Propecia - Some questions

[jd_uk]

I've always been against the idea of using an oral medication for something as superficial as hair loss. Now though, as my self esteem deteriorates I am beginning to consider it for the first time.

I have quite a few concerns about it though (Mainly relating to side effects):

1) I am an athlete and like to keep in shape/regularly go to the gym/play sports etc. How likely is it that propecia could affect hormone levels (testosterone etc) and therefore reduce my athletic ability/make it harder to stay in shape. If it is likely then unfortunaetly themedication for me is outof the question.

2) Also how likely is it that I will experience changes to my sex drive? Again this is not something I want to mess around with?

3) I've heard some stories about people getting gynocamastia (sp?) and reduced sex drive so am concerned. Is the onyl way to really reduce hair loss (apart from a transplant) to use medicaqtion which affects your sex hormones?

4) Then...how successful is it likely to be? I have frontal/temple balding and i know it's only going to get worse now. Minoxidil hasn't done much (that i can tell). Can it bring lost hair back? If i start taking propecia is it very likely that I will keep all the hair I now have? I am 27 now and if i gro my hair longer then i won't look to bald but soon will be reaching 'the point of no return' if not treated.

5)Has anyone in the UK used it? Did your GP look at you like you were crazy upon suggesting that he prescribe it?

6) Lastly there is cost. How much per month roughly?

Thanks very much in advance! Watching my hair fade is like torture right now especially as I'm newly single etc.

 

[Jstalkens]

Almost anything you take orally is going to have some sort of side effects, especially fina. It seems that is has many sexual side effects, being that it has a steroid like structure, it may be possible that small amounts of it in the bloodstream can be converted estrogen, giving you that gyno effect. Couldn't hurt to try it, and just discontinue if you experience it. If you get gyno, there are anti-estrogens you can use to help with that such as Letrozole.

 

[jd_uk]

Well thanks for the replies guys. I'll be honest though, they arent filling me with confidence. ive read that only one per cent of guys get decreased libido but surely if it is common and a probability to get decreased morning erections and ball ache then it is also a probability to experience a lower libido?

ive just read some reviews on the druglib website and there are far more posts with negqtive side effects than none at all. what is scary is how quite a few said irreversible damage had been done. i dont know...i really really want to stop my hair loss but my hormones and sex drive are what make me a man and im afraid to mess with that.

also does anyone even know of the long term risks?

 

[freakout]

Have you tried topicals like minoxidil and nizoral?

 

[jd_uk]

yes freakout. i have.

 

[freakout]

What do you do besides being an athlete? What type of sports?

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Well thanks for the replies guys. I'll be honest though, they arent filling me with confidence. ive read that only one per cent of guys get decreased libido but surely if it is common and a probability to get decreased morning erections and ball ache then it is also a probability to experience a lower libido?

ive just read some reviews on the druglib website and there are far more posts with negqtive side effects than none at all. what is scary is how quite a few said irreversible damage had been done. i dont know...i really really want to stop my hair loss but my hormones and sex drive are what make me a man and im afraid to mess with that.

also does anyone even know of the long term risks?

People only complain about finasteride. The total number of people complaining is actually pretty small. Most people who do get side effects are pretty minor, and quitting takes them back to normal either a few days or a week or two after stopping it.

Only a few people really have major problems with it, and sometimes they're either crazy or might have other problems tht they're blaming on the finasteride.

I'd say take it. If you don't have any sides, it's the best thing to combat hairloss.

 

[Wuffer]

I've been on finasteride for about 10 weeks now, and i've had a few minor sides; testicle ache for a few days when I started, and lately some fatigue that I am not entirely certain is related to finasteride. No problems with my sex drive, and if anything, since i've been working out lately it has been even better!

Yes, there are a small number of individuals that experience sexual sides, and a very small fraction of those experience persistent sides after quitting. I've personally never seen conclusive proof that finasteride causes persistent sides, but a number of people on this forum claim it and I won't discount that it can happen.

I beleive people who are overweight, take drugs like antidepressants, have pre-existing anxiety/depression, or abuse recreational drugs or alcohol, are at much higher risk of developing sides.

