Proxiphen-N and Proxiphen Questions !?

[CCS]

minoxidil does not stop working after several years. male pattern baldness progresses by the genetic clock over the years to the point that not even mixoxidil can stop it. anyone avoiding minoxidil because they are worried about getting dependent on it really need to read my posts and educate themselves. If anything, I think that letting hair thin causes it to become sensitive to DHT and other processes sooner than it would if it were protected the whole time. When people come off finasteride after 28 days, their DHT levels do NOT even for a day climb higher than baseline. They return to normal. In the 5 year propecia trial, when part of the propecia group was switched to placebo, they lost hair faster than the placebo in any other part of the study, but they did not fall down below the placebo group or even reach the placebo group. I think that had they not been switched back to propecia, they would have reached the placebo group or stayed just slightly above them for a year or so. Notice that when they were put back on propecia, they climbed back up and reached almost exactly the same level (minus maybe 5 hairs) as the group that was always on propecia. This means that in a year, the protected follicles continued to become more sensitive with their counterparts in non-protected people, and the rate at which hair was lost is proportional to the difference in sensitivity and actually DHT levels. The 5 hairs lost are the amount that are perhaps permenantly lost, though from the slope of the graph it looks like they will intersect. Most importantly, notice that the group that started early and missed a year had significantly more hair in the end than the group that started a year late and then stayed on propecia the remaining 4 years.

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/430/2006 ... _chart.gif

 

[CCS]

bryan,

i have a question about prox-N:

I'm applying 10 drops once per day to the front half of my head, and two drops on the mid back. Would I be wasting it if I apply some to the area 1 inch back from the very front, where my scalp has been hairless except for a few dozen small vellus hairs for 3 years? I'd be happy if I can even grow a bunch of half inch vellus hairs just to hide my scalp more and not make my grafts look so stand alone.

My other question is, with 10 drops I pretty much have to place them an inch apart, though they do roll a bit before drying. Will they diffuse under the scalp and get the dry areas I never touch on the surface?

Thanks.

 

[Bryan]

Well, in general, I think that Prox-N is a better product to use than minoxidil. Nevertheless, you _may_ have a little minoxidil-dependent hair which you might lose if you discontinue it. Just keep that in mind.

Bryan

So how should I convert it to Prox-N, should I continue using minoxidil with Prox-N and slowly discontinue the use of minoxidil?

Why don't you use both, and get the benefits of both? If for some reason you want to discontinue the minoxidil, it's probably a good idea to taper-off slowly.

What you're saying is that it doesn't matter what I use, the hairs I regrew with minoxidil will fall off like I never used anything as soon as minoxidil stops working for me...

Once again, the issue pops-up about how minoxidil supposedly "stops working". That can be taken two different ways. In the way that _I_ mean it, minoxidil doesn't stop working. Or at least, I don't know of any solid evidence that it does.

...or if I stop using it for another product?

All of this is rather speculative. There _may_ be some overlap with another product like Prox-N, or maybe not. It's a crap-shoot, really.

Even if I use some kind of anti DHT product like spironolactone or propecia? Are those hairs doomed either way? :shock:

It's been well-established that Propecia alone won't necessarily maintain hair regrown with minoxidil. It's been well-established through personal anecdotes, and even a case study that was published in a medical journal. If you're interested in reading it, I'll post a scan of that study. I don't have the link right at hand at the moment, but I can get it if you want it.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

bryan,

i have a question about prox-N:

I'm applying 10 drops once per day to the front half of my head, and two drops on the mid back. Would I be wasting it if I apply some to the area 1 inch back from the very front, where my scalp has been hairless except for a few dozen small vellus hairs for 3 years? I'd be happy if I can even grow a bunch of half inch vellus hairs just to hide my scalp more and not make my grafts look so stand alone.

Sure, I think it's reasonable to "invest" a little near the front, for that specific purpose.

