So, I Have Just Popped My First Loniten Pill

[AnxiousAndy]

minoxidil will not cause hair loss, its a hypertensive, it has no correlation to androgens. Your shedding is because you quit finasteride, DHT is no longer being inhibited and therefore the surmountable effect of finasteride is gone, allowing DHT to go back to giving a 100% response, damaged the hair. Why did you stop finasteride, there is no way minoxidil alone will maintain your hair.

Not permanent hair loss but minor does cause shedding initially. I'm not saying it's the minoxidil causing it, I'm saying I think the pills I have are bunk. I stopped finasteride as I was losing hair the whole year I was on it, and I'm sure the status quo on here is if you are still balding after a year of finasteride then you are a non responder. And yes I know the technical stuff concerning finasteride but for me it really did make things worse, I posted pics on here months ago showing what it done, and it only got worse from there. I never had a shed when I started finasteride so I can't see why it's causing the shedding now. On a lighter note, I did read on HLH that taking minoxidil more than 2x a day is better so I think after new year I'm gonna take 5mg 3x a day and see if that helps. Yea I don't expect minoxidil to maintain my hair forever, just until something better comes out.

@bridgeburn how long have you been on it? I seem to be losing the hair on my hands that minoxidil initially brought me so I'm a bit concerned, I do hope this is just follicle synchronisation and I will bounce back. The highest oral minoxidil dosage I'm willing to do is 20mg daily but I hope 15mg will do the trick. My one piece of mind in this situation is ironically that I'm not on finasteride right now.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I totally agree that if you stop minoxidil (or take bunk ones) the hair you gained will be lost. I would know, I regained my crown only to stop minoxidil, losing it all again. My point was that there is no way minoxidil can make hairloss actively worse, it can do nothing, but it cant cause hairloss.

Also studies show unfortunately 15mg doesn't show too much of a difference than 10mg, post results if you see a greater response to it, if you do I'm popping 10 of those suckers a day I swear

Yea I get minoxidil won't make things worse, I was meaning the gains I was getting are regressing, I mean I'm still above baseline(when I started minoxidil) so that's something. How is your crown just now?
I don't expect upping the dose to work miracles but surely 3x a day is better than 2x considering the 4 hour half life of minoxidil. Also, which study was this? There are very few I've seen using oral minoxidil for hair loss.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I completely regained it again after losing it but I'm going through a shedding phase so its a bit crap at the moment. Cant wait to start oral minoxidil though, no longer would I need to apply the damn foam all the time.

I cant remember exactly where I saw it, I may have seen it as a comment on this forum, given how much people seem to be against oral minoxidil I wouldn't be surprised if it was anti-oral propaganda tho.

That's good to hear Geez I hope it's just a shed I'm going through, it's not BAD but it's a big jump from losing almost no hairs at all. From my initial experience oral minoxidil will serve you well, my hair overall is still thicker so I'm hoping it stays that way and eventually improves lol. I presume you've shed a few times from minoxidil and it has always grown back?
Yea there is a lot of naysayers about oral minoxidil. They are missing out lol the convenience is great!!

 

[bridgeburn]

@bridgeburn how long have you been on it? I seem to be losing the hair on my hands that minoxidil initially brought me so I'm a bit concerned, I do hope this is just follicle synchronisation and I will bounce back. The highest oral minoxidil dosage I'm willing to do is 20mg daily but I hope 15mg will do the trick. My one piece of mind in this situation is ironically that I'm not on finasteride right now.

I started at around November 12. but i still had some liquid minoxidil leftover, so i alternated taking 10mg oral and the topical every other day until i ran out of liquid and then just used 10mg a day. i dont remember when i ran out of liquid, maybe a few weeks ago. but have noticed increased face hair.

Is 20mg safe? damn. it may not necessarily be better with a higher amount since the effectiveness depends on your sulfotransferase levels, which is different for everyone. but maybe because of what you said about the half life, dunno.

maybe you are shedding from switching brands?
I know you don't believe it, but finasteride could have been doing something. its very possible to continue losing hair with finasteride since it removes 70% of DHT, but there is still 30% of DHT left to worry about, plus testosterone too if you are sensitive enough.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I started at around November 12. but i still had some liquid minoxidil leftover, so i alternated taking 10mg oral and the topical every other day until i ran out of liquid and then just used 10mg a day. i dont remember when i ran out of liquid, maybe a few weeks ago. but have noticed increased face hair.

