Should I tell

[pratc]

Nice to know it didn't worsen quickly for you.

I suppose there are so many factors and everyone is different. I asked for clarification on that point and he meant that if you start early then you go bald early (with no treatment) which in a way is obvious. He didn't mean the rate of balding was greater in younger people, which is encouraging.

EDIT: H/B did you take the 'other' treatments besides minoxidil?

 

[Guest]

Thanks Falloutboy and JayMan. Glad it seems to be working.

I'm confused about a couple of things. The radio program I listened to had an expert called Philip Kingsley who has a clinic in London. He also writes in The Times newspaper and seems to be well known and an expert. When researching the internet yesterday, it said his clinic was doing research to compare anti androgens and procecia in 2003. I phoned them for the result and this lady said they found procepia didn't work whereas their anti andgrogen lotion did. They also have a treatment that includes minoxidil. This seems to go against other clinics views and people using procepia but it may have been the lady didn't really know.
I also thought that minoxial was mostly for the crown and did maintain hair but was no good for receeding hair.

He could be a snake oil salesman pumping his product up. If they said propecia is crap then they are total idiots. I doubt their medication is FDA approved. The only two fda approved medications in the US are propecia and minoxidil.

So would anyone please clarify the following summary form what I've read recently:

1. Procepia - basically safe, best take a low dose, useful for maintenance in all areas. Possible side effects.

Yes that's good. Propecia can also regrew hair in 66% of patients who used it.

2. Minoxidil - good for the crown area, applied twice daily, no side effects, possible regrowth and maintenance.

minoxidil is good at regrowing the hairline and front of the head too, but the makers of minoxidil can't claim that because it wasn't fda tested on those areas. Still, many users on this site have found success at regrowing their hairline and front as well as the crown from minoxidil.

minoxidil will not maintain your hair at all. It simply regrows hair if it works for you.

How can I explain this better hmm?

Ok let's say that your son loses 50 hairs in a year, just as an example. minoxidil adds 150 hairs that year so he's +100. But minoxidil has not maintained his hair. It didn't stop it from miniaturizing like propecia does. It simply adds more hair to hide the fact that your hair is falling out. That is why minoxidil is best combined with propecia because propecia directly stops or slows the balding process.

3. Anti-androgens - applied like minoxidil. maintenance and regrowth. Which applied first? Are some anti- androgens better than others?

Most anti androgens claim to fame is maintenance just like propecia. I can't remember what people on here have said on whether you should apply the anti androgen before the minoxidil or not. Sorry.

Spironolactone cream, available from minoxidil.com, is a very good anti-androgen.

4. Protein breakfast - apparently new research has found breakfast is important to thinning hair.

It certainly can't hurt but I doubt it helps that much. There are plenty of crack junkies who never eat breakfast but have full heads of hair, and plenty of people who eat as healthy as can be but are still bald as all hell.

Basically, genetics are 99% of your son's problem if he has male pattern baldness. Looking for answers in his diet or stuff like that is masking the real problem which is the genetics.

NOW, to your son's situation:

If your son's hair loss is MINOR at this point then I would take him to see a dermatologist and get him a Proscar prescription. This is the 5 mg tablet of finasteride, Propecia is the 1 mg tablet of finasteride. He can cut the 5 mg tablets into fourths with a pill cutter to save money and take 1.25 mg a day, which is basically the same as 1 mg. It won't be covered by insurance most likely but a year's supply of 365 Propecia pills runs around $700 while a year's supply of around 90 Proscar pills(remember you'd be cutting into fourths) is only around $270. That's a huge savings.

So get the derm to put him on that if you can, and ask him for Proscar since you want to save money. I guess if money is no option then you can get him on Propecia but all the money you save from Proscar can go towards other stuff.

So yes Proscar 1.25 mg per day if you can. I'd hold off on minoxidil for now because it is somewhat of a pain to apply compared to taking a pill and it doesn't stop the balding process. And once you commit to it you have to keep using it or else the hair that it regrows will fall out. It won't make other hairs dependent though.

