Scalp Massage Crunching Sounds, What Exactly Is This?

[MyThinningConfidence]

Don’t be so sure about the 1.5mm part. I know a guy who did that and ended up much worse, especially in areas where he already had hair. For me, 0.5 wakes up the resting hair all over my scalp but not enough to make them grow dark and thick. Whats your experience with dermarolling?

I was using a 0.5mm for a couple of months beforehand but I had no results and all it did was make my skin flake off. Since July 11th I've been using a 1.5mm, I've been seeing results within the week although it's hard to say if it's just the other methods coming to fruition now. All of the studies use a 1.5mm so that's where I'd put my faith. 0.5mm isn't really deep enough to get any considerable results and from what I've looked at even longer than 1.5mm is ideal for the best results although 2mm and up gets more dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. There are lots of favourable studies based on microneedling, I find it hard to believe that someone made their balding worse with a 1.5mm unless it got infected or they had some condition where they scar easily.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Yeah I had read this hypothesis when it was first posted in the published studies section, IMO they presents the most coherent explanation to the precursors of male pattern baldness to date, hopefully follow up studies will be conducted to verify it's validity.

If you read it when it first came out it might be worth reading over some of it again, it's been updated and expanded on since then.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Hi thank you for the post, The hypothesis is good but recently a guy in this forum post about certain people that have important problems with lipids, type Berardinelly sindrome
https://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=http://www.iqb.es/monografia/sindromes/images/lawrence.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.iqb.es/monografia/sindromes/s009_01.htm&docid=mFxqt2ci0JNEWM&tbnid=KSE_3YDnFqCBuM:&vet=10ahUKEwjPj9qt8-rcAhUIKBoKHYkvCAkQMwhvKCcwJw..i&w=444&h=300&bih=611&biw=1366&q=berardinelly sindrome&ved=0ahUKEwjPj9qt8-rcAhUIKBoKHYkvCAkQMwhvKCcwJw&iact=mrc&uact=8

or
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0066-782X2000000900006
and they have a very good hair

The hypothesis argues that Androgenetic Alopecia is the result of chronic scalp tension
mediated by pubertal and post-pubertal skull bone growth and/or the
overdevelopment and chronic contraction of muscles connected to the
GA.

My idea is more in the line of the sebum feedback loop

Not sure on what to make of Berardinelli Syndrome, I'm confused how it connects into with male pattern baldness. I noticed something about cardiac involvement though. There is a link between balding and heart disease since they work by the same mechanisms.

There is also a link between balding and acne, I had quite a bit of acne when younger and incredibly greasy hair, it'd get dirty within a few hours of just washing it. I've noticed the scalp massages help release excess sebum and even regulate it, now I've been able to go a whole day and wake up the next for my scalp to get greasy where as it took a few hours beforehand. Makes me really wish I knew about that when I was younger since I read some unscientific hippie blog post which told me not to wash my hair since it's only oily because I wash it often and it's used to restoring the oils. In the end it didn't work and my dermatitis then began.

 

[CuredMouse]

Not sure on what to make of Berardinelli Syndrome, I'm confused how it connects into with male pattern baldness. I noticed something about cardiac involvement though. There is a link between balding and heart disease since they work by the same mechanisms.

There is also a link between balding and acne, I had quite a bit of acne when younger and incredibly greasy hair, it'd get dirty within a few hours of just washing it. I've noticed the scalp massages help release excess sebum and even regulate it, now I've been able to go a whole day and wake up the next for my scalp to get greasy where as it took a few hours beforehand. Makes me really wish I knew about that when I was younger since I read some unscientific hippie blog post which told me not to wash my hair since it's only oily because I wash it often and it's used to restoring the oils. In the end it didn't work and my dermatitis then began.

When you dermaroll how hard do you press? I just did it for the first time and used a 1.5 mm my scalp is red and sore and i can feel it as I'm typing this but no blood spots like others get. I was pushing fairly hard but should I have pushed the entire thing down into my scalp 1.5 mm deep?

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

When you dermaroll how hard do you press? I just did it for the first time and used a 1.5 mm my scalp is red and sore and i can feel it as I'm typing this but no blood spots like others get. I was pushing fairly hard but should I have pushed the entire thing down into my scalp 1.5 mm deep?

Yes, I push with a decent amount of force to make sure the full 1.5mm penetrates the skin, normally you'd expect quite a bit of blood and pain from that length penetrating the skin but there isn't too much of either. I bleed far more past my receding hairline, I think this is mainly due to fibrotic tissue which is associated with the inflammatory process in Androgenetic Alopecia, if you pinch your skin you will notice the balded areas have thicker skin which inhibits blood and nutrient supply to the hair follicle. I think the length of the needle should be dependent on how bad your balding is but 1.5mm is definitely the best and safest.
.