Is 20mg safe? damn. it may not necessarily be better with a higher amount since the effectiveness depends on your sulfotransferase levels, which is different for everyone. but maybe because of what you said about the half life, dunno.

maybe you are shedding from switching brands?
I know you don't believe it, but finasteride could have been doing something. its very possible to continue losing hair with finasteride since it removes 70% of DHT, but there is still 30% of DHT left to worry about, plus testosterone too if you are sensitive enough.

It could be because of the brand change, I'm not saying the minox10 is fake, but right now I'm thinking it could be. Is anyone able to test the pills?
Yea I know finasteride can be like that, if I lost my hair at the same rate I wouldn't be so bias against finasteride but I lost hair faster the entire time I was on it. I am positive that was the case unfortunately. I will stick to what I said and wait til new years and if I'm still shedding I'm upping the ante a bit to see if that helps.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

This is my first shed after 2 years on finasteride+minoxidil (excluding the time when I stopped minoxidil), its quite bad, it stopped now but I started a new more aggressive regime so that may have had something to do with it. To be honest I don't even care about oral being more or less effective than topical (I'm more of an anti-androgen guy) the important think is that i don't have to wake up an hour early for school and my hair will no loner look like a frizzy mess

I personally prefer anti-androgens too, but it's a damn shame none of the ones I've tried have worked! tried finasteride and oral spironolactone.. That sh*t gave me a shed from hell for months! School? How old are you dude? You must be quite young and have more experience with these chemicals than I do lol.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I am 19 years old, I hate testosterone so I have no problem in nuking it, including the sides I am having with dutasteride+200mg spironolactone.

What dosage of spironolactone were you on and how long were you on the treatment? Given that spironolactone decreases serum T quite siginificantly its amazing you didn't respond to it. If youre really desperate try 50/100mg cyprotone acetate, if that somehow fails too (I'd be amazed) add Estradiol or Diane 35, there is no way in hell you will continue balding after that.

Isn't Cyprotone a steroidal anti androgen? I'm willing to try just about anything within my budget honestly haha. I do need something to replace finasteride and I'm scared to try dutasteride incase it fucks up my hairline badly.
I was on 150mg daily. I was on it for about 6 months. Thinned out my hair but my skin was flawless.

 

[bridgeburn]

It could be because of the brand change, I'm not saying the minox10 is fake, but right now I'm thinking it could be. Is anyone able to test the pills?
Yea I know finasteride can be like that, if I lost my hair at the same rate I wouldn't be so bias against finasteride but I lost hair faster the entire time I was on it. I am positive that was the case unfortunately. I will stick to what I said and wait til new years and if I'm still shedding I'm upping the ante a bit to see if that helps.

I know that i am on a hardcore regimen so I may not be ideal person to report I haven't lost ground since using minox10, I recently popped Diane 35 for a couple weeks and saw a boost in improvement after that. However, I do still have hair growing on places on my face like the cheeks and I'm pretty sure cheek hair is not helped by anti androgens or estrogens, so i believe that the pills are legit.

with finasteride, i think its possible that although it reduces DHT, maybe your body fought back by upregulating its receptors to become more sensitive to lower levels of androgens. If this is the case than both starting finasteride and stopping finasteride can cause a shed. if your body is more sensitive to androgens now and you suddenly stop finasteride then your DHT will go up and you'll still be more sensitive now than you were before finasteride at least until your receptors readjust themselves, IF they even do that.

Unfortunately, I think the only way to fight back is to jump to strong enough meds to overpower it. like if finasteride makes worse go to dutasteride, then if dutasteride stops working add spironolactone, if that stops working increase spironolactone dose, if that stops working go to cypro. I cant really recommend of course because of sides... maybe try the Topical Daro route, ive been hearing good things about it. it will block the receptor but not cross blood brain barrier so shouldn't reduce your T. but its being experimented right now

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I know that i am on a hardcore regimen so I may not be ideal person to report I haven't lost ground since using minox10, I recently popped Diane 35 for a couple weeks and saw a boost in improvement after that. However, I do still have hair growing on places on my face like the cheeks and I'm pretty sure cheek hair is not helped by anti androgens or estrogens, so i believe that the pills are legit.

with finasteride, i think its possible that although it reduces DHT, maybe your body fought back by upregulating its receptors to become more sensitive to lower levels of androgens. If this is the case than both starting finasteride and stopping finasteride can cause a shed. if your body is more sensitive to androgens now and you suddenly stop finasteride then your DHT will go up and you'll still be more sensitive now than you were before finasteride at least until your receptors readjust themselves, IF they even do that.

