Samumed Sm04554 Results Normalized To Baseline

[Throwaway94]

Thanks.
I think about it this way: however full of sh8t he might be, if he makes these claims and comes out with: "no significant improvement over placebo" next month, he loses his entire credibility including on the other larger markets (cancer, ...). He could have easily dropped the baldness mentioned and still pleasured himself.

Unless they rig the data...

Interesting OLD article:

What's bigger than a unicorn? Samumed stuns yet again as anti-aging pipeline draws $438M at $12B valuation

Samumed came out with a bang a couple years ago, when it boldly announced a couple of anti-aging programs and a $12 billion valuation. The San Diego company, which operated ...

endpts.com

The thing is we've seen their phase 1 data and it's not impressive. Plenty of forum members have tried it as well with no ground breaking results.

Obviously there is something to the WNT pathway and I imagine it will help as part of a multifaceted regimen but that's all it'll ever be.

 

[Hlbgone]

"We solved cancer, old age, baldness and Alzheimer's "

‘Kanseri, yaşlılığı, kelliği ve alzheimeri çözdük’

ABD’de faaliyet gösteren biyoteknoloji şirketi Samumed kurucusu ve CEO’su Osman Kibar, İzmir Ticaret Odası (İZTO) tarafından düzenlenen “İzmir Girişimcilik...

www.hurriyet.com.tr

(Google Translate)

"We enable the body to regenerate the cartilage tissues that disappear over time. We have been successful in mice and rats. It will work 100 percent in humans too."

"Another program we have is cancer. We have two drugs for cancer. The first is for blood cancers, the other is for cancers in internal organs. The drugs we find in all different types of cancers in different organs reverse cancer. It destroys the growth of cancer. We started to experiment on people on this subject. Cancer disappeared in 9 of 11 patients who were sent home on the grounds that it was 1-2 weeks before their death. The difference of our medicine is that we don't eradicate that cancer mutation. We just prevent that mutation from turning into cancer. As long as the person with cancer takes that drug for life, the mutation never happens and the cancer never comes back"

"Another medicine is for baldness. When you apply it, your hair grows again. However, no matter what your age is, your hair grows with the color of your 20s as it also affects the cells responsible for giving the hair color."

"Another program of ours is to prevent Alzheimer's disease, or even restore memory. The medicine we developed in this regard does not only restore the memory, it does it better. The person's memory reaches the level in his 20s when he is at his healthiest. This drug, which passed the animal experimentation stage, restored the memory and physical activities of an 82-year-old woman. He started walking again and eating."

"We can also reverse blindness. In this experiment, the animals began to see again with the needle in the corner of the eye. Likewise, we can reverse those who are paralyzed. It worked on the mice and they started running again. ”


wow very impressive. The CEO of Samumed speaks of a cure. So that the hair will be like its early 20s. The company is easily worth 12 billion. Thus, we can expect strong results when the CEO uses such words.

Bold claims, extremely bold claims. He never mentioned that the baldness cure was tested on humans. He just stated that your hair comes back and with the same colour of your 20's.

It seems like a crock of bs. We'll see though. It feels like he is trying to appeal to investors

 

[5minutesbeforemiracle]

When you consider that former employee's claims of Samumed rigging their data, and also the CEO making super hyperbolic words, there' a non-zero chance this company is actually a scam.
Still though, there' a good chance the company is actually legit. I'm still hopeful.

 

[Hlbgone]

A former employee says Samumed is crooked and rigging data. IMO he might be overly paranoid but he didn't sound like he was intentionally lying.

The CEO is continually spinning grandoise claims about stuff in trials while they are raising large amounts of money from private investors.

This company smells funny.

Where did they disclose this info?

 

[waynakyo]

Damn bad news. That's f-ed up.

Who tried it???

The thing is we've seen their phase 1 data and it's not impressive. Plenty of forum members have tried it as well with no ground breaking results.

I was not aware of that at all

 

[trialAcc]

Damn bad news. That's f-ed up.

Who tried it???

I was not aware of that at all

Yeah, mostly bull sh*t. I'm sure some people have tried it but it seems the vehicle in the patent is not an easy one to replicate, and much like most of these treatments when tried from chemicals, the purity is always questionable and the period of use almost always falls short of a valid trial period.

Most people in the CB thread have never tested their CB, get side-effects that are not mentioned in either the acne trials or the phase 2 for alopecia (meaning they have some other substance on their heads), use percentages well under the tested trial dosage of 7.5% and gave up under 6 months in. I assume most people using SM would be the same, so lets just wait for the data from 600+ people shall we.

