please help, don't know what to do

[brian liles]

hi guys, this is my update. I am really depressed and need advice.

I have been taking propecia for 11 months now, and it has done nothing so far. I stoll lose alot I mean ALOT everytime I shower, comb, style, etc, on the pillow etc. the pictures I have taken before showsn that I am worse than befroe starting propecia. my crown is now visibily thinning, I mean nothing has improved instead it has become worse.

what should I do? should I try avodart? I have no idea. since it hasn't been approved by the fda yet, not sure what the dosing is. Please someone help with advice

 

[TravisB]

Well, either you have to wait some more time for the results, or you are in 10 % of people that Propecia doesn't work on. I personally think that if Propecia don't work for you, then nothing will. Well, you could always try Dutasteride if you wish...

 

[brian liles]

how much more time though? I heard dutasteride block more dht though. I have no idea what to do

 

[TravisB]

Official propecia papers say that if you won't see results after 12 months, then it's unlikely you'll see them later.

 

[brian liles]

so far its been 11 months, in one month it will be 12. I don't think anything will happen in 1 month to be honest. I know for sure that I am a non responder. the amount of hair that falls out is unbeleivable as mentioned. so if one does not respond to propecia then he won't repond to dutasteride as well?

 

[Chris87]

Where are you getting your finasteride from? Is it brand name propecia?

You could try dutasteride if you didnt get sides from finasteride. I would say that you should be seeing results after 11 months..it may be slowing down your hair loss though..its possible that you have really aggressive loss and you would have been bald if you hadnt gotten on finasteride.

If you want to throw everything at it you could try dutasteride in combination with minoxidil

 

[brian liles]

I get brand name propecia from wal mart pharmacy here in canada.


chris87 even before propecia I use to shed alot but the loss was at a snail pace as I have fairly thick hair over all, but before taking propecia my crown was not that visible at all. now it is, and not the same like 11 months ago. im 26 years old right now, nd I have been losing hair since 22,23, but it wasn't notciable at all, only if you were up close. when I started last year there was only mild thinng, and all I wanted was to maintain, did not care about regrowth as I still had a lot of hair with very mild thinning as diagnosed by my derm. just mainting it was a total victory. If if i take a comb and run it through my hair lets say 5 times, there will be 1o hairs in it all weak thin hairs. my crown and mid anterioir sclap look bad now. before taking it they were mild thinning that wasn't that noticable, now its kinda noticable. propecia basically has done nothing so far. Im so depressed man. I even have a more itchy scalp kinda will being on propecia. I use nizoral as well.


I have 0 side affets from propecia this past year. should dutasterid help more? I have no idea what the dosing is with dutasteride.

 

[Chris87]

I believe people take .5mg of dutasteride per day but I would definitely check with someone who takes dutasteride about that or look up threads on dutasteride here. dutasteride will definitely block more DHT (somewhere around 90% or something). So you never saw a reduction in shedding or anything the whole time on finasteride?

Personally I started with .25mg every other day of finasteride (I did that for a month and now recently started taking .25mg every day). Within the first 2 weeks i saw a drastic reduction in shedding (some days none at all) just taking .25mg every other day (my hair loss is not aggressive..been losing hair for 3 years and still not noticeable..though i started with a ton of pretty thick/coarse hair).

 

[brian liles]

lucky you. Im happy it worked for you, as hairloss is very devasting.

nah bro, I still lose a lot. its basically like I have taken nothing thse past 11 months. Im reading on the internet and doctors say avodart really hasn't shown any effectovensess over propecia, etc. not sure at all.

my hairloss is not the afressive type, my dermatologist last said my thinning was so mild that propecia should stop. As I said I did not even want regrowth. now 11 months later the crown is visibly thin, and the front is bad as well.

I have even done complete blood works to make sure nothing else is causing the loss and eveything is good. good thyroid, good iron levels, everything normal.


not sure why propecia jas failed because my hairloss is not the agressive type

 

[brian liles]

I will exactly describe the shedding


when I am in the shower this is the amount of hair that I count that is in my hand. I waste so much time in there due to the counting. I always count about 30 to 40 hairs. there might be even more falling int he drain that I miss, but lets just say 40 hairs that I count in my hand officialy. then when I comb my hair while it is semi wet (I wrap my hair in the towel so it can dry a bit) There is about 20 hairs in the comb. I slick it back. then I blow dry. in the blow dry process therse is another maybe 25 hairs in there, and up to 25 on the floor. then on the pillow prior to showering up to 15. this was the same rate before propecia, and the same just a little more while on propecia.

man Im so confused

thanks again to all the responder in this thread for your inputs. I appreciate it alot

 

[brian liles]

the hairs that I lose are mostly weak thin almost colourless hairs, mixed with thick dark hairs

 

[FiniMin]

This is copied from Dougies success story under the success story section and may give you some relief. Notice it took over a year for him with his 12th and 14th month being bad with huge amounts of shedding which Im willing to bet anything that is exactly whats happening with you. He didnt start seeing real resutlys until his 15th month. Some people would have mistakenly given up long before that. This happens with a lot of people who take finasteride and sadly, being that they arent educated by sites like this, they mistake shedding for it just continuing to fall out and think that finasteride is not working for them, and go off of it. It amazing how many people go bald when they couldnt have easily have prevented it by going on finasteride. Anyways, read what I pasted from his success story and hang in there. I'm sure this time next year you'll be thanking yourself big time! If your really that concerned, you may want to consider talking to your Doctor about increasing your dose slightly to 1.25 mgs. and see what he says. Also, be patient, as its probably the most important thing you can do when taking finasteride:

"On finasteride...
The first 3 months were hell, but I kept my hair
real long. I know I shed like a banshee though.
Months 3-6 nothing really happened. Months
6-9 I had a horrible shed, but stuff started
growing toward the end as there was no change
in the way my hair looked. Then, months 10-12
things were awesome, I could start spiking my
hair up again which was sweet. Months 12-14 I
would say were pretty bad, I shed huge and my
spot which was bad, the area right up in the
front on my hairline, was ridiculously thin.
Month 15 or so everything picked up and my
hair has been that way since.
I would say the worst months were 6-9 and I
am currently in the best months. My ex chick
said my hair is way thicker than before and so
did my father who told me that he thought I
was losing my hair but and wanted to know
what happened.
Oh, I am a diffuse thinner and it worked equally
well everywhere.
The best part is, I more than likely would have
just stopped using it after 9 months because at
that time it didn't look significantly different. A
combination of not cutting my hair til after 9
months and knowing from this website that I
would need to wait out the sheds kept me going
on it.
Oh, I got my fincar from inhousepharmacy I
believe.
I have a pic, but I don't really want to host it
anywhere. If I could just upload it here I would."

 

[brian liles]

thank you, it is a relief and appreciate your help.

the only thing I don't understand is my crown looks way thinner and you can see a mini bald spot forming. brefore propecia I didn't have this. thats what i am worried about. a year on it and I see a bald spot forming

 

[FiniMin]

The fact that your shedding in areas that weren't shedding BEFORE taking Finasteride very likely means that it IS in fact working because shedding occurs globally. (You may want to go into the Shedding section of the forum and read the information on top that explains shedding: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12865). It says that shedding will occur globally which means all over, especially in areas where the balding is occurring, but also in areas that weren't normally effected by your pattern of male pattern baldness before taking finasteride. In almost all cases, it DOES GROW BACK, and some report that it comes back thicker. So if you weren't shedding in that area before you starting taking Finasteride and now you are that would HAVE to mean that this is in fact a shed and not actual hair loss. So that my friend, is good news. Below are a couple sections that are from that post that applies specifically to shedding on Finasteride but after reading these, you should definitely check that post out in the Shedding Section of this forum. I included the link above^. Hope this information helps you understand your situation. I am going through a shedding phase myself so I can relate big time but I know that shedding is actually a GOOD thing because that means the treatment IS working and that each hair I shed WILL grow back, possibly even thicker and healthier. I just keep reminding myself not to focus or worry about how my hair is now because, since I am shedding, I know it's working which means this time next year, my hair will look much, much better. SO LOOK FORWARD TO THE FUTURE AND DON'T WORRY OR STRESS ABOUT THE PRESENT. Anyways, here is the info I pasted from the Shedding section:

"Finasteride (Propecia / Proscar)

There have been multiple reports of excessive shedding several months after finasteride therapy. Typically, there is a good response to finasteride to prevent or reverse male pattern baldness. Then, around the 11th to 16th week, there can be sudden shedding, sometimes on a massive scale. The entire phenomenon fits the description of a telogen effluvium. It is a common observation that post-partum women often suffer the same temporary hair loss. In the case of finasteride use, the telogen effluvium appears to be a reaction to the sudden change in the systemic levels of the sex hormone, DHT. Often the cause of a telogen effluvium are obscure, but has been related to high fevers, stress, trauma, medications, etc.

The shedding is generally diffuse (global) and can affect areas of the scalp not usually affected by male pattern baldness. So, it would be common to note shedding from the sides and back of the head in addition to the crown, vertex and frontal areas. The shedding tends to be fairly symmetrical, but will be more noticeable in the areas affected by male pattern baldness, because there is a higher ratio of hairs in the telogen phase than in the other areas of the scalp.

The duration of a telogen effluvium is variable, but rarely lasts more than a few months and there is invariably complete restitution unless another pathologic process also occurs.

As a rule, treatment is not necessary because the hair will grow back. For most patients, there is no evidence of residual loss of hair within a year. However, there have been cases of patients taking finasteride and reporting repeated bouts of excessive shedding. In this situation, it would be advisable to discontinue use of finasteride in favor of alternative anti-androgens"



This is another very good explanation of shedding from that post, though I only pasted part of it:


"January 15, 2004
Written by Dr. Kevin McElwee & gourmetstylewellness.com

No doubt if you're a hair loss sufferer, you've had to deal with the most unpleasant part of it: Shedding. Find out why it happens, what it *really* is, how long it will last, and what you can do about it...

