Pictures of why you need to be on finasteride after surgery
- Thread starter michael barry
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michael barry
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Me, in a little spare time, am such a threat to Gillenator...........who has hundreds of posts in several forums (very few of my posts are in hair transplant forums, but cloning and new discovery and topicals forums), because I tell the truth about propecia and the advancing nature of pattern baldness.
Guys,
Salesmen in the surgery biz talk youngsters into getting surgery based on the MISINFO of "propecia will stop you from losing hair for good". That just isnt so. Haircounts over baseline PEAK at year 2. They decrease every year thereafter for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. You are back to where you started on the drug between years 12 and 14. Dr. Ken Washenik has lectured on this. Go to propecia.com, and even the five year graph will show you what you can discern for yourself is a trend beginning in year three of a downward count, year by year. Propecia does not stop "all DHT", but about 70% of it.
So you buy perhaps 20 years with it, but you still will bald to where you were going to on it, just later. So if you have cueball genetics............................youre still going to get there. Phase 2 cloning trials will start late this month, early next month. In about 14 months, when the trials are over, we will KNOW ALOT about the future of hairloss. If the trials look extremely good................even I'd say one could get surgery and feel confident that they will have enough hair to "fill in " with later. I wouldnt do it before then though. Id at least wait until ICX's results are out in this important tests. We cant count on having enough hair unless "they" can make us some more for when we are older.
To be really UGLY honest, Gillenator and his ilk are very scared. Cloning will pretty much end big transplants. Doctors will only be dong hairline work in the years after cloning gets perfected. Someday, if the art gets better and direction gets refined to an artistically impressive point, even hairlines will proboably be done with cloning via bio-degradable tissue scaffolding techniques now being used in experiments with mice. Bypassing docs all together as surgical instrumentation is allowing hairs to be more or less "plucked" and the stem cells administered through shots that a nurse can give. Thats OK though, he can sell used cars, penis-enlargement pills, hold adult-toy-parties in fat women's homes, etc.
Guys,
Salesmen in the surgery biz talk youngsters into getting surgery based on the MISINFO of "propecia will stop you from losing hair for good". That just isnt so. Haircounts over baseline PEAK at year 2. They decrease every year thereafter for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. You are back to where you started on the drug between years 12 and 14. Dr. Ken Washenik has lectured on this. Go to propecia.com, and even the five year graph will show you what you can discern for yourself is a trend beginning in year three of a downward count, year by year. Propecia does not stop "all DHT", but about 70% of it.
So you buy perhaps 20 years with it, but you still will bald to where you were going to on it, just later. So if you have cueball genetics............................youre still going to get there. Phase 2 cloning trials will start late this month, early next month. In about 14 months, when the trials are over, we will KNOW ALOT about the future of hairloss. If the trials look extremely good................even I'd say one could get surgery and feel confident that they will have enough hair to "fill in " with later. I wouldnt do it before then though. Id at least wait until ICX's results are out in this important tests. We cant count on having enough hair unless "they" can make us some more for when we are older.
To be really UGLY honest, Gillenator and his ilk are very scared. Cloning will pretty much end big transplants. Doctors will only be dong hairline work in the years after cloning gets perfected. Someday, if the art gets better and direction gets refined to an artistically impressive point, even hairlines will proboably be done with cloning via bio-degradable tissue scaffolding techniques now being used in experiments with mice. Bypassing docs all together as surgical instrumentation is allowing hairs to be more or less "plucked" and the stem cells administered through shots that a nurse can give. Thats OK though, he can sell used cars, penis-enlargement pills, hold adult-toy-parties in fat women's homes, etc.
michael barry
Senior Member
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- 14
I'll just refer everyone back to the first post on page ONE at the beginning of the thread. Read the WHOLE thread folks. I think you'll see who the liars are and who the shills are.
Also, click on peoples profiles and read all the posts they've made here at GourmetStyleWellness. How some folks make all their posts in the surgical alternatives forum.
Let me also define "shill" for the newbies. Back in the 1800's, travelling medicine shows travelled the country selling "snake oil" as a cure for everything under the sun. A "barker" would stand up outside a wagon talking about how snake oil could cure this and that. A "shill" would stand up from the audience and tell everyone that gathered in the crowd how "snake oil" cured his gouty foot, bad eyesight, hurt back......or whatever and that it pretty much saved his health as "proof" that it worked. Beware of men making up extra screenames on seperate computers under different URL's so they can be shills.