And the other thing to add is Nizoral 1% shampoo with the active ingredient ketaconazole. This shampoo has mild anti-androgenic properties and is also a mild growth stimulant. It is the ONLY shampoo proven to help with hair loss. You can buy it at your local supermarket or pharmacy or Wal-Mart for 15 dollars for a 7 oz bottle. Have him use a teaspoon in his hair in place of his normal shampoo every 3 DAYS. Only every 3 days. Not every day since it will dry out hs hair. Have him lather it in his hair and let it sit in there for 5 minutes before rinsing. Sounds like a pain but it's only once every 3 days. Then follow it up with any good conditioner that your son likes.

Do those two things and there's like a 90%+ chance that your son won't experience any further balding for awhile.

Also it's important for him to take pictures every month and post them on here so we can monitor his progress. He may experience a tiny bit of shedding in the beginning but if he does then that's a sign that he's a good responder to the drug. The drug finasteride(medical name for propecia, proscar) is maybe just pushing the weaker hairs out that are in the telogen phase and will grow in stronger ones in its place.

I'd hold off on the minoxidil for now though as I said.

Hope this helps.

 

[pratc]

Thanks JayMan for your comprehensive answer and time. I've been looking around the forum and come across your questions when you were new and the answers you've given.

I think I have grasped the basics. One last question. Going back years there was nothing on the market that worked, so when approx. did people have the fortunate access to these big three that have some success - just for interest sake?

Thanks

 

[Guest]

ne last question. Going back years there was nothing on the market that worked, so when approx. did people have the fortunate access to these big three that have some success - just for interest sake?

Thanks

You're welcome.

Minoxidil was developed in the 1980s for hair loss. It originally came out in a 2% solution and then the 5% extra strength solution was developed.

Nizoral's active ingredient as i said is ketoconazole and that was discovered in 1976 and released in the 1980s.

Finasteride the active ingredient in both Propecia and Proscar, was originally approved by the FDA in 1992 in a 5 mg tablet form as a treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia(BPH for short). The sponsor of the studies had noted that 1 mg of finasteride had positive effects and could regrow hair in men with pattern hair loss. So in 1997, finasteride was approved by the FDA to treat hair loss.

On June 19, 2006, Merck's patents on Proscar and Propecia expired and the FDA approved a first-time generic formulation for finasteride 5 mg tablets. I am currently getting these tablets from a US pharmacy and cutting them into fourths. The generic is a bit cheaper than the Merck brand.

Hope this answers your questions.

 

[pratc]

JayMan, you knowledge is impressive. Thanks.

I'm a bit surprised it's about 20 years ago and I had no idea there were products that far back because I had not heard anyone talking about them or saying they had success.

Edit: So presumably any long term side effects would now be known if they have been around so long.

 

[Guest]

JayMan, you knowledge is impressive. Thanks.

I'm a bit surprised it's about 20 years ago and I had no idea there were products that far back because I had not heard anyone talking about them or saying they had success.

Edit: So presumably any long term side effects would now be known if they have been around so long.

Yes presumably. Finasteride has been used for almost 15 years now.

 

[pratc]

Have any of you any comments on this - an extract from a newspaper about 8 months ago? Has it been discredited now?


"Soy
Last year, a team of scientists at Colorado State University discovered that equol, a little-known molecule created in the intestine when soy is digested, is a natural and powerful blocker of dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a potent male hormone that shrinks hair follicles, and is involved in male pattern baldness. The study, published in the journal Biology of Reproduction, said that equol "puts handcuffs on DHT" to prevent it from causing hair loss".

 

[pratc]

Chose the right moment to tell him today. He didn't know about the thinning. As people suggested (thanks) we did the correct thing. He said, "why didn't you tell me earlier". He said he would like to try to do something about it, if possible, so we are going to make an appointment to see a respected trichologist - not the one below (or may still try and source substances ourselves).

Coincidently, I visited my Dr. today (unrelated) and asked his advice. He said as far as he was concerned he has not seen evidence of anything working and he should know because he is half bald now and only 30 years old. I phoned my nearest trichologist 70 miles away who is in a private hospital, and he thought topical treatments did not work - lack of absorbtion. These kind of statements confuse me. I told them there is evidence ...

 

[biglemoncoke]

the big 3s are the only things that are working, but its not garantee that it will totally stop hairloss, u will be happy to get regrowth. there is no known cure yet.

 

[Fallout Boy]

thats good that your son took it the right way and now wants to do something about it. But in my opinion i wouldn't go to a trichologist. I would make an apointment with your local dermatoligist he can talk to you about some stuff and give you a script for Propecia (finasteride) if thats that you decided to do..otherwise you can order generic finasteride from an online pharmacy if you think propecia is too much money.