 

[Rocknroutlaw]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think of using an electronic pulse massager to massage your scalp?
I have one of those and used it on my joints/muscle occasionally. I don't think they advise using it on your head, but I think there are other makes/models designed for head massage too...
https://www.dhgate.com/product/electronic-pulse-massager-body-massage-with/157033529.html

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think of using an electronic pulse massager to massage your scalp?
I have one of those and used it on my joints/muscle occasionally. I don't think they advise using it on your head, but I think there are other makes/models designed for head massage too...
https://www.dhgate.com/product/electronic-pulse-massager-body-massage-with/157033529.html

I doubt it'd do much, you need to get quite deep and forceful with your massage to break up the fibrosis. I suppose at most it'd help promote a little blood flow but the effects would be minimal even over a long period of time, you'd probably get more blood flow just simply hanging your head upside down.

 

[Rocknroutlaw]

I doubt it'd do much, you need to get quite deep and forceful with your massage to break up the fibrosis. I suppose at most it'd help promote a little blood flow but the effects would be minimal even over a long period of time, you'd probably get more blood flow just simply hanging your head upside down.

Have you tried using one on your arm? It can be rather deep and strong to the point that it hurts. I just feel that scalp massaging is a rather awkward thing to do, especially if you're mostly pushing skin into each other in an almost a 'pinching' fashion as opposed to heavy rubbing. I guess with the electronic pulse massager you'd need to place the pads in close contact with scalp, so only works well where it's completely bald, not diffusely thinned.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Have you tried using one on your arm? It can be rather deep and strong to the point that it hurts. I just feel that scalp massaging is a rather awkward thing to do, especially if you're mostly pushing skin into each other in an almost a 'pinching' fashion as opposed to heavy rubbing. I guess with the electronic pulse massager you'd need to place the pads in close contact with scalp, so only works well where it's completely bald, not diffusely thinned.

Well that's pretty much what you want to be doing, pinching heavily will allow you to break up the fibrosis in the scalp. I don't think heavy rubbing would really have much effect in terms of that, it'd likely just increase bloodflow but ideally you want to break up the fibrosis. It is a rather awkward thing to do but it gets easier as you get used to it, your fingers will get quite tired and sore fast initially. Unfortunately it's quite a bit of work but I haven't found any good tools that are commercially available yet.

 

[Rocknroutlaw]

Yes,the rubbing is not particularly helpful, and I fear it could break or pull out the remaining hair in the diffusely thinned area. After reading this thread I realised massaging is something I can add to my regime.
I shall give the electronic pulse gadget a go, as I already have one. It's against their advise to do it on the head, but I'll be very cautious on a low setting.

 

[Pixie]

Thanks, it's hard to say if this is a result of solely the scalp massage though, the 1.5mm derma roller would've helped a lot but scalp massages definitely helped my overall scalp condition and it appeared to be thicker before even adding derma rolling to my regime. Initially I was considering taking some hormones to be more feminine since it makes sense considering that only men bald. It led me to this article which sent me down a rabbit hole until eventually discovering the scalp massage. The article is worth the read and all the studies are cited. Scalp massages work under this 2018 Hypothesis which is peer reviewed, it's quite in depth and I haven't gotten around to reading all of it myself.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out tonight! The hormonal route is something I'm currently leaning towards myself. It seems to be drastically effective! Definitely check out Bridgeburns thread in success stories if you haven't already! Despite that, I DO think the calcification angle will also yield great results. (Combining both could be amazing!)

Not sure if you've seen this yet, but this guy claims his gains are entirely from massages

http://www.jdmoyer.com/tag/scalp-calcification/

As for my personal experience since I started: my scalp is becoming a little more pliable. It's not drastic, but it's definitely improved. (I'm using the area above my nape for comparison ). No regrowth yet obviously. It's way too soon!

Keep us up to date on your own progress too!

 

[Armando Jose]

Hi Pixie,
in the link you cited
"My scalp no longer gets “greasy” after the massage sessions — I believe that I expelled any excess sebum within the first few months. My scalp feels much thinner, looser, and more flexible than it did when I first started"
This is my idea, scalp massage mobilices the sebum hardened

 

[Pixie]

That's a possibility Armando. I'm noticing changes every day still. More looseness and today for the first time: flaking and grease (just showered and use nizoral 2x weekly, so I know both effects are specifically from massaging.) It's DEFINITELY doing something. If you're not already scalp massaging, I would urge you to start!

ALSO, I remember reading that magnesium is good for expelling calcium from your body. Perhaps using a topical form could prove beneficial?

 

[Armando Jose]

One of my key questions in common baldness is,
Is there any significative difference in factor X (In this case magnesium/calcium) in the hairs of top of the head and sides?