Also look HARD at the amount of posts that someone has made. If someone has made 2 THOUSAND posts in a years time since they joined a website...........either they are obsessed with hair to the point of going insane or they are paid in some form or another to be here, or they are endlessly opinionated chatterboxes. But that isnt normal behavior.
AGAIN< READ THE POST I MADE THAT STARTED THE THREAD> SEE WHAT GOT IT STARTED.
Also, click on peoples profiles and read all the posts they've made here at GourmetStyleWellness. How some folks make all their posts in the surgical alternatives forum.
Let me also define "shill" for the newbies. Back in the 1800's, travelling medicine shows travelled the country selling "snake oil" as a cure for everything under the sun. A "barker" would stand up outside a wagon talking about how snake oil could cure this and that. A "shill" would stand up from the audience and tell everyone that gathered in the crowd how "snake oil" cured his gouty foot, bad eyesight, hurt back......or whatever and that it pretty much saved his health as "proof" that it worked. Beware of men making up extra screenames on seperate computers under different URL's so they can be shills.
Also look HARD at the amount of posts that someone has made. If someone has made 2 THOUSAND posts in a years time since they joined a website...........either they are obsessed with hair to the point of going insane or they are paid in some form or another to be here, or they are endlessly opinionated chatterboxes. But that isnt normal behavior.
AGAIN< READ THE POST I MADE THAT STARTED THE THREAD> SEE WHAT GOT IT STARTED.
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Thanks Carter. Why is it that some individuals will never believe or accept the fact that there are "some" good people in this area of medicine with good intentions that truly care about others.
You know guys I meet many good hearted people in the other areas that I volunteer my time and efforts in such as family and youth crisis counseling, and jail ministry. Our world does have some good folks in it if one can make an effort to look for it.
None of us get paid anything for it either. But anything that we can do for another in dire or crisis need is rewarding enough because people have value. And if just ONE person can rise above their traumatic situation, than it was all worth it!
You know guys I meet many good hearted people in the other areas that I volunteer my time and efforts in such as family and youth crisis counseling, and jail ministry. Our world does have some good folks in it if one can make an effort to look for it.
None of us get paid anything for it either. But anything that we can do for another in dire or crisis need is rewarding enough because people have value. And if just ONE person can rise above their traumatic situation, than it was all worth it!
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Aplunk1, I agree. These forums are supposed to be a safe place for real people to get helpful information. Thank goodness there are some good folks here like yourself because I have read your posts in helping others as well. Remember, no one can ever take away intregity from those who prove it with their actions. So keep up the good work man! :wink:
You too Carter!
You too Carter!
michael barry
Senior Member
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As Ive stated before,
I'll just refer everyone to the first post in the thread. Look at the pic, draw your own conclusions. By all means, read every post in the thread. I think you'll find out where the vested interests and the dishonesty lies.
What would have happened if Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... m-515h.jpg had gotten a bunch of plugs in his twenties guys? He'd look ridiculous by now with a connected, knotty combover......
I'll just refer everyone to the first post in the thread. Look at the pic, draw your own conclusions. By all means, read every post in the thread. I think you'll find out where the vested interests and the dishonesty lies.
What would have happened if Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... m-515h.jpg had gotten a bunch of plugs in his twenties guys? He'd look ridiculous by now with a connected, knotty combover......
Felk
Senior Member
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michael barry said:
What is this based on? I ask as i'd like to believe it, but it's too optimistic.
The long-term propecia trials showed that after year 5, the average hair count was 40 hairs more than baseline. Thats much less than, say, year 2 average haircount. On average it's year 5 that you are "back to where you started" then, right?
Also, proscar has only been around 14 years or so, so how could this be the time when people return to normal?
michael barry
Senior Member
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Felk,
LOOK AT THIS GRAPH http://www.propecia.com/finasteride/pro ... reases.jsp
Look at the BASELINE, thats the straight line all the way across the graph that looks like this : ___________________________________. That measures the initial haircount per square inch. Propecia works quickly, having its biggest increase in hairs per square inch in year ONE. Highest amounts of new hair are in year two. Then total haircounts decrease every year thereafter per square inch for the rest of your LIFE. At year five, just eyeing the graph, the average user looked like he was only 40-50 hairs higher per square inch that what he was five years before.
