Slartibartfast's Story

[DeezNuts]

dutasteride

I am in the same boat. Have tried Propecia, but it didn't really do much. Moved to dutasteride about 4 months ago. Not a noticable effect, but added minoxidil 12% recently and now I am shedding like crazy AND have lost a bit in the temples from dutasteride. I am also losing it and am a diffuse thinner with a bit of temporal recession. I am hoping(praying) this shed is a good thing, and am willing to tough it out at least to the end of the calendar year. I think that by the 6th month I should see SOME sign to encourage me to continue.

Let's all hope that something works!

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hi Deez, welcome to the dutasteride user's club - I hope your stay will be a pleasant one.

Now, around the 3 to 4 month mark does seem to be the typical time to start shedding from dutasteride - presumably due to how long it takes to build-up in your system - so you're bang on schedule with that.

I haven't come across this 12% minoxidil though, did you mean to type 2% and just catch the 1, or are you using some super strong solution like Dr Lee's Xandrox? Whichever it is you should be thinking of giving your treatment at least a full year before judging it, you may see some positive signs by the 6th month but it's not all over if you don't.

As an example of how results can still occur long after 6 months: I used finasteride for 20 months, dutasteride every 2nd day for 15 and then, 4 - 5 weeks into taking dutasteride daily, I saw some small, slightly pigmented hairs on a part of my left temple that has been hairless since before I started any treatment. So don't give up too soon.

Slarti

 

[Slartibartfast]

Recently a few members have PM'd me to ask either about Dutasteride's potential side effects or for advice - as they themselves are experiencing an unexpected consequence of taking the drug. Invariably the main topic of discussion centres on a feeling of dizzy/light-headedness (for want of a technical phrase) or, at its most extreme, suffering from actual headaches. Since I've been on a daily dose for approx. 3.5 months, and have gone through the exact same phenomenon, this seems a sensible time to post my personal account of this.

The light-headedness began within two weeks of changing to a daily dose. Typically it would be noticeable 2.5 to 3 hours after dosing and persist for the next several hours - with its intensity fading during this period. This was a tolerable side effect but, sometime round the 6 week mark, it was replaced with a non-specific headache.

A dull, nagging, affair reminiscent of one from a very, very, mild hangover or, indeed, slight dehydration, which also kicked in about 3 hours after swallowing the dutasteride. The obvious counter to this seemed to be an increase in the amount of water I drank, so I diligently consumed an extra glass or two per day. I'm happy to say that after a week of this the headaches had subsided and I was back to that good old feeling of light-headedness.

Up until two weeks ago that effect remained fairly constant but I then noticed that both its duration and intensity were diminishing and today, after 101 daily doses, I experienced no noticeable side effects after taking Dutasteride.

Next week I'll put up a post on my hair's progress, as it's been two months since my last update, and somebody out there might find my ramblings useful.

Slarti

 

[Slartibartfast]

The more observant amongst you have no doubt realized that it has taken me a month, rather than the one week I promised/threatened in my last post, to get round to updating this thread. Apologies for my laxity but, in my defence, I can assure you that I have simply had nothing of interest to report vis-a-vis my hair (though admittedly that doesn't usually stop me). You may well conclude, by dint of me posting this now, that I have something of startling importance to impart but, alas, you would be wrong. All I can offer is a modest selection of mildly interesting observations (MIO) and this interminable preamble, designed solely to pad out the text.

MIO#1: As I gallop past the four month mark of taking a daily dose of Dutasteride (132 days to be exact) I am thrilled to say that the feeling of light-headedness, discussed in my previous post, has not returned. That I have been free of this unexpected side effect for a full month comes as a great relief, as I could not have continued on with this medication otherwise. As determined as I am to improve, or at least maintain, my hair, it does not extend to the point where my clarity of thought is compromised - that's what Vodka was invented for.

MIO#2: Shedding, or rather the lack of it. Having gone up from a bi-daily to a daily dose in mid-August I had become inured to the idea that this Christmas season would be ushered in with a magnificent shed - and I don't mean the ill-advised gift of a two storey, marble clad, centrally heated hut for the lawnmower. Instead I have had 4+ months with very little change in my hair's overall appearance - if anything there has been a very slight improvement, but it's hard to be sure.

