Shaved my head, and it's STILL hard to stay positive.

[meetjoeblack]

I take 5 mg daily and have testicular pain

That is insanity. It will suck to lose hair but, why not do so in a heroic manner? Crying and whimpering won't change it. Actually experiencing nut pain is an indication of a problem. I know this from accutane induced male pattern baldness. I stopped after almost five months use. It got sick and it receeded my hairline, caused shedding, thinning, and I look older. I have some greys and even white facial hair. I hope I don't lose hair as I look better with it due to my head shape but I won't hold on. When its time I will shave it.

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If you have a good job and make a lot of money that's also a plus

There are plenty of bald guys that do that and can still pick up girls and are happy...

I agreed with everything but, the part about good job and money. Attraction based on resources is a fools gold.

 

[TransientHair]

If not sarcasm, point to me where you see a bald man in this list: http://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/ce...xiest-hottest-men-of-2014/viewgallery/1326304

The majority of the men on that list seem to be a solid nw1-2. There may be a couple there pushing nw3, but no guys that are a solid nw3 or beyond. Quite telling.

 

[Exodus2011]

I must say that at first I too was quite skeptical of the negative attitudes towards going bald that you see here and on other similar forums. The only problem is that the social science studies that have been done in this area largely seems to bear the pessimists out. I gave a detailed account in another thread about one study that showed mean scores for personal characteristics, as measured with a standardized questionnaire measuring perceived likability, intelligence et.c. being consistently lower for balding men vs. a non-balding control group. When the researcher controlled for perceived attractiveness most of the differences went away. The researcher concluded that the negative perceptions of the balding men were likely being caused by their diminished attractiveness in the eyes of the perceiver. The diminished attractiveness made the scores for other, unrelated personal characteristics go down as well. In psychology, this is known as the "halo effect".

While the research on the social impact of balding is still quite spotty in my opinion (mostly informal research that backs up the pessimists), I would say that it's relatively uncontroversial that it is more likely to make you less attractive than not. And through the halo effect, being less attractive is statistically likely to make other perceive you as less fun, less interesting to be around, less successful et.c. This is an area where the trend in the research is really quite strong. How big an impact it has seems largely dependent on your ethnicity and headshape. Most of the people here are guys who look very bad bald. This category includes me: I foolishly tried to go sly a few years ago and it really opened my eyes.

Your evidence so far consists of unverifiable anecdotes, and a to you prominent exception that is as good an example of the availability heuristic as I can think of. It thus reflects very poorly on you so far that you are still making blanket statements about the impact baldness should or should not have on us. We likely (certainly) lead very different lives from you and are impacted by our condition differently too. For example, I am in a high-end corporate job where the meathead look you are indirectly advocating would get me fired, or at least off the short-list for promotion.

I will leave it to you whether you stick with your largely uninformed opinion or not, but I suggest you do one thing: come back when you have shaved it off. It would be interesting to get your perspective at that point. It certainly changed mine.

what norwood are you now?

 

[Exodus2011]

NW3/4.

what does your girlfriend say about your hair loss?

and ur location is zaire, are you black?

 

[Exodus2011]

I'm not black.

She's been upfront with me that she thinks I'm unattractive without hair and approves of me using treatments.

damn i see. so are you white? why are you in central africa?

thats crazy about your girlfriend, i was surprised when u say u had one (a gf) cuz u had said before that you were ugly and it had caused you mental issues and that therapists sugar coated the issue. i guess you weren't actually as ugly as you thought you were eh?

 

[Exodus2011]

I'm not in Central Africa, I just prefer not to disclose my real location.

Regarding the last point, it's a bit complicated. I don't expect anyone to care about this stuff, but anyway: I'm not hideously deformed or anything like that, though I was quite fugly as a kid. I'm in the camp that looks okayish with a lot of care and attention paid to skin, hair, dress and body. The problem was that my parents deliberately gave me very little guidance on these things. They did this out of a belief that my problem was that I was too anxious and depressed, so I needed unconditional positive reinforcement to get out of the negative mindset. This was something they picked up from therapists and family members who worked in the system. So whatever I was wearing, the response was always "your clothes look great!" Once I started binge eating and gained a lot of weight, it was "you look great with some extra meat on your bones!" If I took steps to alleviate these things, either by losing weight or buying new clothes, they would say "oh, don't be too vain, you look great the way you are!"

The problems with my appearance were compounded by my personality. I did well in school but had a hyperactive imagination, no filter at all and overall a very weak grasp on reality and how the outside world perceived me. In short, I was annoying as **** and the other kids hated me. This too was encouraged by my parents because they didn't want to be too judgmental and let me develop "as I was", plus they thought it was cute in a non-threatening way. They never thought at all about how it would be perceived out in the open.

Of course, to the entire rest of the world I was a complete laughingstock and radioactive socially due to the way I acted and looked. Eventually I became extremely isolated and could go months without going outside or meeting anyone. Essentially I became a kind of Adam Lanza-ish figure, there was even a period when I was actually fantasizing about doing a school shooting. Yet even in this state of complete misery, which they have since acknowledged, my parents kept repeating these same things to me, "just be confident", "smile and be happy". The therapists I saw were saying the same things too. They all invested very little in understanding the core of my problems and stuck to their lazy short-hands out of convenience and maybe also a refusal to update their beliefs.

Throughout this I managed to have some girlfriends on and off but they were generally very short and unfulfilling relationships. The relationship I have now is not perfect but among other things she has been very honest and forthright with me, in the "if you don't change I will leave you" sense. That kind of honesty is extremely valuable; I guess my parents should be taken as a cautionary tale for what happens when parents shy away from their duty to tell their kids what the world will not.

wow i see. thats interesting then. sounds like you just dont have high social iq, i'm the same way + social anxiety

but you can't really call yourself an adam lanza type if you have girlfriends, multiple ones at that! haha. how the heck did you meet them if you were staying inside? i'm assuming real life ones here, not long distance

 

[CaptainForehead]

Yet even in this state of complete misery, which they have since acknowledged, my parents kept repeating these same things to me, "just be confident", "smile and be happy". The therapists I saw were saying the same things too. They all invested very little in understanding the core of my problems and stuck to their lazy short-hands out of convenience and maybe also a refusal to update their beliefs.

Where the hell do these therapists get their training?!?:wacko:
Kool-aid university?!?

 

[DannyBoyy]

The world is a nasty place this last week is one proof of that, everyone can see that there is bad things here and there so does this mean we should just not bother? or do we get on with things? thats what people mean when they say this stuff to you, stop looking into this to much, yes you hairloss is bad for YOU lot, yes there is people who diss it and so on and so on, but you have to move on otherwise you can never live, theres no if or buts here guys, there just isnt, whatever you intend to do, transplant or just stop giving a ****, you have to move on, i always remember my time from 16 to about 18 maybe 19, i worried so many times looked in every reflection an so on, but now i have learned from it. More troubles will come ahead im sure, but thats just life.

 

[I.D WALKER]

Who needs people to remind me of my shortcomings as a bald guy,
when the mirror in my latrine does a godawful good job at it and on a more regular and intimate basis. uke:

 

[DannyBoyy]

You missed the point of my post: you cannot just live your life and move on when you suffer from baldness at an early age.

You can't just deny it's a problem and prey that it will go away. When you go out searching for love, you will get harshly turned down by the majority of women out there.

Baldness needs to be solved. People will not allow you to live a fulfilling and normal life if you're a bald man. They will remind you of your place.

I was just talking in general, we can sit here until the cows come home about how unfair **** is, i had this crap before my hairloss even started (people being horrible etc), but thats just the way it is, i started early aswell, not as bad as you but by the time i was 18,19 my hair receeded to the point it made a island of hair. If people want transplants or whatever then well its their choice, look for ways or whatever, just dont let the worry rule you, you have people who care for you keep your mind on those instead of the haters.

 

[CaptainForehead]

you have people who care for you

Like who?

 

[DannyBoyy]

Like who?

You dont have friends? family? people here? etc etc?

 

[Exodus2011]

getting into 3 relationships and getting ur dick sucked? i wouldn't really call that being an incel basement dweller. let alone being an adam lanza shooter type

ive never been in a relationship let alone touched a woman. THATS an incel basement dweller lifestyle. even i'm not that bad. i've known a couple of guys who were nearing 30 and never had a gf, or even had sex (other than a prostitute)

i mean u cant have been that creepy, if u were getting bjs and relationships. were the girls ugly or damaged?

 

[Notcoolanymore]

ive never been in a relationship let alone touched a woman.

Great so now you not only trump us with the worst type of hair loss, but also by being the ultimate incel?! You are such an elitist.

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i've known a couple of guys who were nearing 30 and never had a gf, or even had sex

I knew a guy in his 40's.

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or even had sex (other than a prostitute)

That still counts!!!

 

[Exodus2011]

lol celibacy means abstaining from sex and marriage so if he is having sex he cant be incel (stands for involuntary celibacy)

anyways im far from the ultimate incel. im just a 22 year old virgin, nothing crazy

 

[Exodus2011]

Involuntary celibacy, at least the way I interpret it, means that you are not able to initiate romantic relationships or have sex even though you want to and are actively trying to. Which is the situation I was in between 18 and 23 years old.

And to answer your previous question: the girls were odd birds but not ugly. Damaged, arguably, but so was I.

lol the way you interpret it? no . . . .there's only one definition and it's objective. its not some subjectively defined thing like a slang word would be.

and that definition is "the state of abstaining from marriage and sexual relations.".

if you had sex then you weren't "abstaining" lol. and on top of it they weren't even ugly? lol

i just dont get it, why would you try to claim a negative thing like being incel, when you aren't incel? lol

it makes real incels like me feel even worse than we already do. i mean, if you are incel than what the heck am i? lol a super incel?

