prostaglandin study from pubmed

[michael barry]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract


might be useful as a growth stimulant. Ive got two bottles of latanaprost and am putting a dab each day on a part of my forearm.


I have been putting pine oil (rich in beta sis) on the back of one of my hands since mid-Sept. There is definetly less hair growth on the back of my right hand now. Its especially noticable when the hands are wet and held side by side for comparison.

 

[CCS]

yeah, minoxidil works on all hairs, and androgens only help body hairs. So just because something inhibits growth on arm hair does not mean it will grow head hair. Interesting you are hoping it will work as an androgen receptor blocker. I thought it was going to work like good estrogen, and counter the effects of androgens. Does estrogen prevent body hair from growning?

 

[michael barry]

CCS,

Progesterone, an estrogen, is used for male hairloss (and female) because it pre-emtively BINDS with androgen receptors, thus inhibiting androgens like DHT from doing so. Beta sitosterol gets recognized by many body tissues as an estrogen. Its a fat, and should be much more chemically stable than progesterone which breaks down in a little over two hours if memory serves.

Things that hormonally inhibit body hair growh should help head hair by protecting it from androgenic transcription. Im not looking at beta-sis as a growth stimulant (its not and wouldn't be----even castrates dont regrow a great deal of hair), but as something to add to finasteride that will keep both T and DHT away from the DP cells as much as possible.

This experiment, by proving fruitful, is showing me that we can cut androgenic transcription EVEN more with topical beta sis without injesting large amounts of beta sis like alchoholics (if they are whiskey drunks do).


Did you know that whiskey drunks often have breast enlargement, no libido, almost no body hair, and even sparse pubic hair? What else could do that other than receptor blockage? Nothing could short of castration. Even dutasteride does not see that happen. Chronic drunks only make about half normal levels of testosterone, but even post menapausal women get hair on their arms and still have to shave their legs. Do you now see why Im interested in the anti-androgenic possibilities of this one particular fat? Hell, Im not even using propylene glycol as a carrier either. Most of it probably stays up on top of the hand (which is a terrible place to test anything.....................I forgot how many times a day I have to wash my hands, sweat, etc.), and yet Im still getting a good effect in less than two months. I imagine five or six months on a forearm would produce a wonderful anti-androgenic result.


ON your minoxidil observation......YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I imagine using beta sis mixed with a carrier base and then putting on minoxidil would have a wonderful result on head hair. The great news is that beta sis is quite cheap too. One could buy the tablets, mix with an alcohol, propylene glycol, distilled water solution in a great quantity (think half gallon) and just use minoxidil and nizoral. Inexpensive.......................could tide many young men in high school and college over until cloning. I dont think treating baldness should be for men with a hundred bucks a month to blow exclusively. Im enthused about this...............................By the way, there is beta sis and barley malt in good ol'Jack daniels. Ive even considered just draining one or two capsules in a sixty ml bottle of Jack and testing it on a patch of body hair.

CCS, body hair, what most of us balding men have, is an EXCELLENT testing resource. You can test stimulants and anti-androgens for effect upon it. Its HUMAN hair, and more importantly YOUR OWN human hair. Id trust a RU58841 study that inhibited chest or beard hair growth much more than what it did with a mouse wouldn't you?

 

[docj077]

CCS,

Progesterone, an estrogen, is used for male hairloss (and female) because it pre-emtively BINDS with androgen receptors, thus inhibiting androgens like DHT from doing so. Beta sitosterol gets recognized by many body tissues as an estrogen. Its a fat, and should be much more chemically stable than progesterone which breaks down in a little over two hours if memory serves.

Progesterone is not an estrogen. It exists as a metabolite and is synthesized from pregnenolone. Estrogens are created by enzymatic reactions involving androgens like testosterone. They exist along completely different metabolic paths in the overal steroid synthesis pathway and in fact progesterone causes an increase in estrogen receptors in susceptible tissues.

Things that hormonally inhibit body hair growh should help head hair by protecting it from androgenic transcription. Im not looking at beta-sis as a growth stimulant (its not and wouldn't be----even castrates dont regrow a great deal of hair), but as something to add to finasteride that will keep both T and DHT away from the DP cells as much as possible.



This experiment, by proving fruitful, is showing me that we can cut androgenic transcription EVEN more with topical beta sis without injesting large amounts of beta sis like alchoholics (if they are whiskey drunks do).


