Replacing Finasteride with RU58841

[Synaesthesia]

Howdy.

I've been on Finasteride & Nizoral (no minoxidil) a little over 2 months now.

• For the first month I took 1 mg finasteride daily. With already decent results (dreaded itch & shower shed both eliminated), I cut my dose to 0.5 mg daily in hopes of offsetting the undesirable side-effects I had been experiencing.
• Two weeks later, I noticed some of the blonde vellus hair in my temples gaining color. Although diminished, the side-effects still persisted. So I dropped to dosage 0.25 mg daily.
• After about a week at 0.25 mg /day, the dreaded itch had returned, and I noticed I was again shedding too much in the shower. Side-effects also subsided to tolerable levels, but without results, the point is lost. So I returned to 0.5mg a day.
• Itch and shed has once again exited my life. I've had even more progress with the vellus hair in my temples, slightly thickening and gaining a little more color. If I continued this dosage of finasteride, I believe I would gain about 3/4" progression of hairline in my most-affected temple (including only the vellus hairs that have already progressed). This would bring my hairline back to about 3 years ago, and I would be ****ing stoked. Unfortunately, side-effects have still persisted, and I'm not happy about it.

My side effects include occasional dizziness that persists for hours at a time. A less sensitive shaft, with less pleasurable orgasm. Decreased seminal volume. Testicular ache (mostly in left testicle). Decreased testicular size (mostly in left testicle)(they both seem to be squishier and not quite filled-to-capacity). Relative difficulty in engaging an erection (often requires manual stimulation and patience), and often a less strong/full erection. Loss of morning wood. Interestingly I still find myself horny very often (possibly from the increased testosterone + intense physical activity on the daily), but it's a different kind of horny that doesn't induce erections without manual stimulation. The degree to which I experience the side effects changes on the daily, but their existence is indisputable.


It seems RU58841 is my only hope to continue progress while minimizing side-effects. A few questions:

1. What is the proper application technique for RU? The thinning is primarily in the front third of my scalp & temples - haven't noticed thinning of crown yet. I have very long hair (nipple-length).
2. What is the difference between the ethanol with PG vs with KB? The impression I got is KB is preferred. If so, why?
3. I'd like to begin with a moderate dose - would that be 2.5% (1ml with 25mg)?
4. If I begin the RU while I'm still tapering off of finasteride, hypothetically I could avoid the return of the dread scalp itch + shed, correct?
5. While not guaranteed, my understanding is RU could maintain and progress the results I've had with Finasteride. Is this correct?
6. I plan on purchasing the powder and K&B solution separate from Kane, and mixing it weekly. I'd just like to verify Kane (anagen inc) is still the only "reputable" place to purchase RU from?

Many thanks for your time. :turned:

 

[Swoop]

1. It's applied just as any other topical.
2. Nothing. K&B is just a vehicle, but expensive. Some people like it but I think it's nonsense. Get yourself the powder and mix it in your own vehicle, it's very easy.
3. Jup 2.5% is 25mg/ml
4. Maybe, yes.
5. Jup, but not guaranteed.
6. No ziom is also a source. I don't get it there, but I'm sure he is legit.

Good luck unk:.

 

[g.i joey]

swoop, can you link to me to anyone whos had maintenance just using ru?

 

[Synaesthesia]

Thanks for the info, Swoop.

 

[Swoop]

swoop, can you link to me to anyone whos had maintenance just using ru?

Do you mean studies or actual persons? And over how long are we talking? El_duterino is probably the most outspoken about RU and has maintained with it for 4 years long, but he switched to CB now, he is active at HLH. Elevation is probably the longest standing user who used RU for a duration of 10 years at 100mg a day I think.

Honestly have a google search man, you'll find tons of anecdotal evidence.

 

[rclark]

Thanks for the info, Swoop.

What's up with that Jesus icon?

That's f*****g blasphemy. Won't have it.

Stop posting my picture here. I'm offended!

 

[Swoop]

hey @Swoop I was wondering if ru58841 goes systemic like finasteride does. Also, what is the difference between and kb solution and ethanol. Like, will it harm my skin or anything of that nature? Also, does ru58841 block both enzymes. If it does, wouldn't applying it topically thin skin as skin is dependant on type 1?

There are only study on macaque monkeys done that evaluate this precisely.

In 4 monkeys 5% topical RU was given and in two of those monkeys RU was detected in plasma. In the other 2 monkeys nothing was detected.

In 3 monkeys 0.5% RU was given and in none of those monkeys RU was detected.

https://www.infona.pl/resource/bwmeta1.element.elsevier-5d8b8e9a-87d8-3665-a251-1f766eb8cef1

Using the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, we examined the effects of two antiandrogens, oral finasteride (FS) and topical RU58841 (RU), on follicular regrowth and serum levels of T and DHT. FS is known to inhibit type II reductase and to induce follicular growth in the macaque bald scalp (Rhodes et al., J.C.E.M. 79:991, 1994). RU, a potent non-steroidal androgen receptor (AR) blocker, reduces the size of hamster flank organs by topical application (Battmann et al., J. Steroid. Biochem. Molec. Biol. 48:55, 1944). FS (1mg/kg/day) and placebo, in 10 animals each, were given for 6 months. RU (5, 0.5%) and vehicle (0.5ml/kg/day) were topically applied in a total of 10 animals (4,3,3). Skin biopsies for micromorphometric analysis (folliculogram) were taken at 0 and 6 months for FS and at 0 and 4 months for RU. The populations of anagen follicles and vellus follicles enlarged to terminal size were compared to those in pre-treatment stages; anagen follicles increased an average of 88% with FS and 103% with RU (5%) and growth of vellus follicles to terminal size was 12% with FS, and 26% with RU (5%). RU (0.5%) showed a weak effect and placebos induced no effect. Hair regrowth was observed in varying degrees with both agents; RU (5%) induced the most growth after only 2 months of treatment. Plasma RU and metabolites (10-20 ng/ml) were detected in 2 cases (5%) at 3, and one at 6, months. Serum DHT decreased about 70% and T (males) increased with FS, but exhibited no significant changes with RU. Both reduced systemic production of DHT and local AR block induced regrowth of regressed follicles in the macaque bald scalp. Although FS induced a marked decrease of DHT, DHT remaining or that produced by FS-resistant reductase (Type I) still contributed to a certain degree of follicular regression. Since T and DHT share the same receptor, a locally sufficient dose of AR blocker appears to suppress T/DHT induced follicular regression more effectively than reductase inhibition.

 

[whatevr]

Although FS induced a marked decrease of DHT, DHT remaining or that produced by FS-resistant reductase (Type I) still contributed to a certain degree of follicular regression.

So inhibiting Type I is also important in baldness, just like that Dutasteride study showed in the past. Makes the case for Zix being a good addition to RU or finasteride regimen (provided it actually works in vivo like it does in vitro).

 

[Swoop]

thank you @Swoop . Are you able to give me some insight on what K and B solution means, and whether it is dangerous?

It's a vehicle or carrier that was or is patented to include a anti-androgen, in this case it's RU58841.

The inventors of the patent claim that it releases the compound in a timely manner over 24 hours, instead of releasing the drug more rapidly.

This is because the vehicle includes a film forming agent.

The patent includes a section where they tested RU58841 in the K&B vehicle in a skin permeation test and found that 90% of the drug permeated over a 24 hour period.

Whether this holds truth or not, I don't know. I use ETH/PG. I guess it's a personal preference kind of thing.