propecia - the bigger picture

[Bob_Marley]

I think that it may be at least partly due to general degenerative effects (ageing?), and not a "failure" of the Propecia per se.

It really isn't a question of failure or success with propecia. It's not a hairloss pill. It's purpose is to reduce DHT. It DOES THAT.

I just can't buy any theory about a sudden "shock" to the system that allows for a TEMPORARY spurt of regrowth. I think that the remaining 33% would be causing problems from Day 1, not just a year down the road.

The 33% DOES cause problems from day 1. That's part of my point. Why do you think that propecia does not work for some. Because obviously a guy with 67% of his DHT eliminated still is very sensitive to that 33%. Tell me Bryan. Why would it be different for anybody else, even for someone that intially has good results.

Yout theory only holds merit if propecia worked the same for every one, or if DHT levels differed drastically between an average to severe male pattern baldness sufferer, which has not been proven.

 

[Guest]

I suppose that "maintenance" is a relative term: if you experience only a very small drop in haircounts compared to normally balding guys, that's close enough to what could reasonably be called "maintenance"! But the precise CAUSE of that slow drop is what interests me. I think that it may be at least partly due to general degenerative effects (ageing?), and not a "failure" of the Propecia per se.

Bryan

I would think that we have at least two issues explaining the "long slow decline"

One is general aging of the hair/skin cells, which we all face. To the degree that an individual is aging rapidly due to many factors, their hair/skin cells are impacted similarly. It is pretty clear that even men without classic male pattern baldness experience general thinning of the hair later in life. Paul Newman comes to mind.

The second is that no one treatment is perfect (obvious). That is why I like the multi-modal approach to treatment, since it maximizes the probablility that the entire male pattern baldness cycle of destruction is interruped at some point.

Make sense?

 

[Kramer3]

Bruce: If failure for medication to maintain can be partially attributed to the degenerative affects of aging then would someone who began balding at a young age (18) be more likely to experience maintence. If your theory is in part age-related then wouldn't technically someone like me able to sustain their results better then someone who began treatments at an older age. If the ability of proscar to reduce DHT level's is constant and isn't the variable which causes a person to gradually lose what he was maintaing then why wouldn't I be able to maintain to the degenerative affects kick in much later on in life? Particularly if I'm attacking it from all different tangents.

 

[Bryan]

I just can't buy any theory about a sudden "shock" to the system that allows for a TEMPORARY spurt of regrowth. I think that the remaining 33% would be causing problems from Day 1, not just a year down the road.

The 33% DOES cause problems from day 1. That's part of my point.

How much of a problem could it be, if there's a sudden spurt of growth at the beginning? :lol:

Why do you think that propecia does not work for some. Because obviously a guy with 67% of his DHT eliminated still is very sensitive to that 33%. Tell me Bryan. Why would it be different for anybody else, even for someone that intially has good results.

I'm not sure why Propecia doesn't work for some. But the issue of why it causes a marked spurt of regrowth in the beginning, followed by slowly declining results only a year later is STILL a major puzzle, IMHO (well, I have my own theory, as you know).

Bryan

 

[Bob_Marley]

Bryan,

Lets just leave it at the fact that I accept your theory, although it is extremely general, and is of course common knowledge. All of our body suffers as we get old.

You can't prove my theory wrong, because you don't know the mechanics of male pattern baldness.

You keep going back to haircounts and using "regrowth", which again is very subjective and not clearly defined. If they counted vellus at the begginning(which are not cosmetically hair), then they had to have counted them at each interval as improvement.

 

[Guest]

then why wouldn't I be able to maintain to the degenerative affects kick in much later on in life? Particularly if I'm attacking it from all different tangents.

I believe the earlier one starts and the more effective the treatment plan, the later hair loss will occur.

This goes for general anti aging therapies as well, such as vitamins etc.

 

[Rubber Baby Buggy]

I doubt many of you will make it to 8 years, let alone 4.

 

[Jack_the_Lad]

I doubt many of you will make it to 8 years, let alone 4.

8 years of what??

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

Lets just leave it at the fact that I accept your theory, although it is extremely general, and is of course common knowledge. All of our body suffers as we get old.

You can't prove my theory wrong, because you don't know the mechanics of male pattern baldness.

I don't know what you mean when you say that my theory is "extremely general". I'm making a VERY PRECISE and specific claim, which is that haircounts very slowly decline in time, even in normal men who wouldn't be considered to have male pattern baldness!

What's annoying to me is that my theory is highly TESTABLE, but I don't think it's ever been done: all you have to do is conduct the same kind of very precise haircounts on normal, non-balding men that they did in the huge Propecia trial!

You keep going back to haircounts and using "regrowth", which again is very subjective and not clearly defined. If they counted vellus at the begginning(which are not cosmetically hair), then they had to have counted them at each interval as improvement.

Yes, but what's your point? We're still judging by the same yardstick (countable hairs), regardless of their cosmetic value. And the conundrum remains: what explains the sudden spurt of growth at the start (cosmetic or not), followed by a decline a short time later (cosmetic or not)? I'm claiming that I know at least part of the answer...

Bryan

 

[Bob_Marley]

Yeah, and I claim to know another part of the answer.

 

[matt_1_]

Been on it for about 3 1/2 years now, my hair looks about the same, although my hairline still seem to be receding (but much slowly)...i'll probably try minoxidil...

 

[Guest]

Been on it for about 3 1/2 years now, my hair looks about the same, although my hairline still seem to be receding (but much slowly)...i'll probably try minoxidil...

Matt,
Have you experienced periodic sheds?

 

[matt_1_]

Not really, although i'm a lucky bastard with really thick hair...so sometimes it's hard to tell, but I know a bit about folliculs cycle and the way your hair changes can sometimes make u feel like your having periodic shed...are u on propecia too ? (maybe u posted earlier that u were, but I'm at work I don't really have the time to check all the posts)

 

[htownballa]

Good thread btw Bryan and Bob Marley...thought i would resurrect it

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