Did you know that whiskey drunks often have breast enlargement, no libido, almost no body hair, and even sparse pubic hair? What else could do that other than receptor blockage? Nothing could short of castration. Even dutasteride does not see that happen. Chronic drunks only make about half normal levels of testosterone, but even post menapausal women get hair on their arms and still have to shave their legs. Do you now see why Im interested in the anti-androgenic possibilities of this one particular fat? Hell, Im not even using propylene glycol as a carrier either. Most of it probably stays up on top of the hand (which is a terrible place to test anything.....................I forgot how many times a day I have to wash my hands, sweat, etc.), and yet Im still getting a good effect in less than two months. I imagine five or six months on a forearm would produce a wonderful anti-androgenic result.

Alcoholics have increased amounts of estrogen in their blood, because liver necrosis prevents the breakdown of estrogens. That's why they get gynocomastia and that's why they seem to get inhibition of androgen action. Not only that, but alcoholism prevents the creation of numerous compounds that are normally made by the liver and can decrease the bioavailability of compounds like albumin and other proteins. Estrogens also increase the circulating amount of sex hormone binding globulin, which will bind androgens/estrognes and prevent them from acting on tissues. However, SHBG is produced by the liver, which means there will be more circulating estrogens in alcoholics with liver disease.


CCS, body hair, what most of us balding men have, is an EXCELLENT testing resource. You can test stimulants and anti-androgens for effect upon it. Its HUMAN hair, and more importantly YOUR OWN human hair. Id trust a RU58841 study that inhibited chest or beard hair growth much more than what it did with a mouse wouldn't you?

You have to be careful here. Body hair growth in the areas that exhibit secondary sexual characteristics can be governed by androgens. Hair on your hand, however, is not necessarily growth stimulated by androgens. If it is, I'd like to see the study that proves it.

 

[michael barry]

Docj077 wrote: "You have to be careful here. Body hair growth in the areas that exhibit secondary sexual characteristics can be governed by androgens. Hair on your hand, however, is not necessarily growth stimulated by androgens. If it is, I'd like to see the study that proves it."

Docj077...................I'll prove it for you. With your own eyes. Look at post-menaupausal women in thier fifties. Look at their forearms. What do you see? You see HAIR. Women in their later fifties get hair on the arms a even a tad of it on their hands. As I said in my post............back of the hand is an awful place to test an anti-androgen. This is why Im TESTING it. So far, so good. There is LESS hair on the back of one hand. Its definitely shorter. Im going to start putting it on the chin also. WE KNOW THAT hair is androgen driven withough doubt.

You are quite right though.......................lot of hormonal variables with estrogens. Im looking at beta sis to occupy a receptor as a competing estrogen "in disguise". Thats my interest. If it fails, it fails..............but it hasn't so far and has exceeded my expectations.

If you'd like to test it on yourself...............buy some and put it on one side of your face for two months and let your beard grow for about a week and see which half is hairier. I think the results would suprise you. The beta sis capsules I have reveal a milky, thick fluid. It would be easy to get a shitload of this and just add it to your shampoo every day in my opion. A glob of beta sis in one hand, shampoo in the other. Mix and shampoo, leave in for two-three minutes, rinse. If the shampoo had "active ingredients" that it wanted to get past the dermis with carriers like proplyene glycol and alchohol, I'd imagine you'd get alot of beta sis in your scalp this way also. Or simply make your own beta sis topical (Bourbon has barley malt and beta sis............might not even have to add much beta sis or proplyene glycol to that).


Docj-77, waiting on tests can be frustrating in the area of hairloss. Im sure Bryan could tell you all about that. You'd think that there would be some institute that would test about everything known to man in vivo on various ape species for one year periods for hair. The top ten or twenty topical anti-androgens. The top ten or twenty stimulants. Publish the results. Within a year, we'd have the results from our closest living relatives of many treatments, pictures, and what to expect. It all seems so straightforward. But there is no such entity and everyone doing testing is doing so to verify a product that they sell. Im not selling anything, Im just interested in what will help one hang onto his hair before cloning finally gets here (probably about five more years).


BTW, the latanaprost intensfying DNA synthesis was very interesting no? Im putting it on my forearm to see if it stimulates hairs. Im currently taking curcumin extract as per your idea also.

 

[mjd50]

This is completly stupid but I know people can make a shampoo out of beer. Could something similiar be made from whisky?
Sorry, losing my hair is making me desperate AND stupid.

 

[docj077]

I found what I was looking for, Michael Barry.