A hair transplant doctor that I emailed three years ago told me about Dr. Ken Washenik lecuturing on five milligram doses of finasteride (proscar and propecia are both finasteride, but proscar is a 5 times larger dose). The Doctor TOLD ME THAT most patients on finasteride were back to the original baseline haircount between years 12 and 14. You can deduce from just the five year result graph I posted above that the haircounts start going back down after year two. You basically keep baldning on propecia, but much more slowly. You'll get to where you were going to get to, but slower. Perhaps buying 20 years even, but you will get there on this drug. Dutasteride would last longer, but there are huge risks in cutting alpha five reductase type 1, beause its found in your brain tissue. We do not have a biological model for this like we do propecia, and we dont know the long term results of cutting this natural hormone's production down.
FOR ALL READING THE THREAD> GO BACK TO PAGE ONE, AND READ ALL THE ENTIRIES, ESPECIALLY THE INITIAL ONE> look at the pics. You'll see who the liars are.
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LOOK AT THIS GRAPH http://www.propecia.com/finasteride/pro ... reases.jsp
Look at the BASELINE, thats the straight line all the way across the graph that looks like this : ___________________________________. That measures the initial haircount per square inch. Propecia works quickly, having its biggest increase in hairs per square inch in year ONE. Highest amounts of new hair are in year two. Then total haircounts decrease every year thereafter per square inch for the rest of your LIFE. At year five, just eyeing the graph, the average user looked like he was only 40-50 hairs higher per square inch that what he was five years before.
A hair transplant doctor that I emailed three years ago told me about Dr. Ken Washenik lecuturing on five milligram doses of finasteride (proscar and propecia are both finasteride, but proscar is a 5 times larger dose). The Doctor TOLD ME THAT most patients on finasteride were back to the original baseline haircount between years 12 and 14. You can deduce from just the five year result graph I posted above that the haircounts start going back down after year two. You basically keep baldning on propecia, but much more slowly. You'll get to where you were going to get to, but slower. Perhaps buying 20 years even, but you will get there on this drug. Dutasteride would last longer, but there are huge risks in cutting alpha five reductase type 1, beause its found in your brain tissue. We do not have a biological model for this like we do propecia, and we dont know the long term results of cutting this natural hormone's production down.
FOR ALL READING THE THREAD> GO BACK TO PAGE ONE, AND READ ALL THE ENTIRIES, ESPECIALLY THE INITIAL ONE> look at the pics. You'll see who the liars are.
[/b]
Felk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
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This is the exact graph im talking about.
On average, as early as year 5 you are only slightly better than when you started. How can you say the average person is going to slowly lose this small margin over another 7-9 years?
I'm not accusing you of lying or anything of the sort, i'd just like to know what the claim is based on. Is it just the hair transplant doctor's email? If so, what did he base his claim on?
Cheers
On average, as early as year 5 you are only slightly better than when you started. How can you say the average person is going to slowly lose this small margin over another 7-9 years?
I'm not accusing you of lying or anything of the sort, i'd just like to know what the claim is based on. Is it just the hair transplant doctor's email? If so, what did he base his claim on?
Cheers
michael barry
Senior Member
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Felk,
The doctor I corresponded with based his info on a lecture he attended in which Dr. Ken Washenik, the guy heading up Anderans cloning research, spoke. Washenik was the one that presented the information.
All that being said, Ken Washenik has had 5 hair transplants and uses propecia and minoxidil. But he IS researching cloning day and night. Tell ya' anything? He wants it too. There is even a possiblity in cloning, since Jahoda's experiment putting a stem-cell induced hair in his wife's arm, that the STEM CELLS (but not a hair grown from one) may be immunologically-priveleged. What this would mean for us, is that people who have full heads of hair could be paid to have say 200 or so hairs taken out of the back of their heads in the future (the hairs would be replaced by a few cloned replacements made from them) and have the stem cells multiplied in a petri dish for implantation into someone else's head. Giving you not only "donor hair" multiplied, but "donor hair" from someone else's stem cells who does not have baldness.
