Because minoxidil is better
Samumed Sm04554 Results Normalized To Baseline
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Minoxidil is better at regrowth for sure but is it a better Wnt agonist than VPA? Surely we can use both together?
Isn't minoxidil sulfate powder pretty unstable? I thought there were issues around mixing that yourself.Based on their unimpressive results there are Wnt agonists already on the market that will meet or exceed SM's potential. Instead of waiting for SM just use VPA, it's probably more potent.
Topical valproic acid increases the hair count in male patients with androgenetic alopecia: a randomized, comparative, clinical feasibility study using phototrichogram analysis - PubMed
Valproic acid (VPA), a widely used anticonvulsant, inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3β and activates the Wnt/β-catenin pathway, which is associated with hair growth cycle and anagen induction. To assess the efficacy of topical VPA for treating androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia), we performed a...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
If you aren't a responder to minoxidil you can take oral minoxidil, which has a 100% response rate, or get minoxidil sulfate powder and mix it yourself, also 100% response rate. Microneedling and tretinoin also turn minoxidil non-responders into responders. Or you can go the PGF2a route, latanoprost and bimatoprost are already on the market and equivalent to minoxidil. SM will not perform as well as minoxidil so it's pretty much useless. If you get side effects from minoxidil or pgf2a analogues then just use VPA instead of waiting for SM. There's no drug more advanced than minoxidil coming in the next 5 years, but you can get KY19382 on the grey market which might exceed minoxidil.
Also, VPA is interesting, but is the topical on the market? I thought it was just an oral medication.
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It is unstable, but you can make weekly batches in a non-aqueous solution.
VPA raw powder is very cheap, you can make the topical yourself. People have been using it for at least ten years on the forums.
Is there a user thread anywhere you could link me to?
I'm more looking for maintenance level results without using RU, not some growth explosion.
Do you think there's anything other then min/finasteride/dutasteride (and obviously HRT) that can provide cosmetic results? E.g. breezula when it comes out? I heard there's a group buy for ordering fluridil at 7.5% concentration too..could that have potential?
Btw seeing something about risk of cancer from sm on the second page of this thread..that sounds concerning. Like hair is important but...
Difficult thing abour maintenance results is who is to say what would have happened without the medications... some people just develop receding hairlines and then not much after that..or thin and then stop thinning. About 10 years ago I was told on this site that if i didn't use finasteride I'd be NW6 by now. Well my hair is definitely not in as good shape as it was but I'm nowhere near NW6 (even though that is probably my thinning pattern). I'm around NW3V in reality and back then I was more like NW2 with only slight thinning at the crown.
Breezula and RU, but the results probably don't even last as long as minoxidil which is not long.
Wouldn't the results last longer than minoxidil though if their mode of action is stopping DHT at the follicle? Not convinced on fluridil? I was excited about the idea of getting it at higher concentration but sounds like it needs to be stored in the freezer which for me is pretty impractical especially considering travel.
What's your hair situation and routine BTW?
They should be, but it doesn't look like it for reasons I don't care to speculate about.
Not enough to join the group buy for it.
My routine is complicated lol
Would be interested to hear it sometime. Both your routine but also about why you think things like CB or even RU won't work very long.
Hm. I was aware of that but wasn't sure if it were the dose or vehicle they plan to make available. Hopefully the phase 3 might show better results (although perhaps that's not what they're testing for at phase 3). Shame we can't see data over 2 years.
Any idea what OD means btw? I know BID is twice a day.
- Reaction score
- 180
OD = Once daily
BID = Twice daily
Ah, of course.
Ok, that is a lot of money. I won't look into how much of that went in his pocket, but surely enough to make him rich. It's still a drop in the bucket compared to his Samumed valuation, and being rich never stopped people from trying to become more rich by any means possible. There's no way that SM modulates the Wnt pathway in as potent a fashion as Surrozen's drugs, yet Surrozen isn't a billion dollar company, at least not yet. You also don't see Surrozen running around hyping up their drugs to everyone who will listen, calling them cures. They have more basis for doing that than Samumed, yet they aren't. Kibar is the snake oil salesman getting all the attention and money hawking cures for all your ailments in town square while Surrozen is working away quietly and studiously on advancing medicine. When they release their revolutionary treatments the treatments will speak for themselves. They won't need the flash and hyperbole that Kibar is famous for.Wrong, he was (very) rich before Samumed
In the late 1990s, when he was finishing his doctorate, he invented a cancer diagnosis system, which he turned into a company called Genoptix. The company went public a few years later, and was purchased by Novartis in 2011 for $476 million.
After completing his education, Kibar moved to New York City, where he worked for the hedge fund sponsor Pequot Capital.
Osman Kibar
en.wikipedia.org
It's simple. I've seen nothing to show me that his compound upregulates Wnt signaling to a greater degree than any other Wnt antagonist that forum members have been using for over ten years. Just put some lithium chloride on your head and stop waiting for this showman to release his overpriced junk
Well, it means a lot to survive the clinical trial gamut. Upregulating WNT on paper doesn't always translate to hair growing on one's head, as there are too many points of failure in the journey from point A: being proven to upregulate WNT from a biochemistry standpoint --> point B: growing hair on head. These points of failure might be insufficient vehicle, compound instability, not being powerful enough, etc. For example, the biochemistry behind WAY sounds great on paper. But myself and others have tried 100% real and tested WAY in varying concentrations to no avail at all. Why didn't it work? Who knows. Therefore, a compound surviving scrutiny to make it to point B is pretty good. We do have VPA and MV, but those have only a couple studies, and not rigorous Phase I - III trials with efficacy and safety endpoints for Androgenetic Alopecia.