You can read up more on Finasteride at http://www.propecia.com if you know little about it. But mainly your sons three options are

"The big 3"

Minoxidil (Rogaine)

Finasteride (Propecia)

Nizoral Shampoo

 

[Guest]

yes pratc,

i would stay far away from trichologists. a lot of them are snake oil salesmen who try to convince you that your hair loss is because of a nutritional issue or something and try to sell your their solutions.

the bestthing you could do would be to take your son to a respected dermatalogist in your area- the MD is key. he can map out your son's hair loss and kind of predict where it will go based on the areas of thinning and your family's genetic history. he can also write you the proscar script which a trichologist cannot! so to get that prescription the trichologist would have to refer you to an MD anyway. so go straight to the source, my man. straight to a respected physician who won't try to push his products on you.

good luck.

 

[pratc]

Just an update. The regime we've chosen is:

1. Proxiphen applied at night. btw excellent delivery from Texas to the UK - only 7 days. Proxiphen has minoxidil and spironolactone plus other goodies. A free bottle of nano was also sent.

2. Propecia to start then Proscar (cheaper). Only trying threequarter dose to see if side effects (body mass isn't large). Again, delivery in 7 days (Inhousepharmacy)

3. Nizoral shampoo every 3 days. Local chemist.

4. Still to be delivered are topical dutasteride with liposome and GTE with liposome. Not certain how often these will be applied and order with Proxiphen. I contacted Dr Proctor and he said order didn't matter.


Well, we will see if there is any effect by 5 or 6 months time - good or bad!

 

[Strat54]

Hi pratc

I think it’s great what you’re doing to help your son, but IMHO, I think it might be a little to much for 20 year old boy who’s just started thinning, to throw in so many topicals at one time.

I think that even the “Big 3†might be too much.

Maybe you could just start with Propecia / Proscar and Nizoral and see if that works, and if it doesn’t work then add Proxiphen or minoxidil, and so on.

Also, bare in mind, that to apply three topicals it’s hard to keep up for some people, some can’t even stand to apply one.

Maybe your son doesn’t realize what he’s getting into.
Keep in mind that this meds are for long term use.

Good luck.

 

[pratc]

Yes, agreed it may be too much.

I wanted proxiphen because it is only applied once in the day and the one application incorporates many potentially useful ingredients. Then I thought propecia is a must (from doing as quick sketch graph, I think a threequarter dose is about 95% as effective as the full 1mg). Then of course reading the forum you feel you should also have A then B ...

I would say the vertex has worsened over the last say 6 weeks and with a wait of about 5 months to see if things are working, this has contributed to the 'overkill' of treatments. The liposome GTE sound interesting. I don't think the dutasteride liposome will be used in the near future.

Thanks for you advice Strat54

 

[Guest]

Pratc, glad to see that proctor sent a free bottle of Nano for you. How is your son's battle going?

I think you should consider incorporating Nano full time into your son's regimen if you haven't already. You could have him use it on the 5 days a week that he isn't using Nizoral, like I do. I use Nizoral Mondays and Thursdays and I use Nano the other 5 days of the week. It could very well help your son regrow even more hair on top of the proxiphen.

 

[pratc]

Hi JayMan.
Nothing positive or negative to report at the moment. He is away at univerisity so I wont see him till Christmas time. He didn't take the nano away with him - just the prox. procepia and nizoral.
He hasn't had side effects but as I mentioned he is only taking about threequarters of 1mg of propecia. Thanks for your early advice about 2 months ago.

 

[Thinneritgoes!]

1. Proxiphen applied at night. btw excellent delivery from Texas to the UK - only 7 days. Proxiphen has minoxidil and spironolactone plus other goodies. A free bottle of nano was also sent.

hehe... goodies...

 

[jimjohn]

i would def tell him. my mom was also the first to notice my balding, she would keep telling me ur losing hair. much better to know about it like that first i think.

 

[Rutt]

f*****g tell him. It's your job

What if he had cancer? Would you let him live in the dark?

If you don't tell him, you better f*****g slip finasteride into his food or something.

 

[Shift]

I think he already told him. It's been five years till now :whistle: