Skin Needling

[mykal_P]

I just got my dermroller and started using it yesterday. It's a .5mm one and I think i need a .75mm or 1.0mm type. It did not draw any blood even after pushing on it a bit. Not that i'm trying to achieve that but i think a bit deeper might work a bit better on my scalp. Seeing as they are only 10$ on ebay you cant go wrong picking one up, they are cheap. I also think the lack of success for this method is due to people not using the right size for they're particular scalp, and some scalps being better responders than others. Josephs topical I think also maximized his treatments, it was not needling alone.

 

[Joey Ramone]

What topical? I could never work it out.

 

[mykal_P]

What topical? I could never work it out.

Me either, he lists some ingredients on page 19 but no amounts for how much of each thing.

My topical now includes: Glisodin, orotic acid, carnosine, green tea extract, grape seed extract, bioperine, melatonin, caffeine, methylcobalmin, msm, nattozimes, vitamin D3 and a mixed vitamin E, and obviously minoxidil. I'm also looking for a better vasodilator than niacin, perhaps arginine, gingko, or vinopectine.

if that helps any

 

[Joey Ramone]

Definitely doesn't.

 

[BrightonBaldy]

Would skin needling make a topical only regime effective?

 

[Joey Ramone]

Joseph,

You might be interested in having a read through Dr Yechiel's article "Dynamic Synergy as an Approach to Combining Cosmeceuticals".

http://www.topical-formulations.com/topical/200807/dynamic-synergy.htm

You seem to be experimenting with different topical formulations all the time. Maybe the switching around of ingredients itself has benefited your hair. It's food for thought.

Dr Yechiel's company Elsom also has a formulator where they put your selected ingredients together into a topical base for you. The formulator website is here.

From memory, you were mixing the ingredients in powder form straight into your minoxidil. I tried replicating this once but failed miserably and just ended up with a gooey mess of wasted ingredients. I'm going to start playing around with topicals through the formula though, once I work what I want in it.

For everyone else, I just bought a 1 mm derma roller off ebay so will start as soon it arrives and let you know how it goes. It only ended up being $20 Aus incl shipping and it came with a case and disinfectant gunk. Pretty stoked.

 

[BrightonBaldy]

no updates?

 

[BrightonBaldy]

why is it the case that even though hundreds of guys all over the net have apparently taken up skin needling there isnt a single before-after pic OR anybody slating dermarollers?

can they kill people?

 

[BrightonBaldy]

Its probably a load of rubbish, any minor victories on here normally get raved about, so we can withdraw our conclusions from the silence.

RIP needle-dudes

 

[BrightonBaldy]

Granted- there is a remote chance that those who try it dont come back because it works, it just seems strange to me that theres never any picturers or results.

I have one here that I dont use, I read that absorbing more minoxidil than normal will give me heart problems, I need to know what the chances are!

 

[xxenergyxx]

@BrightonBaldy: It's quite simple...just don't apply minoxidil right after you used dermaroller, or , if you prefer, use something else instead of minoxidil.
For example: ialuronic acid+dermaroller
lauric and miristic acid + dermaroller
canapa oil + dermaroller
emu oil + dermaroller
and so on...

 

[joseph49853]

Update:
May-June '09 - Massive shed (vertex and some temples) due to topical DIM :shock:
July '09 - Became discouraged, stopped all topicals, at this time only using nizoral shampoo, minoxidil and light mostly pain-free needling.
November '09 - started applying nizoral/oil mixture 3x a week. Limited success.
February '09 - resumed synergistic topicals with added Forslean, restarted PEMF. The following week resumed super-heavy needling, as to where bleeding was evident and pain and soreness were felt the following day... in hopes of once again shocking the scalp into growth.
March '10 - dropped nix/oil mixture, started micanozole nitrate 2%.

