Pilox released: The Cure?

[hilbert]

This study came out this week; http://www.koreamed.org/SearchBasic.php?RID=0048KJD/2016.54.5.341&DT=1
So I checked into these clinical studies;
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ecific_Reference_to_Hair_Electrotrichogenesis
If you look at that study itself;
So yeah you got basically 3 studies backing up electric stimulation for hair growth. With LLLT we have studies also... Sounds quite nice right..
Then again you know all these studies are quite old... So why are we not using all that stuff? Why hasn't it become a fixture in everyone his regimen over the years? The price? I doubt it. It's just more logically assumable that it doesn't work that good. That's what I meant with LLLT being bs. However are there some people who are happy with LLLT? Yeah there probably are (even if that means a very low % of people). These absurd claims of companies is what I hate most though.
Generally when buying treatments like this I would personally just expect nothing and go with the mindset that you will probably lose your money. Then again who knows it might make you happy. It probably modulates hair follicle cycling yeah... I think you should view this device as one that does that, especially if you read the little piece of text under here (prolongation of anagen can happen too with environmental stimuli) Maybe it would be wise to wait so you get some more anecdotal evidence from other people. Hope that helps.

hi Swoop; the more I read into male pattern baldness stuff, the more I see a blurred boundary between anti-androgens meds and growth inducing meds.
I mean, I've always kept these 2 categories into 2 separate drawers in my mind, with labels: maintenance and growth stimulation.
E.g. metabolism of DHT in the follicles (both male pattern baldness and non-male pattern baldness ones) as one of the major signals for the follicle life cycle (at some point, an increase in DHT by local 5-alpha-reductase tells the follicle to enter catagen).
So, reducing DHT or blocking is only enlarging the anagen phase? (and what about the depletion of stem cells in the DP?)

So, I started being confused and thinking that it's always about having a longer anagen. Both classes of meds try to achieve the same goal...

What do you think? (I know, this is loosely connected to pilox, but.)

 

[Swoop]

hi Swoop; the more I read into male pattern baldness stuff, the more I see a blurred boundary between anti-androgens meds and growth inducing meds.
I mean, I've always kept these 2 categories into 2 separate drawers in my mind, with labels: maintenance and growth stimulation.
E.g. metabolism of DHT in the follicles (both male pattern baldness and non-male pattern baldness ones) as one of the major signals for the follicle life cycle (at some point, an increase in DHT by local 5-alpha-reductase tells the follicle to enter catagen).
So, reducing DHT or blocking is only enlarging the anagen phase? (and what about the depletion of stem cells in the DP?)

So, I started being confused and thinking that it's always about having a longer anagen. Both classes of meds try to achieve the same goal...

What do you think? (I know, this is loosely connected to pilox, but.)

What do you mean exactly by this? Androgens are a prerequisite for Androgenetic Alopecia to occur, the same could be said for the androgen receptor.

Modulation of hair follicle cycling can be unrelated to the pathway chain of Androgenetic Alopecia. You can modulate hair follicle cycling in someone who doesn't have Androgenetic Alopecia too.

Take minoxidil or PGF2a (bimatoprost) for example. If you would give this to a norwood 1 non-Androgenetic Alopecia subject on his scalp it's highly likely that he will have increased hair counts too. Simply due to pushing telogen hair follicles into anagen and subsequently prolonging anagen or due to other hair follicle cycling alterations.

You can see this on body hair too with these compounds. Indeed both compounds can modulate the hair follicle cycle too in body hair. After all bimatoprost can be used to enhance the eyebrows/eyelashes and minoxidil can induce increased body hair growth, even hypertrichosis.

The difference is that they fundamentally don't do anything against the pathway chain of Androgenetic Alopecia. Let me give you an example. You can take a subject who is balding and give him minoxidil to use on his head. He will show increased hair counts simply because the compound is altering the hair follicle cycle. You also give him some minoxidil to use on his beard. He will have better hair growth too. However over time his hair on his scalp will start suffering because you are fundamentally doing nothing against the damage and he will fall below baseline. His beard however won't suffer and as long as he is applying the stuff he is changing the hair cycle there and he will stay above baseline there.

Works like that on average. Finasteride will make you stay at least above baseline in most subjects for a long period of time. Minoxidil won't and this reflects in the studies done on minoxidil too where subjects will initially have increased hair counts but will fall back to baseline within 2 years. Now there are some (weak) studies done by Olsen for instance where minoxidil can let someone stay above baseline for more than 5 years. Yeah well guess what man if you would put minoxidil on Brad Pitt his scalp it would give him hair counts above baseline probably for over 10 years lol. This is logical as he wouldn't suffer from Androgenetic Alopecia, same as the beard hair. It's also important in some studies where the measurement has been taken (on what part of the scalp). Was it on a very sensitive area of subject in the frontoparietal region? Or somewhere in the mid scalp where the hair follicles of the subjects weren't genetically programmed to succumb aggressively?

