Shutting Down Th2 Cytokines Entirely

[Kornel]

I dont know to be honest. I think the vehicle is really important with cetirizine and of course you need to try it for six months. I imagine that if you wanted to take it orally you might need to take a much higher dosage than the recommended. Like Seti.
Topically i use it 2% and it helps. I dissolve 240mg of cet powder in 6ml distilled water. I then slowly add 2ml PG and about 4ml of neogenic capsule. This is the current vehicle i am using and it works well. Not greasy at all. Batches only last 4 to 5 days which is good as apparently cetirizine can degraded in ethanol.

What does ceti do for you? How long have you been using it?

 

[kawnshawn]

Montelukast is well known to cause hair loss ...

Cetirizine ... I tried it orally and then topically for a while, didn't do a sh*t. 5mg twice a day, 2.5% (in water+10%pg). But what's the best ? Orally or topically ? 5mg, 10mg, 20mg, more ? 5% 10% 20% ... ?

Really? All I can find is a handful of comments online from just women who have taken it.

 

[Hobo hair]

I hope you'll have success with your new regimen. Please keep us updated!

By the way, I don't know how much useful zinc pyrithione is for you but I'd consider substituting it for something else. I haven't read anything that's convinced me that the stuff is actually beneficial for Androgenetic Alopecia. The couple of times I tried it, that crap burned like napalm after only a few seconds of application. Maybe it's because I'm very susceptible to this kind of effect: "The topical antimicrobial zinc pyrithione is a heat shock response inducer that causes DNA damage and PARP-dependent energy crisis in human skin cells".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866994/

Yea, everyone has an opinion.....I had horrible seborrhea dermatitis last summer. Gross hairloss. I started using a Zinc anti dandruff shampoo. My hair has flourished since then and fallout seems to be minimal. I do not know of the mechanism except the hair yeast (fungus) malassezia does cause inflammation and Zinc is suppose to be "anti dht". No have not regrown any hair but seems like my hair loss is minimal.
I will use Zinc Pyrithione and other antidandruff shampoos until I find a negative about using them.

 

[Dennis Garber]

Oh also taking aspirin, caffeine and P5P tablets. Reducing Pgd2 and prolactin.
Seti has no sides for me. But without finasteride I simply don’t think it is enough.

Aspirin and caffeine are supposed to cause hair loss. I know aspirin thins my hair.

 

[Hobo hair]

I hope you'll have success with your new regimen. Please keep us updated!

By the way, I don't know how much useful zinc pyrithione is for you but I'd consider substituting it for something else. I haven't read anything that's convinced me that the stuff is actually beneficial for Androgenetic Alopecia. The couple of times I tried it, that crap burned like napalm after only a few seconds of application. Maybe it's because I'm very susceptible to this kind of effect: "The topical antimicrobial zinc pyrithione is a heat shock response inducer that causes DNA damage and PARP-dependent energy crisis in human skin cells".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866994/

Yea, good post on Zinc Py. I use it weekly for dandruff and no hair problems that I am aware of. Genotoxicity and cytotoxicity it may be but not sure it has affected my hair growth negatively. I believe Zinc has some other properties such as anti DHT. I will continue to use but won't over do it.

 

[Giiizmo]

Yea, everyone has an opinion.....I had horrible seborrhea dermatitis last summer. Gross hairloss. I started using a Zinc anti dandruff shampoo. My hair has flourished since then and fallout seems to be minimal. I do not know of the mechanism except the hair yeast (fungus) malassezia does cause inflammation and Zinc is suppose to be "anti dht". No have not regrown any hair but seems like my hair loss is minimal.
I will use Zinc Pyrithione and other antidandruff shampoos until I find a negative about using them.

You could give ketoconazole (Nizoral) a try if you want. It's used for the same purpose as zinc pyrithione and supposedly also has some mild anti-androgenic properties although it has a completely different method of action.

As with all azole antifungal agents, ketoconazole works principally by inhibiting the enzyme cytochrome P450 14α-demethylase (CYP51A1).[ [...] Second, ketoconazole is an androgen receptor antagonist, competing with androgens such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) for binding to the androgen receptor. This effect is thought to be quite weak however, even with high oral doses of ketoconazole.[33] [...]