BTW
https://www.zechsalmagnesium.com/magnesium-deficiency
Along with calcium, magnesium promotes the development of strong bones. Here, a good balance between magnesium and calcium is essential. Too much calcium and too little magnesium results in calcification in the veins, muscles and joints. Magnesium plays a significant role in energy supply and muscle contraction.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out tonight! The hormonal route is something I'm currently leaning towards myself. It seems to be drastically effective! Definitely check out Bridgeburns thread in success stories if you haven't already! Despite that, I DO think the calcification angle will also yield great results. (Combining both could be amazing!)

Not sure if you've seen this yet, but this guy claims his gains are entirely from massages

http://www.jdmoyer.com/tag/scalp-calcification/

As for my personal experience since I started: my scalp is becoming a little more pliable. It's not drastic, but it's definitely improved. (I'm using the area above my nape for comparison ). No regrowth yet obviously. It's way too soon!

Keep us up to date on your own progress too!

Yeah J.D. is the most prominent figure in terms of the scalp massage technique, his hair definitely does look better although it's hard to tell if he had actual regrowth or if his hair has just gotten longer. A lot of the pictures don't have the same angle or length so it makes it fairly hard to gauge his regrowth. I don't think his results are conclusive but they are believable. Sadly when Googling I can only find a few people with success stories with just massaging which is simply just Google's fault for not searching the forums well enough. I just started searching a derma rolling thread and I already found a guy who achieved some good results with mechanical stimulation. His hairline is exactly how mine looks right now with all the longer vellus hairs and it appeared over those months his hairline filled in nicely. This was just a quick little search, I don't really have enough time to be searching forum threads page by page to find success stories but if you find any make sure to post them.

I'll definitely keep you updated on my progress, I've been posting it here. Let me know how your progress goes also.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Yes,the rubbing is not particularly helpful, and I fear it could break or pull out the remaining hair in the diffusely thinned area. After reading this thread I realised massaging is something I can add to my regime.
I shall give the electronic pulse gadget a go, as I already have one. It's against their advise to do it on the head, but I'll be very cautious on a low setting.

I recently found this thread of a guy who had success with an electronic massager, it'd probably be less effective than what you're using but this does indicate the possibility of promising results beyond using the fingers.

 

[Nimatus]

Coconut oil, followed by intense massage with hands only. Had we all had one of these once a week before we lost hair we'd still have it LOL

 

[Splatt]

I mostly just made up my own technique and used the crunching sound as a gauge for the effects. I also used light massages to release sebum and dandruff.
For the Deep Massages normally I use both hands with three fingers each and pinch my scalp deep and hard with those, I focus on the top of my scalp and hairline with these.
For Light Massages I just softly massage my head, then scratch it lightly to help release dandruff followed by some light rubbing of the entire scalp to get it out of my hair.

There are likely much better techniques than what I'm doing but this is just what's worked for me so far, just try to find the best way to break up most of the fibrotic tissue in the shortest amount of time possible. The more people that give this a shot, the better chance we have of discovering better techniques.

Do you experience a lot of shedding after you do a vigorous head message?

 

[Splatt]

I'm currently using my fingers, I've heard of these machines and tools although I've never actually seen or been able to find one. You need to go quite hard and deep into your scalp to actually feel the crunching, you need to dig your fingers in although try not to damage the scalp with your nails. Try and get your scalp as loose and pliable as possible, you want to be able to pinch your scalp and have the skin come up and fold.

It took me 2 or so months of doing it before I actually went deep enough to hear the crunch. I decided to start doing it in the shower to save time but going deeper to reduce hair breakage since wet and then I heard the crunch. Honestly thought I was imaging things at first and that it was just the water in between my folding skin. When you actually get to the point of hearing the crunch I find it hard to imagine a tool that could get as deep and consistent as the fingers without breaking the hair.

See if you can get the crunch sound by going harder and deeper, start of slow and gentle and work your way into it, you want to relax your scalp muscles at the back of your head. If you are tense it makes massaging deeply a lot harder.

Do you experience a heavy shed or hair fall after you do a vigorous shed?

 

[-Synergy-]

@MyThinningConfidence

after reading your thread and seeing your results, I wanted to incorporate scalp messages into my regimen. The only problem is that my hair is very weak from all the scalp issues I have and male pattern hairloss. Anyway, I looked in my freezer one day and found an ice roller. Had it for years and forgot all about it. I threw a thin shirt over the top of my head and started rolling my scalp everywhere. Now either it’s my hair that’s making a crunching sound or it’s my scalp but I hear a ton of popping and my scalp feels nice and lose after. If you see this posy try googling cold roller and you will know what I’m talking about.