Current regimen:
1-2x a week vigorous heavy needling, broken up into 3 zones, 1 zone a day.
7x a week minoxidil, once a day, topical mixture... refrig to avoid oxidation
2x a week, micanozole nitrate 2% (Dermafungal)
6-8 hours of PEMF weekly, whenever at my computer

The results (pictures taken in identical regions of the vertex):

First picture taken on Feb 9th 2010, second picture taken April 22nd 2010

click this link for larger image

 

[xxenergyxx]

Dear Joseph, when you talk about heavy needling what size of needle are you talking about?

and, another question: after heavy needling what you apply on your scalp?

last question: what you think it's the most effective substance in your treatment?

Thanks a lot!

 

[joseph49853]

Dear Joseph, when you talk about heavy needling what size of needle are you talking about?

and, another question: after heavy needling what you apply on your scalp?

last question: what you think it's the most effective substance in your treatment?

Thanks a lot!

I'm currently using a 1mm derma needle knock-off plastic cheapie from eBay. I'm thinking of going a little longer and have a 1.5mm on order. Very important to keep the roller sterilized using either peroxide or alcohol. Although alcohol can dry out/crack the plastic after being immersed for more than a few days.

To me heavy needling means pressing hard, lifting and repeating over the same area for 10-20x passes. To offset the pain, I acclimate my scalp with a few numbing light passes. Light needling in general is possibly best for maintaining existing hairs than actually growing new ones.

As for the most effective topical supplements for hair growth, that's a tough one. Everyone has different pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics. Also consider that some topicals only work well in combination and have a general synergistic/additive effect.

There are topicals that can elongate the anagen phase, reduce sebum, and scalp inflammation, or even create new vellus which might even go terminal. Although some supplements are too dulling (zinc, niacin) smelly ( rosemary extract) staining (curcumin, grape seed extract) or oxidize too readily (tea extract, rosemary, forskolin) for easy topical use.

For starters, I would recommend a small amount of bioperine (or cayenne,) grape seed extract, apple polythenols, black tea extract or green tea extract, Glisodin, carnosine, soy isoflavones, quercetin, melatonin. I'm still searching for the perfect balance.

In some people adding caffeine or forskolin to increase cyclic amp creates great results, in others it has the opposite effect... works great for me though.

BTW, I buy my bulk powders at beyondacenturyonline.com and Vitacost and/or Swanson for capped supplements. A 1 percent solution in 60ml (2oz) of minoxidil would contain exactly one gram of substance.

Good luck.

 

[RP3X]

Would this work at the front of the head for hair loss?

Ive always thought applying rogain foam was pointless surely the skins got many protective layers, skin needling at least in my mind would get around that....

 

[joseph49853]

Would this work at the front of the head for hair loss?

Ive always thought applying rogain foam was pointless surely the skins got many protective layers, skin needling at least in my mind would get around that....

I had grown back almost my entire juvenile hairline using needling. And it most certainly will help in the area of topical penetration and increasing efficacy.... maybe a little bit too much, so be careful.

 

[Guest]

still want to see some pictures....

 

[rfaust]

Joseph,

Just wanted to drop by and thank you for your work, and sharing what you've found so far. It's good to see someone exploring the possibilities outside of the classic FDA-approved treatments. As someone who outright refuses to touch any hormone-affecting treatments, scalp needling interests me greatly and I will be trying this in the very near future.

 

[BrightonBaldy]

I have alot to learn about adding anything to minoxidil!

Interesting stuff Joseph, I used my dermaroller for the first time tonight and then washed my hair with nizoral, theres no question whatsoever theres greater penetration as you can feel the difference instantly.

I've now applied my Regaine and again it feels different, I want to add some of the products you say work for you but I've no idea where to look or what I need.

I've a nw1 hairline and no bald areas (yet), just major thinning in the horse shoe pattern, I need to give the remaining hair a boost and grow anything I can, without destroying the hair I have.

My hairs buzzed down so anything is easily applied.

 

[KeepTheHair]

Do I have to use minoxidil with this? I am getting minoxidil blood pressure(low) side effects and i dont think using minoxidil with a derma roller is a good idea for me. I do want to try it though.

Will it work without applying topicals? Also, what other topicals can I use?

Any updates guys?

Thanks