Compared to:

Its antifungal effect is thought to derive from its ability to disrupt membrane transport by blocking the proton pump that energizes the transport mechanism.[7]

Although if you're having good results with zinc pyrithione you may want to keep using it.

 

[Georgie]

Well you can buy Montelukast very cheaply on alldaychemist. I have my doubts about it given that this is the first i've heard of it. If there're willing guinea pigs amongst us that'd be great.

 

[Georgie]

also, from MD Junction:
https://www.mdjunction.com/forums/a...al-support/11234513-singulair-and-hair-growth
Strange happenings in our household regarding hair growth and there have only been two changes that we can pinpoint in my husband's life -- the change to a plant-based diet and the addition of Singulair to his med list.

My husband has been going bald for years. He had the typical receding hairline that formed into a horseshoe ring of hair with tuft of hair "island" near the front of his head. He was "shiny" bald in the areas that had no hair.

Since he has so little hair, and I can't screw it up too much, usually I just run clippers over his head. I can't do any worse than someone at a salon, and it saves us a bundle of cash. I had been noticing a strange phenomenon over several months that I thought I was imagining. In the area of "shiny baldness", my husband was growing downy fine hair. One day I finally said to him, "This is CRAZY! You are REGROWING hair!" It has really become apparent that his hair IS regrowing. It is not thick and luxurious by any stretch of the imagination, but it IS hair and it IS growing in.

There has only been two changes in his "routine" that we can come up with, the change in diet and the addition of Singulair. I'm leaning toward the diet, but my husband thought possibly it was a change in meds. Well, other than the addition of Singulair, all of his meds are the same as before, with the exception that a few are now at lower doses. So, the question remains, what is causing the hair regrowth?

 

[Georgie]

And here's a long thread where a bunch of only women strangely, talk about how it decimated their hair

http://www.medications.com/singulair/22194

 

[Georgie]

sh*t ... I wanted to try Montelukast, even if I heard of bad experiences, now ... I don't know. It could make things really worse :/

I’ve seen mostly people saying that it ruined their hair

 

[itchymadscalp]

@Georgie : Ok ... I will try, just to stop itchy scalp :/

 

[Vinc2097]

But thats the thing based on current information it is not really a guess there are a number of studies showing it induces the release of pge2. Not to mention a specific study for hairloss which demonstrated that it is effective. The only counter evidence is someone saying they once recall seeing a study that said it reduces pge2.

oh so i should not worry to much about it .. are you trying ceti yourself ?

 

[strandman]

this was posted on another forum

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Leukotriene E4 activates human Th2 cells for exaggerated pro-inflammatory cytokine production in response to PGD2


We found that cysLTs markedly potentiated pro-inflammatory cytokine production from human Th2 cells in response to PGD2. The potency of LTE4 in the enhancing effect was significantly higher than that of LTD4 or LTC4 and this enhancing effect of LTE4 was inhibited by montelukast. Although the CRTH2 antagonist TM30089 alone substantially inhibited IL-13 production in response to both exogenous and endogenous PGD2 and LTE4, a combination of TM30089 and montelukast was required to completely inhibit the response.

In other words, montelukast/zafirlukast and a CRTH2 antagonist is just about one of the most nuclear synergies you can get in regards to male pattern baldness. Add in an anti-androgen, and you've essentially shut down the entire male pattern baldness process.

I'm currently on TM, montelukast dutasteride and pyrithone zinc shampoo, and my hair has never felt this good and shedded the least since before I started thinning or receding ever.

I'm also using taking CLA 10,12 rally daily and dermastamping in some of the stuff once or twice a month, and the sparse hairs in front of my transplanted hairline have gone fully terminal. At this point it's hard to distinguish between the the native and transplanted hair in that are, except the native hairs have had less time to thrive in the anagen phase and reach the same length as the transplanted ones.

Would cutting off PGD2 with Seti negate the need for a CRTH2 antagonist?

 

[westonci]

Would cutting off PGD2 with Seti negate the need for a CRTH2 antagonist?

Seti doesnt cut or block PGD2. It competes for the CRTH2 receptor

 

[strandman]

Seti doesnt cut or block PGD2. It competes for the CRTH2 receptor

Do you know if high dose sulfasalazine is as effective as Seti at competing with the CRTH2 receptor?