 

[trialAcc]

A former employee says Samumed is crooked and rigging data. IMO he might be overly paranoid but he didn't sound like he was intentionally lying.

The CEO is continually spinning grandoise claims about stuff in trials while they are raising large amounts of money from private investors.

This company smells funny.

They are not rigging data in FDA compliant human trials, it's simply just not happening.

If they were "rigging" anything, it would be presentation materials used to get funding, which of course is possible and probably even legal.

 

[trialAcc]

The thing is we've seen their phase 1 data and it's not impressive. Plenty of forum members have tried it as well with no ground breaking results.

Obviously there is something to the WNT pathway and I imagine it will help as part of a multifaceted regimen but that's all it'll ever be.

Do you mean phase 2 data? Phase 1 data is almost useless to judge efficacy.

The phase 2 data seemed pretty decent-to-impressive to me. 12% growth in velus hairs after 90 days that continued to improve into the 125 day follow up period after use had stopped, including an increase in average density greater than vehicle. If that improved any further into the 6-12 month periods and worked on a broader group then minoxidil does this would be pretty big for a lot of people. 10-15% doesn't seem like a lot to bald dudes but I'm sure if you asked a early diffuse thinner if they'd appreciate 10-15% more hair when only 50% of original is needed for ascetics, they'd be thrilled.

This is also supposed to work in a mechanism that prevents miniaturization so unlike minoxidil will actually help slow down the process.

 

[waynakyo]

@trialAcc glad you chimed in.

They are not rigging data in FDA compliant human trials, it's simply just not happening.

If they were "rigging" anything, it would be presentation materials used to get funding, which of course is possible and probably even legal.

Just to be clear: You can't rig the data to the FDA.
But can they just "rig" the results on their website/announcement? (which is where we get our news from).

cheers

 

[Hlbgone]

Do you mean phase 2 data? Phase 1 data is almost useless to judge efficacy.

The phase 2 data seemed pretty decent-to-impressive to me. 12% growth in velus hairs after 90 days that continued to improve into the 125 day follow up period after use had stopped, including an increase in average density greater than vehicle. If that improved any further into the 6-12 month periods and worked on a broader group then minoxidil does this would be pretty big for a lot of people. 10-15% doesn't seem like a lot to bald dudes but I'm sure if you asked a early diffuse thinner if they'd appreciate 10-15% more hair when only 50% of original is needed for ascetics, they'd be thrilled.

This is also supposed to work in a mechanism that prevents miniaturization so unlike minoxidil will actually help slow down the process.

Honestly if they could somehow stretch to 20% or even 30% that would be incredible. A hair transplant plus samumed for maintenance would be a huge plus in my book.

Dr Osman making those outlandish claims doesn't sit well with me. However I prefer to wait for Phase 3 results to see what we have to work with.

 

[trialAcc]

@trialAcc glad you chimed in.


Just to be clear: You can't rig the data to the FDA.
But can they just "rig" the results on their website/announcement? (which is where we get our news from).

cheers

No they can't, the results would be submitted to the FDA for the final drug NDA when they request approval to move to market and would have to have the same trial data. Sure they can do backhanded phrases and simply say it grows hair and is safe when speaking (similar to what Casseopia has done with CB), but they'll be presenting hard data tables that show how much and what side effects were reported.

 

[trialAcc]

Honestly if they could somehow stretch to 20% or even 30% that would be incredible. A hair transplant plus samumed for maintenance would be a huge plus in my book.

Dr Osman making those outlandish claims doesn't sit well with me. However I prefer to wait for Phase 3 results to see what we have to work with.

I just think the vast majority of people are judging this too soon when the data is literally right around the corner. Everyone who posts on this forum knows how long it takes to see results from current treatments. Most will openly say 3 months is the bare minimum because of hair cycles/growth speed, and yet, are willing to write this off because a 90 day trial didn't post a miracle.

 

[Throwaway94]

Do you mean phase 2 data? Phase 1 data is almost useless to judge efficacy.

The phase 2 data seemed pretty decent-to-impressive to me. 12% growth in velus hairs after 90 days that continued to improve into the 125 day follow up period after use had stopped, including an increase in average density greater than vehicle. If that improved any further into the 6-12 month periods and worked on a broader group then minoxidil does this would be pretty big for a lot of people. 10-15% doesn't seem like a lot to bald dudes but I'm sure if you asked a early diffuse thinner if they'd appreciate 10-15% more hair when only 50% of original is needed for ascetics, they'd be thrilled.