Unfortunately, I think the only way to fight back is to jump to strong enough meds to overpower it. like if finasteride makes worse go to dutasteride, then if dutasteride stops working add spironolactone, if that stops working increase spironolactone dose, if that stops working go to cypro. I cant really recommend of course because of sides... maybe try the Topical Daro route, ive been hearing good things about it. it will block the receptor but not cross blood brain barrier so shouldn't reduce your T. but its being experimented right now

Thanks for the thorough reply!
I'm tempted to try cyproterone but if stopped won't that cause most, if not all of my hair to fall out? How do you go about buying topical estradiol? I'm in desperate need of an anti androgen that will work for me lol.

 

[bridgeburn]

Thanks for the thorough reply!
I'm tempted to try cyproterone but if stopped won't that cause most, if not all of my hair to fall out? How do you go about buying topical estradiol? I'm in desperate need of an anti androgen that will work for me lol.

well thats why you don't suddenly stop, cypro does have some build up effect though. and its a hardcore T bomb used for chemical castration so should be pretty effective, lol. I have stopped cypro for about 2 months now but I increased estrogen dose. im sure my T is still tanked and is kept suppressed by E. inhouse sells estrogel, so does thailand pharmacy, and its european brand. I usually order from a local site for the country i live in.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

well thats why you don't suddenly stop, cypro does have some build up effect though. and its a hardcore T bomb used for chemical castration so should be pretty effective, lol. I have stopped cypro for about 2 months now but I increased estrogen dose. im sure my T is still tanked and is kept suppressed by E. inhouse sells estrogel, so does thailand pharmacy, and its european brand. I usually order from a local site for the country i live in.

Do you think 25mg of cypro 4 times a week would be enough? I may add in the E gel if I can afford it. Reading through old hair loss sites about using cypro ( in particularly Secrethero89) it seems he thinned out badly on it, I'm not sure whether to believe him or not because his pic is thick NW1.. He then came to the conclusion since nothing worked for him he must have some auto immune disease Are you the guy in your picture?
There is so much doubt in my mind right now about androgenic alopecia. Maybe it's all a huge conspiracy and everyone claiming to be on anti androgen with success is trying to sell me to big pharma.. Not really haha but for some I can't understand with literally no T and DHT how they can continue to bald.
My plan of action is this, stick with minoxidil no matter what because I did see some results and gradually increase my dose. Then at month 6 - 8 if things don't look up i will jump on the hardcore anti androgens and stand with you guys as eventual thick NW1's
Hey @bridgeburn I have asked this before but I forgot, and what Norwood are you?
Also, have you noticed any gyno?

 

[bridgeburn]

Do you think 25mg of cypro 4 times a week would be enough?

I think for most theres a great chance it will be enough. probably alone it wouldn't have been enough for me since my temples were dead for nearly a decade. most people seem to have worse sides with it than me in functioning sexually.

Reading through old hair loss sites about using cypro ( in particularly Secrethero89) it seems he thinned out badly on it, I'm not sure whether to believe him or not because his pic is thick NW1.. He then came to the conclusion since nothing worked for him he must have some auto immune disease

well, geez ive never heard of this, but from what my own experience and from what ive seen in others, it shouldn't hurt your hair.

Are you the guy in your picture?

yes

Maybe it's all a huge conspiracy and everyone claiming to be on anti androgen with success is trying to sell me to big pharma.. Not really haha but for some I can't understand with literally no T and DHT how they can continue to bald.

Bwahahahahaaha!! when you were recommending oral minoxidil so much on this website, I thought maybe you worked for thailand pharmacy.

sensitivity to androgens varies with individual and also increases with age though. and maybe with finasteride?