Androgens regulate the growth of body hair in not only the pubic regions and axillae in men and women, but they also regulate the growth of hair on the chest, the face, the legs, and the forearms in men and on the forearms and legs in women. It's termed androgenic hair.

It gets worse in women as they age, because menopause increases the influence of androgens in the body and androgens are pretty much the only thing the ovaries kick out at that point.

 

[michael barry]

Docj077,

Here are pictures of a man who surgically moved 3100 body hairs to his scalp hairline at 12 months http://www.forhair.com/hairtransplant/about942.html


Now, here he is at 20 months (incredible results) http://www.forhair.com/hairtransplant/about982.html


He TAKES finasteride. That was spelled out at the hairsite forum, yet the body hair still grows very robustly on just the other male hormones alone. I find that very interesting.



On androgenic hair in post menopausal women. At the post office today (where I was picking up my latanaprost) the post menopausal postal worker who served me had a bald spot in the vertex, a strong hairline, and some unnervingly hairy arms. Her hairy arms were curly haired too, making it even more..............well, repulsive. She had more hair on her arm than a teenage boy has. Very unfeminine. Sweet lady though. Just think, thats with very little amounts of male hormone. As I bought soap today I was thinking about her and an article posted on the drudgereport about declining testosterone levels in men. I looked at the back of the bodywashes to see the ingredients in them. Tons of them have lavendar, rosemary, soy, etc. All anti-androgenic substances. Makes ya' wonder if this is having some sort of hormonal effect doesnt it?




mjd50....................the big 3 of propecia, minoxidil, and nizoral shampoo every other day (dont use it every day, its literally bad for your hair to do so) is the best regimine we have at the moment thats utterly proven to work. Beer and eggs shampoo has been around forever. Barley is in beer, and barley has been shown to somehow negate the effects of TGF-beta 1, probably the worst antigen (anti-growth factor) thats released by the dermal papilla in male pattern baldness-hairs. This is probably why it works. The type of proanthocyanidin thats in barley is called B-3. There is an expensive product called applepoly that has green apple peel, barley and grape seed extract proanthcyandins. Its not been formally tested on human beings, but in animal models its outperformed minoxidil. Someone could literally pretty much make up a home concoction of something like this by cutting up several green apples, lots of grape seeds, and liquid barley extract and heating to a slow boil for a few hours. Whats at the bottom should have the essentials. It might be a good addition to the "big 3". But I definitely would start with the Big three If I were you and go from there. Curcumin extract might accomplish what barley does topically if used internally. Thats been Doctor's idea. Im using it (lotta benefits from curcumin extract besides hair). The main growth inhibitors secreted by the dermal papilla to the rest of the follicle in male pattern baldness-hairs after androgenic transcription (DHT binding) seem to be TNF alpha, Protien Kinease C, and TGF-beta 1. There may be more, but we KNOW these three are. The papilla's release these negative growth factors to the rest of the follicle. The epilitheal cells, keratinocytes, outer root sheath, inner root sheath, melanocytes, etc. Something about "one" of them probably induces the immune system to see the follicle as a foriegn body and attack it. We think (via Doctor's reseach) that it may be TGF-beta one. Ive noted that alot of the old "essential oils" and middle-age remedies for baldness like apple cider vinegar, grape pulp (native americans), beer and eggs shampoo, hops, resemary and lavendar, chamomile, thyme, all seem to work in little ways to alleviate certain parts of the male pattern baldness process. Its interesting to speculate. But propecia, by cutting the hormone most responsible for hairloss along with nizoral (ketoconazale-shampoo-that appears to inhibit anrogen receptors) are the two things that should work the best in the long term. Other things that might help are prox-n, revivogen, spironolactone, tricomin (much like prox-n). We are pretty much guessing on other stuff..............doing a little testing on ourselves, etc. I know it sucks, but I really think cloning will be here in about five more years...............so if you can hang on that long bro', you outta be alright. Hope this helps, best of luck.

 

[mjd50]

Thanks a lot for the info. Although I know little to nothing about science I enjoy the fact that we on these forums) are at least tying to understand this ourselves. I did try finasteride/nizoral for about a year and a half but it didn't help me maintain. Things just kept getting worse. I am a diffuse thinner. At this point I'm not taking anything. I may try to come up with some "alternative" regimine but it so depressing knowing that nothing is really going to work well. Anyway, thanks again.

 

[CCS]

I know this is off the topic of androgen effects, but I just wanted to point out that the donor site was photographed from much futher way 12 month later than immediately post op, and I think the distance difference is to hide donor scaring that is visible at the distance of the post op pics.