This is also supposed to work in a mechanism that prevents miniaturization so unlike minoxidil will actually help slow down the process.

Yup sorry phase 2. It was approx a 9% increase for the 0.15% group but they were all NW4 and up. 9% of not much is not much.

Throw in the general shadiness of the company and I think you've got a super average treatment. Don't get me wrong I'll be glad when it's approved because it's better than nothing but the CEO is way out of line right now

 

[eeyore]

I just think the vast majority of people are judging this too soon when the data is literally right around the corner. Everyone who posts on this forum knows how long it takes to see results from current treatments. Most will openly say 3 months is the bare minimum because of hair cycles/growth speed, and yet, are willing to write this off because a 90 day trial didn't post a miracle.

That's a good point, I've never considered that. Even with their six month phase 3 trial we might not really know its true efficacy.

 

[5minutesbeforemiracle]

They are not rigging data in FDA compliant human trials, it's simply just not happening.

If they were "rigging" anything, it would be presentation materials used to get funding, which of course is possible and probably even legal.

How do you know they can't falsify data for FDA trials? Does the FDA supervise the trials too / audit results?
I recall in that article that the former Samumed employee wrote, he said that it was the highly secretive data/statistics division that was behind the data falsification, and that due to company culture it was impossible to actually audit the raw results.

I will add, that all that talk about data falsification was speculation on that employee's behalf, he never once saw any hard evidence.

 

[MrV88]

"We solved cancer, old age, baldness and Alzheimer's "

‘Kanseri, yaşlılığı, kelliği ve alzheimeri çözdük’

ABD’de faaliyet gösteren biyoteknoloji şirketi Samumed kurucusu ve CEO’su Osman Kibar, İzmir Ticaret Odası (İZTO) tarafından düzenlenen “İzmir Girişimcilik...

www.hurriyet.com.tr

(Google Translate)

"We enable the body to regenerate the cartilage tissues that disappear over time. We have been successful in mice and rats. It will work 100 percent in humans too."

"Another program we have is cancer. We have two drugs for cancer. The first is for blood cancers, the other is for cancers in internal organs. The drugs we find in all different types of cancers in different organs reverse cancer. It destroys the growth of cancer. We started to experiment on people on this subject. Cancer disappeared in 9 of 11 patients who were sent home on the grounds that it was 1-2 weeks before their death. The difference of our medicine is that we don't eradicate that cancer mutation. We just prevent that mutation from turning into cancer. As long as the person with cancer takes that drug for life, the mutation never happens and the cancer never comes back"

"Another medicine is for baldness. When you apply it, your hair grows again. However, no matter what your age is, your hair grows with the color of your 20s as it also affects the cells responsible for giving the hair color."

"Another program of ours is to prevent Alzheimer's disease, or even restore memory. The medicine we developed in this regard does not only restore the memory, it does it better. The person's memory reaches the level in his 20s when he is at his healthiest. This drug, which passed the animal experimentation stage, restored the memory and physical activities of an 82-year-old woman. He started walking again and eating."

"We can also reverse blindness. In this experiment, the animals began to see again with the needle in the corner of the eye. Likewise, we can reverse those who are paralyzed. It worked on the mice and they started running again. ”


wow very impressive. The CEO of Samumed speaks of a cure. So that the hair will be like its early 20s. The company is easily worth 12 billion. Thus, we can expect strong results when the CEO uses such words.

The article is from 2019, based on a conference in Izmir that has already been discussed here, practically they found something that is able to restore damaged tissue, no matter what it is, brain, hair, organs, knee, etc, Hope at least 10% is true

 

[Throwaway94]

Ah yes, the baseless retarded conjecture starts again.

Baseless retarded conjecture is what Osman Kibar is doing

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Oh yes I forgot I was on gourmetstylewellness.com, where members know more than the scientists behind a 12 billion dollar company... Lol

Yes, they do!

 

[Throwaway94]

Oh yes I forgot I was on gourmetstylewellness.com, where members know more than the scientists behind a 12 billion dollar company... Lol

You'd have to be pretty daft to take what he says at face value. He was spouting all of this before phase 2 trials had even started. It's all hype from him and the results so far show that there's a very moderate improvement at best.

 

[Flamingflaps]

His claims are hyperbolic. I just hope there’s some element of truth to them. Not long to wait now for further info...