Hey @bridgeburn I have asked this before but I forgot, and what Norwood are you?
Also, have you noticed any gyno?

im not the best norwood judge but before i was at least norwood 3, maybe worse 3.5? with diffuse thinning pretty much all over the top. Its hard to say what norwood exactly now, the top has totally thickened all the way to norwood 3, fuzzies in the Norwood 2 area are getting cosmetically significant, while in the Norwood 1 area can be seen closely under the right light. and recently I am seeing tiny hairs appearing on the forehead below Norwood 0.

of course, gyno is getting pretty intense. I look fine in regular clothes but would probably look strange at a waterpark with my shirt off.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I think for most theres a great chance it will be enough. probably alone it wouldn't have been enough for me since my temples were dead for nearly a decade. most people seem to have worse sides with it than me in functioning sexually.

well, geez ive never heard of this, but from what my own experience and from what ive seen in others, it shouldn't hurt your hair.


yes


Bwahahahahaaha!! when you were recommending oral minoxidil so much on this website, I thought maybe you worked for thailand pharmacy.

sensitivity to androgens varies with individual and also increases with age though. and maybe with finasteride?



im not the best norwood judge but before i was at least norwood 3, maybe worse 3.5? with diffuse thinning pretty much all over the top. Its hard to say what norwood exactly now, the top has totally thickened all the way to norwood 3, fuzzies in the Norwood 2 area are getting cosmetically significant, while in the Norwood 1 area can be seen closely under the right light. and recently I am seeing tiny hairs appearing on the forehead below Norwood 0.

of course, gyno is getting pretty intense. I look fine in regular clothes but would probably look strange at a waterpark with my shirt off.

Thanks for the info haha! Have you thought about getting your glands completely removed then you would not have that problem
Also, I I finally received a reply from Thailand pharmacy addressing the issue and this is what they said.

Dear Andrew,

first of all please take our appologize for any inconvenience caused and for slight delay with our reply due to the Christmas holidays.

Regarding to your concern, the manufacturer New Life Pharma Co. Ltd. who is manufacturer of Loxidil Forte 10 mg started to have capacity problems with their production in October 2017 and since then they are not able to satisfy the local demand for Loxidil 5 mg and Loxidil Forte 10 mg. Once our stock of Loxidil was completely shipped out and New Life Pharma was not able to deliver any of new stock, we had to fullfill the big demand of our customers for Minoxidil pills accordingly. Therefore we have decided to ship product PIP minoxidil 5 and PIP minoxidil 10 instead to satisfy the orders of our customers.

PIP minoxidil 5 and PIP minoxidil 10 is manufactured by also well established manufacturer President Inter Pharma Co. Ltd. (PIP) and is fully registered, tested and approved by Thai FDA same as Loxidil brand. Its registration No. is 1A 246/52. minoxidil is normaly sold in pharmacies all over Thailand and is second most used Minoxidil medicine available.

Since we are shipping PIP minoxidil in October we have added and important notice to product page of Loxidil 5 mg and Loxidil Forte 10 mg to inform our customers that they will receive different brand instead of Loxidil which reads as follows:

QUOTE

IMPORTANT INFORMATION: Due to the capacity problems of manufacturer New Life Pharma Co. Ltd. and consequent shortage of Loxidil, we ship PIP minoxidil 10 (Minoxidil 10 mg) from manufacturer President Inter Pharma Co. Ltd. (PIP) instead to fullfill the high demand of our customers. PIP minoxidil 10 contains the same active ingredient Minoxidil 10 mg and is fully equal alternative to Loxidil Forte 10 mg.

UNQUOTE

PIP minoxidil is deffinitely not fake medicine or any medicine of a bad quality. PIP minoxidil has to be produced according to the very strict pharmaceutical standards and must contain the declared amount of the active ingredient as it is fully registered and approved by respective regulatory body of Thailand which is Thai Food and Drugs Administration - Thai FDA. Thai FDA does not allow any of fake or low qualiti medical products on the market.

PIP minoxidil we have in our stock is delivered to us via the official distribution network and untill now we did not have any complaints whatsoever. We ship approx. 300 boxes of Minoxidil products on a monthly basis and if the minoxidil would be problematic product we would have receive a great amount of complaints untill now as it is already 3rd month we ship minoxidil as substitute for Loxidil.

In the meantime we have asked 2 other regular customers if they have got any problems with minoxidil. These customers have answered that they are satisfied with the product as they were with Loxidil.