My other question is, with 10 drops I pretty much have to place them an inch apart, though they do roll a bit before drying. Will they diffuse under the scalp and get the dry areas I never touch on the surface?

For many years, Dr. Proctor has said on alt.baldspot that the effects of such hairloss treatments spread-out or "diffuse" a little, and that's based on his extensive experience. He even admitted once that he doesn't entirely understand all the reasons for that, himself. But he seems adamant that topical treatments CAN affect even parts of the scalp to which you don't directly apply them.

BTW, _I_ try to take advantage of that, too. When I apply Proxiphen, I try to scatter it around the top of my scalp by applying small amounts here and there. Theoretically, I'm sure it would be best of all if you could apply a thin film evenly across the entire scalp (assuming that you have generalized thinning in the first place), but I'm sure what I do is the next-best thing.

Bryan

 

[Felk]

I've had a good deal of trouble attempting to apply proxiphen to my entire scalp. When i simply apply it to my temples/sides, i use about a third of the recommended amount. When i try to apply it everywhere, I use way more than the recommended amount! (im trying to use less for cost purposes)

I read in an old post that you used the liquid version of proxiphen. I know Dr P says its weaker, even when applied twice a day, but i was considering it since i find prox-n so easy to apply, and you get twice as much with the liquid.

Do you know if the minoxidil content is the same Bryan? I dont really want my results to be dependent soley from twice daily minoxidil applications, you see. Would you recommend the liquid version for any reason at all, aside from perhaps cost?

 

[ricknelson]

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Is proxiphen a pain to appy? What is the deal with the "liquid version"? Lotions are a real hassle when applying to a scalp with a fair amount of hair. Any comments from users is certainly welcome.

 

[CCS]

here are some answers to the auther:

proxiphen is $100/month. Prox-N is $59 for two months. There is no proxiphen-N.

Prox-N is non-greasy and smells so good you'll look forwards to applying it and stop using your colone.

proxiphen has dht blockers that a much weaker than propecia, but helpful. Prox-N does not.

proxiphen is a 25mL vial and should last a long time on that small spot.

proxiphen has minoxidil in it. so you don't have to apply minoxidil to that corner. But it is highly adviseable that you apply minoxidil to your whole scalp for maintanance, unless it is thick and you want to see if propecia does that. proxiphen is too expensive to apply to your whole scalp.

prox-N is 60 mL. if you apply 30 drops per day (three times the suggested dose), it lasts 2 months. after you get good results you can lower the frequency. I use 15 drops per day on an area 4 inches by 4 inches. it spreads better on a wet scalp.

proxiphen has a few other ingredients besides spironolactone and minoxidil than prox-N, but if you are using spironolactone and minoxidil, I'm not sure if it is worth paying the $100.

anyone know just what extra ingredients are in proxiphen over prox-N. The Doctor likes to say "etc" a lot.

 

[CCS]

OK, I read the posts more closely and see I should be doing twice a day instead of once. perhaps i should keep stuff simple with lef.org, but i'm thinking about adding 10 drops in a vial, using my minoxidil dropper to get 2/3 mL of water or 70% isopropyl alcohol to the vial, sucking up the mL, and adding that to my thin areas, and using the full strength on the front. there is no alcohol on the ingredients. just water and propylene glycol. I wonder if the alcohol would mess things up.

 

[eliazush]

What do you guys think of using prox-n in the morning and proxiphen at night?? that would promise you're using allt he good stuff in these two product, and it does solve the dilema if to use each of the once a day or twice a day...

 

[VeryTired]

Thanks guys !
I think I'll just stick to Xandrox 5% in the morning and Xandrox 15% in the evening until the effect wears off and then I'll be adding Prox-N and Proxiphen or something to see if it has any good results on me on top of minoxidil..
I recently bought Dr. Lee's 5% spironolactone cream for the right side of my front hairline and I've been using it twice a day every day, I hope it's any good..

Thanks again,
Tired.