Colin Jahoda did that experiment quite a few years ago now. His hair is (was) black. His wife was blonde. She had a black hair growing in her arm from it. They are divorced now, and she had it surgically extracted. Jahoda, who has a full head of grey hair, thinks researching baldness is a waste of time. I think he's wrong. If he cured baldness, he'd have made tons of money to funnel into research for serious disorders. Our loss, he's a bright scientists. Oh well......
The doctor I corresponded with based his info on a lecture he attended in which Dr. Ken Washenik, the guy heading up Anderans cloning research, spoke. Washenik was the one that presented the information.
All that being said, Ken Washenik has had 5 hair transplants and uses propecia and minoxidil. But he IS researching cloning day and night. Tell ya' anything? He wants it too. There is even a possiblity in cloning, since Jahoda's experiment putting a stem-cell induced hair in his wife's arm, that the STEM CELLS (but not a hair grown from one) may be immunologically-priveleged. What this would mean for us, is that people who have full heads of hair could be paid to have say 200 or so hairs taken out of the back of their heads in the future (the hairs would be replaced by a few cloned replacements made from them) and have the stem cells multiplied in a petri dish for implantation into someone else's head. Giving you not only "donor hair" multiplied, but "donor hair" from someone else's stem cells who does not have baldness.
Colin Jahoda did that experiment quite a few years ago now. His hair is (was) black. His wife was blonde. She had a black hair growing in her arm from it. They are divorced now, and she had it surgically extracted. Jahoda, who has a full head of grey hair, thinks researching baldness is a waste of time. I think he's wrong. If he cured baldness, he'd have made tons of money to funnel into research for serious disorders. Our loss, he's a bright scientists. Oh well......
not me!
Experienced Member
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michael barry said:
I'm not here to argue or to berate anyone. I'm just here to inform you that you are completely wrong on the identity of Gillenator. He and PeterMac are two entirely separate people. Both have posted their photos multiple times and I have even spoken to Gillenator on the phone on several occassions. If you can't get that right yet say it so vehemently as if it were true, why should anyone believe anything else you post?
Bottom line: calm down. It's just a difference of opinion about hair.
Felk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
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michael barry said:
Thanks for the in-depth reply michael, it's good to hear that it was someone in the know.
However despite his expertise, it is still only hearsay. The only clinical data we have (ie that graph) points at people getting just over 5 years maintenance on finasteride on average.
I'm sure some people get 12-14 years out of it (maybe more) but on average it's just over 5, according to the data.
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I agree, read every one. Especially take note that his posts do not contain any clinical or emperical substantiation. Read between the lines. You'll see that it's really his own opinions that he's propagating. Especially take note that he insists everyone with male pattern baldness will end up with his hypocritical wreath. Anyone doing any meaningful research knows that is not true. Clearly his agenda is to discourage anyone he can from getting a good hair transplant, because it's something he cannot have for himself. It's in EVERY one of his threads. Different disguise, but the same underlying motive and message.
Don't let him attempt to confine you to just "his threads and posts" either. That's exactly what he wants you to do. Notice he does not recommend everyone to read all of the other success stories in this forum and in the "other forums". That's because they are FILLED with them. Just read them for yourself, they are all there. Many success stories with lots of doctors which he or anyone else cannot deny.
Ask yourself, "well then why does he not ever mention them?" Also ask yourself on ANYBODY'S thread or post, "am I getting a one-sided opinion here?" And why are these radicals always on an anger rampage? :freaked2:
Don't let him attempt to confine you to just "his threads and posts" either. That's exactly what he wants you to do. Notice he does not recommend everyone to read all of the other success stories in this forum and in the "other forums". That's because they are FILLED with them. Just read them for yourself, they are all there. Many success stories with lots of doctors which he or anyone else cannot deny.
Ask yourself, "well then why does he not ever mention them?" Also ask yourself on ANYBODY'S thread or post, "am I getting a one-sided opinion here?" And why are these radicals always on an anger rampage? :freaked2:
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His information is totally "heresay" from a doctor he still refuses to mention by name. Obviously he has an agenda. :roll: