Propecia After 5 years+ ?

[jambri]

According to the Merck/FDA trials, Propecia users will still be well above baseline after 5 years:

http://www.propecia.com/finasteride/pro ... /index.jsp

... and judging by the rate of hairloss at this time, will probably not recede/diffuse back to baseline level for around ten years.

Does this reflect user's experiences here? Or did you notice your hair actually reverting to baseline level or even worse before, say, a 5-year period?

 

[incubusor]

I don't think we have enough active members who are beyond the 5 year mark.

 

[Siberian]

Does this reflect user's experiences here? Or did you notice your hair actually reverting to baseline level or even worse before, say, a 5-year period?

It perfectly reflects my 5-year experience. After 5 years, I definately still had noticeably more hair then when I started Propecia. I'm guessing it did decline somewhat after year 2, but it's such a slow change I can't say I really noticed it if it did. Heck, there were times I swore I had MORE hair in years 4-5 than 1-2. I probably didn't, but the point is it was close enough that I was obviously still very pleased after 5 years.

 

[Solo]

Five years???


PERFECT, just in time for HM!

 

[techprof]

this will be true for everyone except those at NW1.3 or NW1.1 wanting to go back to NW1. NW1.5 to NW1 is not possible for most of you. Taking propecia can theoretically increse testestoron on your scalp. You could lose hairs because of that.

 

[Britannia]

this will be true for everyone except those at NW1.3 or NW1.1 wanting to go back to NW1. NW1.5 to NW1 is not possible for most of you. Taking propecia can theoretically increse testestoron on your scalp. You could lose hairs because of that.

:shock: And on that bombshell........

 

[Siberian]

this will be true for everyone except those at NW1.3 or NW1.1 wanting to go back to NW1. NW1.5 to NW1 is not possible for most of you. Taking propecia can theoretically increse testestoron on your scalp. You could lose hairs because of that.

Propecia does generally raise overall testosterone by 10% or so, apparently because less is being converted into DHT. But it's insignificant compared to it's lowering of DHT - which is all the follicles care about. I highly doubt anyone loses hair *because* of Propecia, though I'm sure a rare few lose hair in spite of it - though at a slower rate compared to not having used it at all.

 

[techprof]

siberian,
propecia website says that it is not for temples. Using propecial alone to get regrowth in temples (especially NW1.5 to NW1) is very difficult in my opinion.
I am not saying that propecia makes us bald (that is not the case). Propecia alone is not going to convert NW1.5 to NW1 for many receders.
People with NW1.5 to NW2 should use propecia to make sure they don't go bald (NW3 or more). However, going from NW1.5 to NW1 is very rare IMHO.

The point of this post was to say that just because propecia does not take you back from NW1.5 to NW1 it is not a bad drug or the studies are wrong or misleading. If you think about it, going back to NW1 means that propecia is a cure, which is only wishful thinking.
If propecia can take everyone from NW1.5 to NW1 in 6 months, theoreticaly it should take Norwood 6 or NW7 to NW1 at least in 10 years.

Dr. Proctor believes that some of the damages done by the hormones are irreversible. He is willing to correct his opinion, but is not proved yet. (www. drproctor.com). I am posting the following paragraph from his webpage.

Arguably, the most promising new antiandrogen is Propecia ( finasteride), from Merck. For more on this agent, go to propecia.com. Tho the weakest antiandrogen on paper, it seems to be as effective as the others in baldness treatment. My experience is that oral finasteride works about as well as topical spironolactone, about a 50% response rate, at one year. Some individuals take even longer to respond.

BTW, I have prime patents in this area ( for growth stimulators plus antiandrogens ). In fact, because of the publication of our patents, the combination of a hair growth stimulator plus and antiandrogen is now " obvious " and thus unpatentable. I sure wish antiandrogens worked better.
Possible explaination: Male hormones only initiate balding. Further, whatever hormones do seems to be mostly irreversible. The main damage to the hair follicle seems to be done by other factors, especially immunological. But I reserve the right to change my mind about this.

 

[camobear777]

Hey Siberian, I am now going into my 2nd year of treatment on Propecia. Only thing after one year went from a NW1 to a NW2.5 with more loss on my temples. What was your Norwood level prior to treatment and at the 5 year mark? Did things slowly start to get thin on top as well?

Cheers

 

[Siberian]

Using propecial alone to get regrowth in temples (especially NW1.5 to NW1) is very difficult in my opinion.

My balding is somewhat diffuse, but yes, that was my experience with it. Propecia filled in the temple areas that still had some hair (peach fuzz) with terminal hairs, but certainly didn't advance the entire hairline. Still, the "V" shaped temple balding areas filled in quite a bit - which was nice.

The general idea seems to be it'll fill in areas that still have some hair, but doesn't affect areas that have long been empty of any hair growth.

 

[Siberian]

Hey Siberian, I am now going into my 2nd year of treatment on Propecia. Only thing after one year went from a NW1 to a NW2.5 with more loss on my temples. What was your Norwood level prior to treatment and at the 5 year mark? Did things slowly start to get thin on top as well?

I have trouble with the Norwood scale. My hairline didn't exactly recede except a bit at the temples, nor do I have an anterior "bald spot." See http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... hp?t=24229. I do NOT look that bald in real life. I think flashes cause hair loss

Remember - I went OFF Propecia for 9 months. Where I am now is almost where I was 5 years ago before starting it. I'm on month 4.3726027397260273972602739726027 right now.

Lay a horsehoe on your head. Where it actually touches your scalp is where my worst balding is. It's also thinning within that ring to a lesser extent, but has a strong patch at the front/center hairline (which is what saves me cosmetically, as you don't see past that patch of hair normally).

Propecia uniformly filled in everything that was thinning, but didn't move my hairline forward. It didn't grow hair where there wasn't any in the first place. But thin areas became full, and peach-fuzz areas became thin hairs.

After 4-5 years, it looked the same to me as it did at 1 year.

 

[Peter2]

look at this: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/ab ... 05.07072.x

 

[Peter2]

The effect of finasteride and distribution of androgens on different parts of the scalp:

ORIGINAL ARTICLE
Evaluation of androgens in the scalp hair and plasma of patients with male-pattern baldness before and after finasteride administration
H.K. Ryu*†, K.M. Kim*, E.A. Yoo†, W.Y. Sim‡ and B.C. Chung*
Summary

Background Finasteride, a competitive inhibitor of the enzyme 5α-reductase II, is widely used as a medical treatment for patients with male-pattern baldness (male pattern baldness), which is affected by the distribution of androgenic steroids. It is also notable that the androgenic effect in male pattern baldness is different for each region of the head.

Objectives To study the effect of the drug finasteride, we quantified androgenic steroids in the vertex and occipital scalp hair and in the plasma of patients with male pattern baldness.

Methods The patients with male pattern baldness, aged 23–52 years, were treated with finasteride 1 mg daily for 5 months. The hair and plasma samples were hydrolysed, extracted with n-pentane, and derivatized with MSTFA : NH4I : DTE (1000 : 4 : 5, v/w/w). We analysed the concentrations of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and testosterone (T) in the hair and plasma using gas chromatography–mass spectrometry (GC-MS).

Results In the hair, the ratio of DHT/T was decreased in the vertex scalp hair after the individual received finasteride (P < 0·005). However, we found no significant difference in the ratio of DHT/T in the occipital scalp hair before and after individuals received finasteride. Like the results in the vertex scalp hair, the ratio of DHT/T in the plasma was remarkably decreased after finasteride administration (P < 0·001).

Conclusions This study supports the effect of finasteride in patients with male pattern baldness by examining the decreased level of DHT/T in scalp hair and in plasma. Thus, in view of the androgenic effect in the different hair regions, the vertex scalp hair plays a more important role for patients with male pattern baldness treated with finasteride than does the occipital hair.

It has long been assumed with male-pattern baldness (male pattern baldness) that the terminal hair follicle is miniaturized and then miniaturized hair follicles produce shorter and thinner hair.1 male pattern baldness is inheritable and strongly androgenic dependent.2 Among the androgen hormones, dihydrotestosterone (DHT) plays a definite role in male pattern baldness.3 Namely, DHT is converted from testosterone (T) by 5α-reductase in most target organs. The enzyme 5α-reductase has been identified as being of two types in humans. 5α-reductase type I is the predominant enzyme in the skin and liver, whereas type II exists in hair follicles, in the prostate and the liver,4,5 and affects male pattern baldness. Generally, DHT competes with T to bind with the androgen receptor, and the affinity of DHT is fivefold more potent than T.6,7 Finasteride is one of the most commonly used drugs for treating male pattern baldness.8 As a competitive inhibitor of the enzyme 5α-reductase II,8,9 finasteride lacks an affinity for the androgen receptor9 and decreases the DHT level in scalp skin and in serum.10,11 In previous studies of the effects of finasteride, the amount and percentage of anagen (the growth phase) hair increased in the male pattern baldness group treated with finasteride.12 In addition, finasteride significantly affected the individuals who received the treatment. Finasteride increased hair weight, increased follicle length10 in Macaque monkeys and hair count,4,13 and increased hair growth in humans.14 It is also notable that the individual regions of the hair have different properties. The outer root sheaths of the frontal hair follicles have higher levels of androgen receptors than do the occipital follicles. By comparing the frontal hair follicles with the occipital hair follicles in male pattern baldness, we found that the level of 5α-reductase II is increased nearly three times in the frontal hair follicles.15 In addition, the distribution of androgenic steroids is different in the various regions of the hair of individual subjects. Generally, male pattern baldness is affected by the distribution of androgenic steroids in the vertex scalp hair.16 Based on our previous report, we supposed that the effect of finasteride is different between vertex and occipital scalp hair. In 2004, our laboratory studied the levels of DHT, T and epitestosterone in the hair and plasma of individuals with premature male pattern baldness and in the control group.16

 

[Siberian]

Could someone summarize that into easily-digestable conclusions for logic-challenged people such as myself?

 

[Anderz]

It suggests that finasteride will help better on top of your head than on the back.

 

[Siberian]

It suggests that finasteride will help better on top of your head than on the back.

Thank you