs they are given by the big corporations. Whatever is the main brand drug of GSK etc is what is prescribed, not what the best drug to help. Most Doctors and pharmaceutical companies are like two peas in a pod.

Do some research on it and you will see that Doctors that are open to dealing with these big drug companies find thenselves getting free lunches and weekends away in 5 star hotels etc etc all for agreeing to prescribe their drugs.

I'm not asking people to be cynical, but alot of the time it helps.

well once again I completely disagree; i don't have to do any research because everone in my family is a doctor. I've seen my family members change peoples lives (surgery on a kid w/ cleft lip, neurosurgery on a little girl with a tumor in her brain, medications for 3rd world when they take a month off from as you put it"pimping drugs" to help those not well off enough to be on GourmetStyleWellness. So i'd ask you to do a little more reserach into a profession before bashing it. All doctors may not be perfect but as a group they are more into their job for allturistic purposes than any other profession out their. Why do you go to work everyday??? 98% would say because of the money? If you ask most physcians that number would be a lot less.

 

[Petchsky]

Both you, AlopeciaJimmy and Trent both have interests in the medical profession, most of your family are Doctors and you Trent are a med student... of course you don't want to believe that to be true.

I don't believe that to be true of all Doctors, as i stated in my first post. You say there is legislation in place to prevent this...well, im in the UK and speaking of the UK, but just because there is legislation in place does not mean it is adhered too.

P.S I probably do need to do more research, but so do you.

 

[taxi]

well. like in all professions you have teh good and the bad. In what concerns to hairloss, tough, at least here in portugal, doctors, most of them, are clueless, basicaly. you know why? because they don't suffer from it or, they are old or ... women...

Most of them don't belive in teh treatments or don't know them. I wouls stick with our exeperience witch is much more important. or with teh scientific studies. Doctors don't care about hairloss. It's not so important if you compare it with cancer. Hope they are good at that when necessary

 

[global]

I disagree with the premise I think its true that some doctors are not as informed as one might hope but almost any dermatolgist will know more than the most experienced od posters on here. Even if that poster has read every single paper on hairloss ever written. The fact of the matter is that people in the non medical profession simply don't understand the theory of medicine (the physio, patho, pharmocological) relationships that make upt he science of medicine. So simply becuause you know about one drug or its side affect doesn't mean you understand the Idea behind side affects their mechanistic detail and how they relate to everything else in the body. So i'll take my chances with a "unknowledgeable" derm over a lay person anyday.

In theory, but many posters here have been to dermatologists and found them to be clueless about male pattern baldness or treatments such as propecia.

 

[Trent]

Both you, AlopeciaJimmy and Trent both have interests in the medical profession, most of your family are Doctors and you Trent are a med student... of course you don't want to believe that to be true.

I don't believe that to be true of all Doctors, as i stated in my first post. You say there is legislation in place to prevent this...well, im in the UK and speaking of the UK, but just because there is legislation in place does not mean it is adhered too.

P.S I probably do need to do more research, but so do you.

true, i am a med student, so I am a little bias, i'll admit that. But no one in my family is a Doctor, and i've never really known any docs personally, so i'm not trying to defend anyone other myself and my fellow med students. you said you don't believe all doctors to be med pushing pimps, but you said "most of the doctors" are. I think you can appreciate that I feel obligated to defend my profession; I went into this thing hoping I could make a difference, and you're basically saying all my hard work and dedication for at least a decade (having no life, working 100 hour weeks) is simply done so that I can "pimp drugs." I take insult to that. If you were in the business world, and I said "Most business men are just money hungry barbarians just trying to make a buck and don't care who they hurt" you would feel insulted, am I right? Because its not true. don't let a few bad apples ruin your whole perception of doctors. I've said enough, we can agree to disagree at least until a doctor sews your arm back on, but, like I said, i feel obligated to defend my entire life goal.

cheers.

 

[Petchsky]

Fair enough. Naturally i was not meaning that your destinity is to be drug pushing pimp. It's hard not to make generalisations. I should have said some take the money and run.

An amicable settlement. Fight over :box:

 

[Trent]

truce.

 

[Cornholio]

Heal thyself

From the american primary care physician's point of view hair loss is not addressed in school or residency. That is not because they dont "care" or arent "interested" but because there just arent a lot of proven treatments for hair loss. Most would recognize finasteride and minoxidil as available treatments through reading journals but probably not from a lecture. Right or wrong, more time was spent on life threatening disease. I actually did a talk on hairloss in residency that was well recieved (even showed a norwood chart : ) out of personal interest, but that was probably the only training that group recieved. I have learned more about hair loss reading these boards than I ever did in school, but the sum of all this knowledge is that there is finasteride and minoxidil which have peak effects within a couple of years that may taper off after that. Personally I have have some enthusiasm for tricomin and nizoral, but their ultimate value for maintaining hair is supported only by small phase IIish trials (I would have to recommend them with a disclaimer that Im not sure how much it would help). Everything else discussed here may or may not amount to much regarding maintenence of hair or regrowth... RU, inflamil, topical anti-androgens... no clinical studies. So, should a primary care doctor recommend them without proven efficacy? Regarding dutas it is approved at the .5mg dose for another purpose, so I think many wouldnt see a problem with using it for hair loss if the patient asked and compared it to finasteride, and showed a graph or two (drug reps do not promote it for that purpose even informally) but for younger patients and higer doses ??? Probably not. Without phase III trials real efficacy and dose/benefit isnt known at higher doses. I have no idea what dermatologists know but, male or female, balding or non-balding, their training lets them see unproven hype and lack of studies for what it is. If a treatment were proven to be significantly helpful they would be selling it if for no other reason than to satisfy their patients. I think that the current system (proven treatments from physicians, self education and buy from India online if you're not satisfied and want to experiment a little) is satisfactory for now, and even appropriate given the lack of strong evidence that treatments other than "the big 3" have.

I should add that in a small town people do not really ask their doctor about hairloss... Its probably like errectile dysfunction, too embarassing. When told that there is a pill or ointment that isnt free, wont grow all of their old hair back, and that they will have to take every day forever most lose interest completely. The enthusiasm and motivation found on this board is slightly atypical from the stoic farmer's approach to hair loss.

Regarding perks and kickbacks the days of steak and lobster and trips to florida have been replaced (thanks to a law) by donuts, lunch from pizza hut occasionally and crappy pens for the most part. That is a good thing.

 

[ShedMaster]

Bullshit. That is like saying that someone who has a PhD in Football Science knows more about football than someone who actually plays it professionally.

Keeping with the analogy, this forum is the f*****g NFL players association of hairloss. We don't write articles about this sh*t to make money. We don't prescribe this sh*t to make money. We actually USE this sh*t, everyday, and collectively know all the ins and outs thereof.

If your dermo is bald himself and has actually dabbled in the topical sciences, then and only then will I humbly bow my head and defer to his/her knowledge. Other than that, they know jack sh*t.

I am not saying that my humble self, nor any other individual poster here knows more than a dermo... but I WOULD say that the collective knowledge discussed here every day is far more valuable and realistic knowledge than one would get from an hour visit to a dermo.

I agree 100%.