MIO#3: Not for the first time during the early stages of a new treatment I have begun to see an increase in the number of short, fine hairs within the frontal region. In the past these have invariably failed to develop into the mature hairs we all desire, turning out to be either hairs in the process of miniaturization, or previously dormant follicles regaining just enough strength to send up only these weak hairs - as the DHT impeding their growth is lowered but, presumably, by an insufficient amount for full function to be regained. But, being an eternal optimist (and having the DHT reduction of a full dutasteride dosage on my side), I believe that this time they will continue to grow until my hairline is as thick as the rest of my hair.

Merry Christmas and a happy, and prosperous, New Year to all.

Slarti

 

[Thinning1]

Hi all,

Thanks for the constant updates. Its good to hear and see more people talking about dutasteride and its longer term effects. I've been on it for around 4 months now, but am only taking it every 2nd day, and still taking propecia each other day. I've had a massive shed these last couple of weeks but am hoping that this is a good sign as lots of people who have long term success with dutasteride claim to have an early on shed.

Have a good xmas guys,

 

[raider]

Dutasteride results / feedback

Hey everyone (Esp Slart....),

Great to see so many people trying Dutasteride. Even better to hear of the Swiss suppliers prices - I will def be sending him an Email shortly.

I haven't got a great story to tell, but so far:

- took Propecia (prescribed by Belgravia centre London, very expensive!!!) for 10 months with no effects.

- This was combined with Minoxidil 5% and then 12% (yes 12%) for 4 months for the temple areas.

- The only difference was a few selected baby hairs around the temple areas. These failed to develop and really haven't become more established in the last 4 months at all.

- With all the Dutasteride hype, and the fact that its actually cheaper that Propecia in the UK from Belgravia centre, I have been taking .5 mg daily dosage of Dutasteride since 21 November, so only 6 weeks worth so far.

I have noticed some shedding but nothing extreme as yet.

Following my reading on this site pertaining to recommended dosage options, I am as of this evening increasing to 1.5 mg per day. I can, I think!, afford to do this if I use the Swiss supplier. This will now be combined with 5% Rogaine which arrived today.

If anyone has any thoughts on this I would greatly appreciate any advice.

I will keep you informed.

Regards,
raider
Ps. In Fairness, I have, over the last yr, noticed a slight improvement in coverage/thickeness of hair around the crown.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Salutations, my follicularly challenged brethren. It seems an age since I last visited this site, back, as it was, before the excesses of the Christmas and New Year festivities took their toll, so my apologies for the laxness of my responses to any posts or PM's directed my way.

Thinning1 - Hi there, hope you had a good Christmas too. You sound fairly relaxed about the shedding which, at the 3 to 4 month mark, has kicked in at a time when many dutasteride users experience a similar loss. I am sure the shedding will peter out over the next few weeks (if it hasn't already) and then your follicles can get started on producing some new hairs.

Raider - Howdy. What nice people at the Belgravia centre, relieving you of your hard-earned money for what is a very cheap drug (especially if you quarter Proscar) - did they make your Christmas card list?

There's that 12% minoxidil again, I guess that it must be part of the Belgravia package of treatment as I haven't come across it myself. As far as a 1.5mg dose of dutasteride goes I would suggest (from my non-scientific background) that the difference in DHT reduction between it and a .5mg dose would be minimal. I can see an argument for taking a higher dose when starting this medication to foreshorten the accretion of it in your system but, by the 6 week mark, you are already half way through this process. Additionally, as this is such a new drug I'd be inclined towards as low a dose as possible, just to be on the safe side.

Slarti

 

[raider]

Slarti's post!

Hi There All,

Slarti - thanks for your reply Post! You are right, the Belgravia people are very very expensive. I think Propecia from there cost aboout £1000 p.a.! At the start of my hair loss investigation I had little knowledge of medications and treatments so opted for somewhere that seemed to have experience in handing these medications. Now I have some Data and Information, I can ( I Think) take my own course and keep researching best methods going forward.

Your advice on dutasteride. is interesting. I guess I should go for around 6 weeks of 3 pills per day and then return to the 1 pill per day dosage...That should do it..


Having met with Santa at the Belgravia centre this week they have recommended I opt for the 12.5% minoxidil. I am tempted to do this as a last attempt to use the Belgravias advice. Does anyone know where I can purchase this online or anywhere at a reasonable price? They have quoted £170 for 3 months dosage which is quite excessive!!!!


Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hi Raider, if you take a look at this;

http://www.hairsite2.com/images/dutas_analysis.jpg

you can see from the pink line that a 1.5mg dose ratchets up the level of Dutasteride in your system extremely quickly. If you look at where your dutasteride (ng/ml) levels are, after what must be almost 50 days of a .5mg dose, you can see that there is not far to go before your levels start to plateau. If you have already started on a 1.5mg dose I'd suggest that just one week of the high dosage would suffice, then, as you said, get back onto one pill per day.

Personally I wouldn't hand over any more money to the nice people at the Belgravia centre. Stick with the 5% minoxidil, twice a day if poss. and hopefully the combination of it and the extra DHT reduction from dutasteride will kickstart those follicles into action - but it could take a year for results, so be patient

Slarti

 

[raider]

update

Slarti at al,

It has been a couple of weeks now since my first postings. My update is not going to be lenghty as there has not been a substantial change..

I have now come off the 3 (1.5mg) dosage of dutasteride per day (as per Slartis comments in your last memo) and returned to one per day of this morning. Additionally, further treatment includes: Minoxidil (5% Rogaine), usual vitamins for general wellbeing, twice weekly usage of Nixoral shampoo which is supposedly Scalp DHT inhibiting & also a great cleanser.

The only query I have at the moment related to the application of minoxidil. Do you need to ensure that it is evenly spread across the scalp or is it better to concentrate the application to the worst zones (the Temples in my case!)? Any advice greatly appreciated. I am sure I have previously read that you can just apply all over and that the scalp will naturally absorb the chemical and have effect at all points across the entire scalp, but would appreciate some guidance on this.. Any one?!!! (thank u!)

I am planning to add Dr Lee's Xandrox 15% to my programme in February but this hasn't yet arrived. I paid around 85dollars online. Following various correspondence with Dr Lee I am hopeful that this could be helpful around the Temple area - perhaps after 3/4 months of use I could see some new baby hairs coming through....

Hope all is well with u Slarti & look forward to updates. Seen any more baby hairs coming through mate?

 

[raider]

Update

Hi Slarti, everyone else & Web boffins such as myself!!!,

I thought I'd write a brief update to keep you informed of my progress since switching to Adovart dutasteride on the 21 November '04.

As always, I am cautious of posting any "false or inaccurate Information" so won't be overly optimistic with the developments so far...

At week ten, I have so far experienced a marginal increase in shedding. These are mainly very fine hairs that I have noticed coming out when stying or brushing through hair.. It has not been a terrible shed, but certainly noticeable.

In terms of side affects, I have experiened nothing atall. (Bear in mind that I came off 13 months propecia, which also gave me no side affects).

Having looked for signs of new growth I can confirm that I do have some fine (but quite strong feeling) little hairs immediately at the crown of my head. This is the zone where I would say I have a "thin" area at the back - the rest of the back is completely covered and quite thick.

At the temples ( my problem area ), the shedding has been noticeable. I guess this is both good and bad as it may Indicate that the chemical reaction is taking place so hopefully this could yield new, stronger re-growth. On the left temple, the shed has been slightly worse. On the Right temple there are literally a "Few" very very fine hairs that seem to have sproutted out to about 7mm long. These are clearly in early stages, but seem to give reason for continuing the treatment and hoping for more results going forward.

Apart from that, I have avoided washing the hair too much and generally stayed in the gym most weekends!

- only taking one adovart pill per day now, following the initial "load up" period of 3 per day.

- rogaine in morning & Xandrox 15 in eve.

Cheers,
Gavin

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hi Gavin (aka raider),

Well you're already at the 10 week milestone so that's one less of the many, purely psychological, points in time that we must pass through en route to defeating this accursed male pattern baldness. I'm just under two weeks off the 6 month marker myself, and so will be updating this thread with my progress soon.

You asked about where to apply minoxidil. My advice is to restrict usage to those areas that have suffered the greatest loss (like your temples), rather than getting drawn into applying it over an ever increasing proportion of the scalp. Apart from minoxidil being an inconvenience to apply, especially in the mornings, you have also not long begun on Dutasteride. I'm sure that most, if not all, of the experienced hair loss combatants on this site would recommend changing only one treatment at a time - so you can accurately judge its efficacy.

Now that's great news if you already have some new growth coming in on the crown. This is an area of my head that, at one stage, seemed like it would have a permanent bald spot, but now looks like it's never been troubled with male pattern baldness. Some of that gain was down to finasteride, but it was when I was on dutasteride every other day that it really closed up - it's improved further since upping my dose - so you should have confidence in it working for you. Hopefully this applies to the temples as well, maybe it will just take longer.