I beleive in Merck's trials that state less than 2% of normal, healthy adults have sexual sides. The problem with the general population taking it is that you now have removed the placebo control from the population, which increases the psychosomatic sides that people experience. Throw into the mix a bunch of people that meet the unhealthy criteria I listed above, then you have a higher incidence of sides yet again.

Since you keep in shape and work out regularly, you are at low risk for developing sides. Working out with weights and performing regular cardio is proven to regulate hormones

Anyway, if you get any sides, quit the drug and they will go away. Don't let fear stop you from taking this stuff, because there is a great chance that it will do wonders for your hair. I've been on for 2 months, but the scalp itch is completely gone, and i've noticed a huge decrease in the amount of shedding. I would also swear that density is way better now. When I style my hair with Axe gel, it's not even possible to see that i'm balding unless you look closely at the top of my head.

Also, propecia will not affect your performance in the gym in any way. It apparently raises your testosterone by a certain percentage (I seem to recall 7%) because less DHT is being converted, so if anything, you would see better gains. I've been hitting the gym ever since I started on finasteride, and haven't noticed any problems.. I've probably put on close to 10 pounds of muscle, because I can lift almost twice what I could when i started and i've lost a huge amount of fat.

 

[Orion]

I bought finasteride the other day and still haven't taken it.. but plan on starting within a few days for sure.

If you look at table 2 on this website: http://www.drugs.com/sfx/propecia-side-effects.html , you'll notice a few things:
a) that the incidence of side effects, especially sexual, is VERY similar, and after year 1 on the drug, exactly the same for the drug itself and the placebo.. which makes me think that mental and natural processes play a role as well, which have nothing to do with finasteride.
b) keep in mind that the sample is composed of men aged 45-78, hence the higher numbers of sexual side effects.
c) also keep in mind that this is for proscar - finasteride 5 mg. If you're going to use Proscar (which is much cheaper), the recommended dose is 1/4 of a pill, meaning 1.25 mg. Lower dosage I would presume would mean a lower chance of side effects.

It just makes me that much more comfortable starting the drug... and people who experience great success with the drug and very little or no side effects are very unlikely to be posting here, and tons of people use finasteride.. so really, although we see a lot of posts online critiquing this drug, it isn't a fair sample.


Edit: on that link, there's also a study done for propecia, for year 1 of use, which I missed... Table A. Pretty consistent with the less than 2% that Merck claims.. don't forget to look at the placebo group.

 

[jd_uk]

What do you do besides being an athlete? What type of sports?

I do quite a few sports but generally just like to keep fit. Cricket and boxing (sparring not competitive) are my favourite at the moment. Why do you ask?

I've seen you also post about people who have stressful jobs/sit in front of a computer a lot and hairloss. Can you give me more info on this? My work is very IT based but I'll be honest I'm very sceptical about this relating to hair loss.

I've always had very thin hair...I remember in school friends saying I still had 'baby hair' as it was so soft, which at the time didn't bother me at all because I wasn't receding at all but now that I am it shows so much more due to my hair already being thin. Especially in natural light.

I think as someone who has always been so health conscious, messing with bodies natural hormones goes against all my principles. Particularly for something which is superficial. It has (in combination with other stress) began to affect my mental health quite seriously though which is why I'm considering it.

DHT is the most potent sex hormone so I've read. Taking Propecia to reduce it by 65% must SURELY lower sex drive???

Another thing...how can anyone trust the manufacturers rates of risk? It is surely in their interests to make the drug sound safe.

Reading this is what has scared me most:

http://www.druglib.com/ratingsreviews/propecia/

 

[mcxcz]

My finasteride arrived this morning and I didn't hesitate to split a pill and pop it straight away.I too am an avid fitness guy.I go to the gym and lift weights 4 days a week.I think if you dwell on the side effects too much it will eventually wear you down.The thing here is to have a positive frame of mind about this!You researched it and looked for a treatment because you don't want to go bald,same with me.Just do it and get on with your life as normal,embrace it so to speak.