Whether it happened before, during, or after you started treatment can play a big role in how devastating a shed is for you, but no matter what, one thing is always for certain... its no fun. Shedding is one of the biggest complaints we receive from our users here on gourmetstylewellness.com, and the level of concern heightens when its seen *after* starting a treatment like Propecia or Rogaine.

Shedding is Normal

Believe it or not, shedding after starting a treatment is fairly common. In fact, more often than not, our users report increased loss a few weeks to a few months after starting Propecia or Rogaine (or both!). But what a shock it can be to those who don't expect it. They finally take that dive into the daily commitment of fighting their hair loss. They're finally ready to do something about it, and as hopeless as things may seem, they put all their trust in the clinical data. They have a few weeks of feeling a little better about things, hoping for the best, knowing they're doing all they can ... and then something goes wrong. They actually start to *lose* hair. At least that's how it looks. Instead of going forward, they're going backwards. The more level headed shedders decide to wait it out a few days, only to see it continue... and continue... and continue. The rest panic, or just throw in the towel entirely. They decide they are not "responders" to the treatment, that the treatment doesn't work, or quite simply that God has forsaken them. Fortunately, they're wrong on all three counts...

What exactly is Shedding?

In all cases, treatments or no treatments, shedding is not actually "losing hair". This is one of the most common misconceptions in the world of hair loss. Shedding is in fact just the transition of follicles from growth phase to resting phase. They don't fall out and die, never to return. They in fact "go to sleep", to return several months later. Hair follicles work in cycles as part of their normal processes. Even the person not losing his or her hair goes through the same cycles. The hair will grow for awhile, and it will rest for awhile. In the case of someone *not* using any treatments, but experiencing Androgenetic Alopecia (Male or Female pattern baldness), shedding is typically the continued cyclical process, combined with miniaturization. What does this mean? It means each time those hairs go dormant and come back, they come back weaker, thinner, and less pigmented, ultimately resulting in the perception of less hair and more scalp skin showing. There are theories out there as to why hair seems to go "all at once" for those losing hair, but they are still just theories. The most common one is the theory that those with androgenetic alopecia see more of a synchronization of dormancy. Meaning - more hairs go dormant at the same time, ejecting the existing hair and shutting down temporarily. Either way, the moral of the story is the same: Shedding is not losing hair. Its dormancy. And it is up to you as to whether those hairs cycle back in thicker and stronger, or thinner and weaker. That's where using a DHT inhibiting, or growth stimulating treatment comes into play.

Shedding *because* of my Treatment?!?

Its possible, and as mentioned above, rather common. Surprised? Its actually the most common reason why people think hair loss treatments don't work! If you start a new treatment like Rogaine or Propecia, you probably will shed, but the amount of hair shed varies from person to person. It has long been suspected that there is an increase in shedding in the first 3 months or so. Recently, some studies using a digital phototrichogram (Trichoscan, Marburg, Germany) proved that there was indeed a quantifiable increase in shedding and a corresponding loss of hair density in the first 3 months of minoxidil use. However, by the 6 month stage the subjects were shown to have regrown the lost hair and had increased hair density compared to that recorded at the start of treatment. By 12 months after starting minoxidil use their hair density was much improved and the diameter of the hair fibers was thicker than at the start of treatment and as compared to controls who did not receive treatment. This small study proves what has long been suspected and frequently discussed on hair loss forums, that there is an initial shed phase when first starting minoxidil use.

How long will it last?

Shedding is temporary. If the individual continues their treatment consistently, despite the seeming despair and loss of hope, shedding will end and the lost hair should be replaced. "

 

[brian liles]

thanks for the help again, I understand shedding can be a good sign and all, but I read that is says sverel weeks to a few months, i am now on month 11 almost to 12 months and still shedding like crazy. does that still apply to me, or shedding in the 11 or 12 month means time to give up?

 

[abcdefg]

I personally would advise against using dutasteride for hair loss no matter how bad it gets. I dont think dutasteride is a very safe drug to use long term. It blocks DHT in a lot of other important places that finasteride does not such as the skin and brain. Its also not approved for hair loss.

 

[FiniMin]

The fact that your shedding is all the more reason NOT to stop taking it in my opinion regardless of when its happening. Shedding can occur at any time during treatment and works differently for each individual. Unless you never stop shedding after 13 or 14 months, then you may want to possibly try something else but from the way it seems your responding, that wont happen. Remember the success story I posted from Dougie who was actually shedding clear into his 14 month and didn't start seeing good results until his 15th month, it sounds like you are responding very much the same way as he did but because he didn't give up, he now has a nice head of hair to show for it and has become a success story. Imagine if he got discouraged and gave up thinking that it wasn't working for him. Like he said, he probably would have had it not been for these forums. Remember also, that what you shed will all grow back UNLESS you STOP taking it, then everything you've shed up to this point during treatment will most likely NOT grow back (along with the rest of your hair that is effected by your pattern of male pattern baldness) so I think now would be the WORST time to stop taking it. It sounds like you're psyching yourself out of taking it and are automatically assuming the worst even though it seems like finasteride is actually working because you're shedding. It's very likely that the shedding will stop and those hair will grow back and in time, you should see some very positive results but you have to be patient and not give up.