Now you could hypothesize that minoxidil might actually do something against the pathway chain of Androgenetic Alopecia itself. For instance here is a study that mentions that it may suppress androgen receptor related functions. In that sense it might "control' a (tiny) part of the damage too of Androgenetic Alopecia. But how much weight should we put to something like that. Probably not much as evidenced by the studies of minoxidil.

Currently we only have two targets to follow to disrupt the Androgenetic Alopecia chain completely and that is either acting on androgens or the androgen receptor. The latter is very hard with current drugs but the former is easy through castration.

Now you could also hypothesize that you can act in damage control of other factors that are implicated in the Androgenetic Alopecia chain. A simple schematic hypothetical scenario would look like this

Androgens > AR > ... > ... > PGD2
Androgens > AR > ... > oxidative stress


Now in this situation you might act on PGD2, through for instance using a DP2 antagonist or using a strong anti-oxidant to deal with "part" of the damage of the pathway chain of Androgenetic Alopecia to slow down the progression. In this situation you aren't necessarily modulating hair follicle cycling but dealing with the pathway chain. This is pure hypothetical though, the best is to deal with androgens. That being said prostaglandins are implicated in modulation of hair follicle cycling too. It's dynamic as you can see. We need to understand Androgenetic Alopecia more.

Multiple factors can modulate hair follicle cycling btw. For instance some people are born with genetic defects. Like VDR mutations, EDAR, HR (hairless).. You can see in these people that they often suffer from full or partial alopecia in their life. You could say that these factors are necessary for proper hair follicle function.

Similarly you have some compounds that induce heavy hair loss like a SHH antagonist.

Also like I mentioned in the above generally telogen hair follicles are very responsive to environment stimuli. In some studies for instance it has been shown that a simple ethanolic vehicle can lead to increased hair counts lol. Something like cyclosporine will also modulate hair follicle function, resulting in hypertrichosis. I

Another example would be someone suffering from thyroid disease which could lead to hair loss.. Well if you look at the following studies;

Neuroendocrinology of the hair follicle: principles and clinical perspectives

The human hair follicle (HF) is an exquisitely hormone-sensitive mini-organ that undergoes cyclical remodeling. It is also a source and target of numerous neurohormones, neuropeptides, and neurotransmitters that regulate HF growth, pigmentation, remodeling, immune status, stem cell biology, and energy metabolism. Indeed, organ-cultured human scalp HFs can be utilized to identify ‘novel’ clinically relevant functions of major neuromediators. This is pertinently illustrated by the discoveries of: (i) thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) as a hair growth and pigmentation stimulator; (ii) TRH and thyrotropin (TSH) as potent promoters of mitochondrial activity and regulators of keratin expression; and (iii) prolactin as an epithelial stem cell modulator. Thus, HF neuroendocrinology affords insights well beyond hair growth and dermatoendocrinology, uncovering new translationally relevant neuroendocrinology principles and novel therapeutic targets.

Pituitary thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) regulates thyroid hormone synthesis via receptors (TSH-R) expressed on thyroid epithelial cells. As the hair follicle (HF) is uniquely hormone-sensitive and, hypothyroidism with its associated, increased TSH serum levels clinically can lead to hair loss, we asked whether human HFs are a direct target for TSH. Here, we report that normal human scalp skin and microdissected human HFs express TSH-R mRNA. TSH-R-like immunoreactivity is limited to the mesenchymal skin compartments in situ. TSH may alter HF mesenchymal functions, as it upregulates alpha-smooth muscle actin expression in HF fibroblasts. TSH-R stimulation by its natural ligand in organ culture changes the expression of several genes of human scalp HFs (for example keratin K5), upregulates the transcription of classical TSH target genes and enhances cAMP production. Although the functional role of TSH in human HF biology awaits further dissection, these findings document that intracutaneous TSH-Rs are fully functional in situ and that HFs of female individuals are direct targets for nonclassical, extrathyroidal TSH bioregulation. This suggests that organ-cultured scalp HFs provide an instructive and physiologically relevant human model for exploring nonclassical functions of TSH, in and beyond the skin.

It's not such a surprise either that someone with shitty thyroid function in rare cases can have hair loss too due to hair follicle cycle modulation of disrupted TSH levels. The hair follicle is a complex mini-organ.