 

[Exodus2011]

That is the definition of active celibacy. Involuntarycelibacy.com, defines it as follows: "Involuntary celibacy, or incel, is the state of a person who has not established an intimate relationship or engaged in sexual intercourse for reasons other than voluntary celibacy or sexual abstinence. The term is used especially for adults who, despite general expectations, have had little to no sexual or romantic experience."

You are really adhering to a super-strict definition of the term, which is your prerogative I guess but I beg to differ. The fact is that despite being in a number of short relationships I did not have intercourse until I was 23. And for a period of some years I actively tried but was unable to initiate any kind of romantic or sexual relationship.

However, I will say your situation is objectively worse than mine, I don't dispute that at all. The circumstances you are in are extremely hard to get out of and based on what you have said I would put forward that there is a not insignificant statistical likelihood that you will remain a virgin for the rest of your life.

yea i'm defining "celibacy", the involuntary part is a given, you are celibate and its not within your control

that place has it wrong though. celibacy means there's no sexual or romantic experience. if there's even a little that means its not celibacy.

but yea at least you got into relationships still. shows you at least have some basic social skills. i don't even care how attractive they are, i have a hard time even in basic social interactions, which like you said will prolly keep me from getting into a relationship my entire life lol.

at the same time, i feel for you man. it must suck to have tried and not got anywhere. i'm too scared to even try lol, i've never tried to get up with a girl or even flirt (other than one time while VERY drunk which i dont really count haha)

its not even baldness thats the biggest issue, its social retardation and anxiety. baldness is just icing on the cake.

 

[Exodus2011]

Yeah, you are in a really bad spot. You are severely disadvantaged in the competition for girls due to your height, ethnicity (Asian guys are the least-wanted in the sexual marketplace), social awkwardness and your early baldness. But objectively speaking, it's not hopeless for you even though it may seem that way. I would say that there is probably a long set of steps you can take to eventually get laid and have a good relationship with someone, though it will probably involve some combination of you lowering your standards (Indonesian girls are nice even if they are not 6-7 white girls), getting way out of your comfort zone, ****ing up really badly and repeatedly in social situations and learning from it over a period of several years.

Oh, and one day people will stop encouraging you like this so seize the day while you still can.

5'6 is really that bad you think? i know i am short, but i never saw it as a big obstacle. a few decent (6-7) white girls showed interest when i had hair, so i always figured height wasn't that big of an issue

but i agree with everything else, altho at least i'm just half indonesian and i come off looking arab or a swarthy southern european. dat genetic recombination lol. but i wouldn't mind an asian girl anyways, they're cute. its just their men have good hair so the hair could be a bigger disadvantage. as long as the girl is somewhat attractive i dont mind. the last thing i will do is lower my standards because of baldness, to me thats admitting defeat and i'd rather stay alone lol. i do believe there's girls who would like you, baldness or not.

really my biggest issue is being socially retarded and anxious. even when i'm calm i feel weird about socializing for some reason, especially in public where i'm super aware of the stupid act we have to put on for day to day life. just wanna go insane and paint my body red, screaming through the streets as a rebellion against it lol.

yea you probably woudn't understand that last part though, you had relationships so i'm sure your social skills are a lot better, and at least decent

 

[Exodus2011]

But you do understand that you are asking for others to lower their standards, though? And that this contradiction will make things very hard for you?

I do understand the last part very well as I have had the same feelings. Not to offend you, but looking back I sort of feel they were a product of my immaturity and very self-absorbed view of the world: I mean, if everyone did what you just described society wouldn't work very well, would it? The "act", as you call it, makes life easier for everyone. A lot of people who are partaking in it, even people you would never suspect, are actually aware of it as well. Part of being a well-functioning member of society, the kind that can make friends, have sex and get kids, is to make the lives of people around you more pleasant in small ways. Engaging in casual, breezy small-talk about the weather and reality TV is one way to do that. There's absolutely no shame in it.

lol of course i do haha. thats why i dont blame them if they don't want to date me. i have never disliked women for not wanting to date bald guys, i dislike baldness itself.

and lol are you trying to subtly put me down or something? before you were telling me i couldn't get girls even when i had hair, now you are calling me immature and self absorbed? haha but yea you can talk with strangers about substantial things though, it doesnt have to be about bull**** 0_0

i mean obviously you have to act somewhat different and i know people are aware of doing it, but at the same time you dont have to be so fake about it. plus all the politically correct bull**** that society does, that part i hate too.

 

[Exodus2011]

I'm not trying to put you down, I'm trying to challenge your worldview and make you rethink your situation. I don't remember having said the last thing and if I said something that could be interpreted that way, that was not the intended meaning.

ok well its just you are pointing out painfully obvious things . . . . .

a stupid crazy fantasy i have has nothing to do with what i expect the average person to behave like lol. why would i think that? the whole point of that it is to be transgressive, also of course i understand that not settling would involve others settling. why wouldn't i?

also i doubt your social anxiety related feelings were as bad as mine, even if you had lost your V at 23 you still had 3 freakin relationships leading up to that lol.