 

[jd_uk]

bumping for any other replies

 

[cristi2011]

Sides are exagerated. I'm on propecia for 3 months, and yes, at the beggining i had little problems, such as less desire for sex(but no erection problems, etc),
but they completely solved out after 3 months.
That DHT is only important when you're a teenager, for developing sexual characteristics, but then, it is only a pain in the ***: it cand lead to hairloss, prostate problems when you're old.
It is probably a joke nature played on us, because it helps the hair to grow on your arms, chest, etc, but it makes the hair on your head fall!!
As with the sexual side, actually, less DHT means more testosterone, so no problem at all.
The ones who say that propecia made them impotent are crazy, it is not because of propecia. It is other problem, maybe even at the psychological level(many people who are not on propecia suffer from impotence problems, but these ones found something to blame).
So go on it.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Some of those studies are irrelevant to finasteride use. There is no use trying to scare people by saying that people who already have neurological diseases are only made worse by lowering androgens. They aren't healthy in the first place.

 

[jd_uk]

bump again to see if my other questions could be answered. Thanks

 

[Wuffer]

What are all your questions?

I can take a stab at this one:

DHT is the most potent sex hormone so I've read. Taking Propecia to reduce it by 65% must SURELY lower sex drive???

DHT is required for development of male sex organs in the fetus, as well as during sexual maturity (puberty). This is why pregnant women need to stay away from it, and why you must be over 18 before starting on it.

Don't confuse sexual function from sexual development and maturity. DHT may play a role, but testosterone is responsible for sexual functions including libido and erection. This is the rule...

... but there are always exceptions to the rule. There are obviously a minority of people that have big problems on Finasteride. Whether this is due to DHT inhibition itself, a raise in estrogen (or both) or another farther reaching effect of DHT inhibition is a matter of great debate. People have some pretty good theories, but in the end, nobody actually knows for certain why finasteride causes sexual sides.

I am willing to suspect that DHT inhibition is a big part of it. The 30% remaining DHT is enough to keep 98% of guys working normally downstairs, but I would expect many more problems if finasteride blocked 100% of DHT.

We can debate about this all day long, but in reality, only a small percentage of guys have any sexual problems on finasteride. The only thing I can almost guarantee is a mean testicle ache for a few days after starting it!

 

[sirigaita]

Jd_Uk

I had the same questions few months ago.

My opinion:

TRY IT !


I've started on 1mg and now am just getting o.5 and see no diffrence. It is working very well.

The only bad (really bad) thing is that Im not having morning erections like before I start the treatment (but still have it!).

Im taking it always when I wake up. What time are you taking it guys? And is there any proven effectiveness of the drug taken on different times of the day?

 

[sirigaita]

Another curiosity:

Many people talk about balls ache , i didnt have problems yet.

What about your breast? Is there anybody noticing boobs growing?? Is there any study on this?

 

[sirigaita]

Did you notice any grow finfighter??
I would hate it.

Lets go to gym guys.

 

[Wuffer]

Changing the time of day doesn't change anything; it's a flat dose response for at least 24 hours.

Loss of morning erections isn't exactly normal, but it is commonly reported. I had a decrease in frequency of those for the first while, but for the last couple weeks they have been back to pretty much normal. I find that when I have a really good sleep I get them next morning guaranteed. Who knows.

The testicle ache usually comes within the first month. You will know when you've got it.. I had it for 3 days straight, then it went away again, never to return.

At first when 1mg Finasteride was FDA approved, no studies showed any increase in Gynecomastia versus placebo. After that, a few studies and a doctor reports came into light with patients experiencing this symptom.

At 1mg in a young guy, it's very rare to get 'true' gyno, which is a firm tender lump growing under your nipple. If you get this, you need to stop finasteride and see your doctor.

However, a number of guys report an increase of fat build-up in their breasts that doesn't contain a gland - pseudogynecomastia. I'm honestly not sure if this could be caused by finasteride, since any guy that gains enough weight will get it eventually. But the increase in estrogen that finasteride can cause may do this; especially if you are actively gaining fat while on on it.

Moral of the story: Keep healthy and in shape, you shouldn't have any problems like this. From the descriptions i've heard, when you get 'true' gyno, there is no mistaking it due to the pain involved.