Samumed Sm04554 Results Normalized To Baseline

[ElToso]

It was mentioned in several threads, but I cannot find those threads atm.
I did find this (see attachment) though lol:

And here:

KY19382

Qualcuno sa qualcosa su questa nuova molecola? "Therefore, our results suggest that KY19382 may be useful for treatment of hair loss and baldness via its effective dual targeting ability to inhibit both GSK-3β and CXXC5-Dvl interaction."...

calvizie.net

That's my thread lol

 

[ElToso]

And here:

KY19382

Qualcuno sa qualcosa su questa nuova molecola? "Therefore, our results suggest that KY19382 may be useful for treatment of hair loss and baldness via its effective dual targeting ability to inhibit both GSK-3β and CXXC5-Dvl interaction."...

calvizie.net

The person I was talking about said he bought a gram of KY, I contacted him but in the end he was not very cooperative so I gave up

 

[Tom4362]

That's the first I've heard of this group buy I'm running. lol Also, they already told us the vehicle they are using.

Do you think you will be able to obtain some KY-19382 soon?

 

[pegasus2]

Do you think you will be able to obtain some KY-19382 soon?

No.

 

[Chads don't bald]

Will there be an oral form of any wnt drugs?

I'm guessing there is no way to safely deliver it to the scalp that's why it is topical, however wnt is a pathway targeted for aging as well and that is systemic, so theoretically an oral form of this should be available right?

 

[frank33]

Yeah but why did they get the green light for phase 3 trials then? Maybe someone can explain?

Even though in both trials they are targeting wnt pathway, they're doing it with completely different molecules and consequently in different ways.
Think about RU and CB, the working principle is the same but CB seems to have a much better safety profile.
All the questions will be answered in roughly two months, but even now i think it's wrong to associate side effects of two different molecules in two different parts of the body just because they both target wnt pathway.
Maybe we will have a perfectly safe drug, maybe it will cause cardiac arrest, we don't know yet, but believe me, both efficacy and side effects have nothing to do with other drugs in samumed's pipeline.

 

[nick123]

quite possible. But these severe side effects make me feel insecure. It is just a one-year study. If the other treatment already had heart problems, this means that this does not just stay in the knee. Could also be the case with sm04554. Who knows what you might have after 5 years of use ...

This is wild speculation.. The thing to take into consideration here is the people reviewing this at the FDA or EMA will be much more qualified than us to evaluate safety, let's see what they have to say first.

 

[Gegen]

Even though in both trials they are targeting wnt pathway, they're doing it with completely different molecules and consequently in different ways.
Think about RU and CB, the working principle is the same but CB seems to have a much better safety profile.
All the questions will be answered in roughly two months, but even now i think it's wrong to associate side effects of two different molecules in two different parts of the body just because they both target wnt pathway.
Maybe we will have a perfectly safe drug, maybe it will cause cardiac arrest, we don't know yet, but believe me, both efficacy and side effects have nothing to do with other drugs in samumed's pipeline.

+ lorecivivint has the opposite effect of SM04554 ( downregulates Wnt expression ).

Saying "SM04554 would cause cardiac arrest because lorecevivint did and because they target the same pathway." is the same as saying "Andractim would cause sexual impotence in men because Finasteride did and because they target the same pathway.".

 

[MrV88]

quite possible. But these severe side effects make me feel insecure. It is just a one-year study. If the other treatment already had heart problems, this means that this does not just stay in the knee. Could also be the case with sm04554. Who knows what you might have after 5 years of use ...

Hopefully more hair...

 

[pegasus2]

SM didn't show side effects. It's a completely different drug, and I doubt it shows any in phase 3.

 

[Tom4362]

The side effects will be all kinds of hair, all kinds (hodgetwins voice)

 

[Gegen]

SM didn't show side effects. It's a completely different drug, and I doubt it shows any in phase 3.

I wanted to ask you something : Do you think apply some slight fgfr downregulator like Ferulic Acid could improve SM04554 results or even Minoxidil results ?

 

[pegasus2]

I wanted to ask you something : Do you think apply some slight fgfr downregulator like Ferulic Acid could improve SM04554 results or even Minoxidil results ?