Therefore we are confused why would you personaly have a problem with minoxidil and how did you come to a conclusion that it has no effect and is possibly fake.

We ship only approved and registered original products and we never ship any low quality or generic products unless specificaly mentioned.

We would love to continue to ship out Loxidil products made by New Life Pharma, however as they are not able to supply Loxidil to anybody at the moment, we are also not able to ship it to our customers.

We hope that all above mentioned serves you well and if you have any further questions or comments please feel free to contact us anytime again.

Best regards

Sasima Duangpan


With their informative post and good customer service and your testimonial to Minox10 I am now led to believe that the pills are legit and the reason I'm shedding is either from switching brands or dropping finasteride. So to anyone who got Minox10 I would rest easy, they are most likely the real deal!!
I'm still not getting back on finasteride yet.. Unless my hairline goes to suit that is... But my hair is still decent so I hope it stays that way.

 

[ohmanohno]

Thanks for looking into this Andy

 

[bridgeburn]

Have you thought about getting your glands completely removed then you would not have that problem

lol, knowing that the surgery exist is one reason I was brave enough to start this... but I hope they dont get big enough that its necessary in order to hide.

Also, I I finally received a reply from Thailand pharmacy addressing the issue and this is what they said.

they sound like pretty cool people.
Thailand is like a first world and third world country mixed together, i generally trust its products

 

[AllerganSaveUs]

Andy, switching brands seems to often cause people problems with any hair loss product, topical minoxidil, oral finasteride, etc. Once they switch, they lose some hair. I don't know how true it is or how often it occurs, but I see it often.

 

[Mab]

That's incredible! I've been debating switching to loniten over topical but there is a history of heart problems in my family. My maternal grandfather died at 43 from cardiac arrest. If I'm already on topical, is it really that much more dangerous to take loniten?

oh sh*t man i dunno. It is prob dangerous, i just dont care. I have bad gender dysphoria and my hairloss is a big source of it. I'd basically rather die than not improve it anyways so it doesn't matter to me.

I dunno how worth it, it would be for you to do it. Not saying you want it less, but it is prob more risky with the family history. Its a decision you have to make. Maybe try it and drop it fast if you get sides?

 

[Mab]

lol, knowing that the surgery exist is one reason I was brave enough to start this... but I hope they dont get big enough that its necessary in order to hide.


they sound like pretty cool people.
Thailand is like a first world and third world country mixed together, i generally trust its products

You can just wear a sports bra and loose shirts, thats what I do when I have to be in "boymode" like when im in my uniform.

Anyway the big problem you two are gonna run into on that much spironolactone or even a bit of cypro is that with nuked test you have no primary sex hormone. It is half of the transgender HRT regimen. You have to have test or Estrogen or you will go through menopause like an old lady and likely develop osteoporosis.

May as well go full HRT take estrogen and remove the breasts. There are other effects you prob wont like, but the breasts are the major one.

 

[bridgeburn]

You can just wear a sports bra and loose shirts, thats what I do when I have to be in "boymode" like when im in my uniform.

Anyway the big problem you two are gonna run into on that much spironolactone or even a bit of cypro is that with nuked test you have no primary sex hormone. It is half of the transgender HRT regimen. You have to have test or Estrogen or you will go through menopause like an old lady and likely develop osteoporosis.

May as well go full HRT take estrogen and remove the breasts. There are other effects you prob wont like, but the breasts are the major one.

I am taking Estrogen, I stopped taking antiandrogens but the E seems to be still keeping my T down. the other effects are fine I just don't want boobs to become the size of basketballs.

 

[whatevr]

I am taking Estrogen, I stopped taking antiandrogens but the E seems to be still keeping my T down. the other effects are fine I just don't want boobs to become the size of basketballs.

Gyno is the side effect of estrogen that you're gonna feel short term. But the one you won't is far worse.
E2 took half an inch off my dick and ruined my penis sensitivity. I'm about at the point where I want to apply topical DHT gel in the hopes of bringing it back to normal. I didn't think I was doing any damage because I didn't feel anything down there. But stay on Estrogen (even low dose) for many months, and the damage accumulates.

Finasteride started the gyno (and probably didn't do my dick any favors either), but then due to the sides and having lost a lot of hair I went on RU and topical E2. I didn't have very many apparent sides, but over time, things down there just aren't what they used to be....

Be careful.