Examples go on... I can't give you an exact calibrated answer on this all though. We'll need to know more about Androgenetic Alopecia. It's important to prevent as much damage from happening in Androgenetic Alopecia though.

 

[champpy]

This study came out this week; http://www.koreamed.org/SearchBasic.php?RID=0048KJD/2016.54.5.341&DT=1



So I checked into these clinical studies;

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ecific_Reference_to_Hair_Electrotrichogenesis



If you look at that study itself;



So yeah you got basically 3 studies backing up electric stimulation for hair growth. With LLLT we have studies also... Sounds quite nice right..

Then again you know all these studies are quite old... So why are we not using all that stuff? Why hasn't it become a fixture in everyone his regimen over the years? The price? I doubt it. It's just more logically assumable that it doesn't work that good. That's what I meant with LLLT being bs. However are there some people who are happy with LLLT? Yeah there probably are (even if that means a very low % of people). These absurd claims of companies is what I hate most though.

Generally when buying treatments like this I would personally just expect nothing and go with the mindset that you will probably lose your money. Then again who knows it might make you happy. It probably modulates hair follicle cycling yeah... I think you should view this device as one that does that, especially if you read the little piece of text under here (prolongation of anagen can happen too with environmental stimuli) Maybe it would be wise to wait so you get some more anecdotal evidence from other people. Hope that helps.

This past week I began using Electro stimulation on my scalp. It's a very rough device I put together at home I'm using the stims device attached to a metal hair pick. I turn that thing on a low setting touch my scalp all over and let it tingle away. In some areas it really hurts but I do the best I can to make it through 30 minutes each time. I'm going to try to let this happen for at least 2 months and see if I notice any difference. I've had a stim device help muscles and tendons repair faster before so who knows this may do something for hair as well. If anyone has any ideas of ways to make this more effective please let me know. Especially something I can substitute for the hair pick as it's not working that great

 

[hilbert]

Hi @Swoop , thanks for the discussion. That plot is more or less as I expected it to be; i.e. the difference between growth stimulants and "damage controllers".
My point was: since the DHT has a function in setting the follicle into catagen (both male pattern baldness-bound and not), then also inhibiting somehow the DHT is yet another way to prolong the anagen phase...
In other words, it seems to me that whatever we do for male pattern baldness nowadays is always aimed to lengthen the anagen phase.
Of course, for male pattern baldness follicles, inhibiting the action of DHT also saves the follicle from degeneration... (but is this due to too frequent cycles, so the length of the anagen is the culprit again?)

Also, what I cannot understand is when the DHT is "allowed" to signal the start of the catagen phase... it's always there, so why it manages to start the catagen only at specific times?

 

[DoctorHouse]

I am very interested in trying this device but when is it going to be available to people in the United States? Anyone email them about delivering to the USA? Swoop, what do you mean by a forwarding service in Europe?

 

[Optimistic1]

Bump. What's going on with the user "Newplayer" who started using the device. Any updates?

 

[newplayer]

Hey, well.. It's still very, very early to make some conclusions, but so far so good... little less shedding than usual.

 

[Blackber]

Hey, well.. It's still very, very early to make some conclusions, but so far so good... little less shedding than usual.

Can you use this if you have longer hair?

 

[newplayer]

Yes.

 

[Optimistic1]

When did you start using it Newplayer?

 

[newplayer]

Roughly 15 days ago. I'm having a hectic time at work lately, so days turn into nights fast...

 

[mariagreen]

Hello there
I just ordered the Hairegen
hope it would work on me
Of course I will update you all
newplayer, you can upload some photos?

 

[whous26]

receive mine today

 

[whous26]

@newplayer have you any news about @Dorzry ?

I start with the beginners level , it's a little painful, and feeling for a few minutes after.

 

[Crespo88]

I live in sweden and can send to you in US if anyone wants it.
?

 

[Crespo88]

I ordered hairegen today from hairegen-online.com. it costed nearly 900 euros. I will try this device togheter with din+minoxidil and keta shampoo. I have started a thread where i will document the effect of this device.

 

[Seuxin]

Hello,

Any news about this device ? Some progress...Or not ?

 

[resu]

The device is shipped from Europe, so no customs fees or other issues plus they accept Paypal, it's really tempting. If people start posting positive results I can see this being a big hit and hopefully more evidence is shown.

 

[whous26]

this makes two weeks that I use the device , for the moment no change , but i i had to cut my hair for the slide easier , and
i misused the product, I was going too slowly, I did not watch the video to properly use the product, I 'll let you know the result , I make pictures regularly.

moreover i speak with hairegen on facebook for ask another before/after pics and they tell me they will open a new website with photo inside.

 

[Mattias]

I dont get it. Are hariegen and Pilox the same thing?