Anyway, as I said I'll update in about a fortnight, so bye for now.

Slarti

 

[Slartibartfast]

Well I've finally made it to the half year mark and although I can't yet give a definitive yay or nay on whether Dutasteride will furnish me with the thick hairline I desire, I do have some broadly positive changes to report.

Just for a change I'll start with the front, which I class as roughly the first two inches of hair - that's 5cm for all you metric folk, and which is still quite comfortably the worst section of my hair. But it is also the area with the highest proliferation of (what I hope are) new hairs.

You probably all know the sort of hairs I'm talking about, they start off as short, thin, lightly pigmented, and are only visible when your head is right up near the mirror with the light shining from a particular angle. Well anyway, I can easily count a few dozen of these in the front quarter inch of my hair, but what's more encouraging is that for once they seem to be progressing past this initial stage and actually gaining in stature. Though their ultimate length, thickness, etc remains the big unanswered question.

Regrowth is also apparent within the rest of the frontal region where, if anything, the new hairs are more developed but fewer in number the further back you go - not surprising considering my hair count is already considerably higher away from the very front. The rest of my hair is also improving - so much so that my hairdresser commented on how thick the hair on the top and back of my head is. Unfortunately this thickening has heralded the return of the wavy hair that was the bain of my youthful attempts to grow a longer style back in the early to mid 90's. If only I'd realized that the loss of these waves, when I was 20/21, were an early sign of male pattern baldness I could have had an extra couple of years of worry about baldness.

That's enough waffle for one day, I'll update in another month or so.

Best of luck to you,
Slarti

 

[raider]

Slarti,

That's great news mate. So you have some new hairs of a decent quantity coming through, and they seem to be developing at a reasonable rate - what a result after 6 months.

I look forward to achieving a similar result hopefully!!

Have you just stuck with the dutasteride or being using minoxidil as well? Any other additions?

Im still using minoxidil occasionally, and dutasteride daily. Now approaching the end or month three. The Shed which I did experience didn't hang around for too long - I have certainly lost some thickness/coverage on the left temple, but this seems to have slowed down now.

Apart from a few new hairs sprouting randomly on temples, there is no definite sign of re-growth or re-thickenning as yet!

Top of my crown has shown progress though, as per my last memos.

I will give you all an update at the 4month mark.

Slarti - keep us informed on your progress my friend.
GAV

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hi mate, good to hear from you.

It sounds like you might get through this without too much of a shed and free of any nasty side effects, all you need is for some decent new growth to kick in and you'll be the proverbial poster boy for dutasteride.

As for me... I'm starting to feel more and more confident about regaining a decent hairline. Just this morning I was checking for progress (in a mirror held four inches from forehead type of way) and low and behold a gang of half a dozen or so tiny, barely pigmented hairs have sprung up in one of the hideous, hairless patches that dot my hairline. So now I just have to keep my fingers (hypothetically) crossed that these, plus the new growth I mentioned in my last update, develop into long, thick, brown hairs.

I've been splashing minoxidil over my head ever since I started on finasteride, which was sometime in September '01. It did give a one off boost to the thickness of some of my individual hair shafts, but it couldn't help those that had been most affected by the DHT. Anyway, I'm well past the point at which using minoxidil can provide any additional boost, now it's just a matter of maintaining whatever gains it gave to me back then - which means that any improvement now will be down to Dutasteride.

I look forward to reading increasingly optimistic updates from you, till next time

Slarti

 

[ropcat]

Slarti - I just discovered your thread over here, which seems like a more convenient place for me to post questions than the various threads over in the general forums. Great posts; it's nice to read about your progress from day one onward. I just asked in another forum whether you'd had skin problems or were worried about the presence of the 5-AR I isozyme in the myelin sheath of neural cells -- but from what I've subsequently read in this thread, you've had no skin trouble, at least. I did wonder about the lightheadedness: did you ever try taking your Dutasteride pill just before bed so as to avoid this symptom (or, at least, to be conked out when it occurred)? Finally, I've noticed a number of "Dutasteride-made-me-dumber" posts in the general forums. Would it be safe to imagine that those people were just experiencing the lightheadedness that you described? Thanks so much.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hey ropcat - thanks, it's always good to hear that my musings are of some use.

Just as well you posted your questions over here as I've been away from the forum for a couple of weeks - suffering with a nasty bout of flu - and I'm not planning on checking back through all the posts I've missed.