In theory.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

a

In theory.

sorry to bother you with that but as you are one of the most knowledgable here are you somewht hopefull for sm results or do you think it will be weak at best? i'm honestly desperate and about to give up as my genes are too shitty to allow m to win that battle but do you think it could ar least give us with severe hairloss and non repsonder to dutasteride and anti androgen in general maintenance? thanks

 

[pegasus2]

a

sorry to bother you with that but as you are one of the most knowledgable here are you somewht hopefull for sm results or do you think it will be weak at best? i'm honestly desperate and about to give up as my genes are too shitty to allow m to win that battle but do you think it could ar least give us with severe hairloss and non repsonder to dutasteride and anti androgen in general maintenance? thanks

People who don't respond to dutasteride probably won't respond to anything short of full hrt. At least as far as what's currently or soon to be available.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

thxsso i guess i'm fucked.... i had high hopes for sm

 

[nick123]

thxsso i guess i'm fucked.... i had high hopes for sm

Eh before you give up entirely, can you elaborate on what you define as a non responder to dutasteride? Do you feel it has no effect on your hair whatsoever or is it that you can't maintain with dutasteride alone?

A combination of dutasteride, RU or CB and SM04554 may be enough to help you maintain.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

Eh before you give up entirely, can you elaborate on what you define as a non responder to dutasteride? Do you feel it has no effect on your hair whatsoever or is it that you can't maintain with dutasteride alone?

A combination of dutasteride, RU or CB and SM04554 may be enough to help you maintain.

took dutasteride for 2 years and my hairline just kept on receeding just like when i was on finasteride before ( my twin haas been on dutasteride for 5 years now and it's the same for him he only maitains cause he is using nuclear dose of topical min + oral min which is ruining his face).

tried low dose ru beore but honestly i'm too far gone and already hypogonadal and eligible for trt tbh my genes are too subhuman to win that fight as i know if i hop on trt the test will ruin my hairline and i'm not willing to go on high dose of RU+ dutasteride just to see if i could maintain so as much as i'll look even more hideous with no hair i think i got no choice ( turning into a woman for a few hair or giving up :/)

got some additional bloodwork to do tomorow to decide if i want to get on trt so i' waiting for sm results and maybe going to try a low dose ru and topical dutasteride just to see in the meantime.

 

[pegasus2]

took dutasteride for 2 years and my hairline just kept on receeding just like when i was on finasteride before ( my twin haas been on dutasteride for 5 years now and it's the same for him he only maitains cause he is using nuclear dose of topical min + oral min which is ruining his face).

tried low dose ru beore but honestly i'm too far gone and already hypogonadal and eligible for trt tbh my genes are too subhuman to win that fight as i know if i hop on trt the test will ruin my hairline and i'm not willing to go on high dose of RU+ dutasteride just to see if i could maintain so as much as i'll look even more hideous with no hair i think i got no choice ( turning into a woman for a few hair or giving up :/)

got some additional bloodwork to do tomorow to decide if i want to get on trt so i' waiting for sm results and maybe going to try a low dose ru and topical dutasteride just to see in the meantime.

Maybe it will be easier for you to clean your diet, IF, exercise, and slow the aging process so that you'll still be young when something better comes to market.

 

[frank33]

People who don't respond to dutasteride probably won't respond to anything short of full hrt. At least as far as what's currently or soon to be available.

You keep saying that dutasteride and finasteride non responders will not be able to get results neither from SM-04554. They work on two different aspects of Androgenetic Alopecia, so i don't see why one's efficacy would exclude the other's.
What i understood, as much as my limited knowledge allowed me to, is that Androgens don't make the damage themselves, instead they change something in the hair growth cicle and this then leads to miniaturization. This "something" (or at least the main responsible) appears to be the wnt pathway, which is downregulated by the action of androgens. Being able to upregulate it back to physiological levels means attacking Androgenetic Alopecia a step further from androgens receptors. It's like saying "You, DHT, do what you want, since you will not be able to screw hair growth cycle anymore!". So we could have a scalp full of dht and other androgens of every kind, hair follicles packed with androgen receptors in the worst way genetics could imagine it and no effect on the hair growth cycle, because we are keeping wnt pathway to physiological levels thanks to this drug.
This, at least, is what i've understood, based on the relevant studies in this matter.
Being no expert at all, i will be really happy to learn if something, if not everything in my current understanding is wrong and discuss about it.

I have no intention to judge your opinions, but just to understand your point and discuss.