When the light-headedness was approaching what turned out to be its apogee it did strike me that taking dutasteride at night might be a sensible way to avoid this symptom. But, me being me, I just had to find out how the light-headedness and the (mercifully brief) spell of mild headaches would develop. Hopefully my perseverance also provided a useful chronicle of a side-effect not detailed in Glaxo's literature. It wouldn't surprise me if the "dutasteride-made-me-dumber" posters weren't in fact suffering from whatever changes induced my light-headedness; my clarity of thought was certainly affected during this time - even if it was only for a short period of the day.

Like you say; my skin hasn't been damaged one iota by the dutasteride, so that's one less thing to stress over. The presence of the 5-AR type I isozyme in the myelin sheath of neural cells is something I was, until recently, happily unaware of. Ignorance is bliss, after all. But, now that I know, it's obviously a cause for some concern, especially since I don't have the requisite medical knowledge to make an informed judgement on whether or not this makes dutasteride a dangerous proposition - particularly in the longer-term.

Lately I've been wondering if I should impose an, admittedly arbitrary, time-limit on how long to take Dutasteride; as a crude way of limiting any possible neurological damage. The question is how long?

Good luck to all my fellow sufferers,

Slarti

 

[ropcat]

The presence of the 5-AR type I isozyme in the myelin sheath of neural cells is something I was, until recently, happily unaware of. Ignorance is bliss, after all. But, now that I know, it's obviously a cause for some concern, especially since I don't have the requisite medical knowledge to make an informed judgement on whether or not this makes dutasteride a dangerous proposition - particularly in the longer-term.

Slarti - I wonder if we could find an endocrinologist to ask about this. Posts in other forums have recently discussed chemical processes that use 5AR-I in the brain. For example, Red Rose and Bismark at:

http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... c&start=20

As I commented elsewhere, it's strange that this issue wasn't considered in the clinical trials or FDA approval process. Although I'm a non-scientist, I'd expect that such research on a new drug would involve figuring out where 5AR-I is present in the body, what its functions are, and what the consequences of eliminating it could be. But there's no mention in the approval applications, to my knowledge. I've been reminded by several posters that the FDA approval process is, in many ways, broken or suspect (cf. Vioxx). But I would still like to have a chemist and an endo explain to me what types of risks there might be with use of this drug.

On another topic, have you been using generics such as Duprost or Dutas -- or just the Avodart? And did you get a prescription or find a non-prescription website for this? I'm a little concerned about starting since I could only really afford it with one of the generics. But as you may have read, there are new restrictions on Indian generics just voted into law by the Indian parliament two days ago. See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/inter ... r=homepage

I'd hate to start on Duprost and then find that that drug was withdrawn or had skyrocketed in price due to the new legislation, leaving me no choice but Avodart.

On a more positive note, I'm thrilled to hear about what sounds like great improvement on the crown for you and Raider. I'm definitely on my way to a bald spot on the vertex (despite the delaying action of Finasteride), and I'd love to close this up -- as it sounds like you have done. And the return of the waves in your hair: wow. My hair now is flat and straight, no longer wavy like it used to be. I'd love to restore some of that youthful vim and vigor to it.

Thanks again for your diligent posting over the course of your treatment!

 

[raider]

My Update - progress

Hi Slarti,

Interesting to read your updates at the end of month six. I've just passed the 4 month mark - see my comments below:

Following the last update around one month ago (at which point a few little baby hairs were present on the right side Temple only) I have seen further progress.

- A few Baby hairs have now grown on the left hand side temple. About ten of these are only a few MM long, whilst some others have progressed a little further.

- On the right side, there's now a reasonable cluster of short hairs, some of which must be nearly 1cm long now. There's about15/20 of them and whislt they're very fine and light in colour, they are reason to believe that Im progressing.

- Comments from hairdresser are "Definetly not losing any more & possibly thicker" which isn't bad at four months!

- I would also mention that I have noted a couple of new hairs immediately at the front of my hairline which is unexpected, but of course a good indicator of more to come!

- No further shedding experienced. I did have some around the two month mark..

Hope everyone is well.

Ps. best conditioner I have found is egg white - give it a try....

Raider.

 

[raider]

Norwood

Ps. I would say that Im a Norwood 3 at this stage - I have been all along but can now see potentially that I could progress to a 2 if things continue as they have been in the last 6 weeks.... I will keep you all Informed!
Gavin