So look ok, WHAT changes as we age to trigger hair loss?

[Bryan]

well, what's the alternative? Maybe I was too specific - I'm wondering what changes surrounding the follicle to result in killing it when it comes into contact with DHT.

Amazingly, you went too far to the extreme at BOTH ends: it's not something inside the androgen receptor which determines the effect androgens have on the cell, and neither is it something "surrounding the follicle" which does that. It's the structure of the CELL ITSELF which does that! :smack: Something about the fundamental design of the hair follicle cell determines how it reacts to androgens.

 

[Bryan]

It's the structure of the CELL ITSELF which does that! Something about the fundamental design of the hair follicle cell determines how it reacts to androgens.

Can you please elaborate ? It sounds interesting but your sentence confuses me a little bit. Dermall papilla cells from balding scalps have more high-affinity ARs than DP cells from non-balding scalps and probably differ in the number and affinity of various components such as co-factors. Were you talking about these differences ?

No I wasn't. I wasn't just talking about various factors which can alter the degree or the intensity of the androgenic stimulus (things like the number of androgen receptors, the levels of various steroidogenic enzymes like 5a-reductase and steroid sulfatase, etc.), I was talking about the deeper design of the cell, which determines whether androgens actually stimulate or suppress the growth of the rest of the follicle (like in body hair versus scalp hair, for example).

 

[Hoppi]

Yeah it would be very useful to understand exactly what changes.

The reason I suspected the receptors themselves is because it seems very coincidental that the prostate size and male pattern baldness degree progress to precisely the same degrees, to the point that you can correlate the two quite accurately. This to me suggests that they are involved in the same mechanism. I know many things change with age but.. this is a particularly strong connection.

At the moment I am still swaying towards the estradiol-mediated upregulation of androgen receptors throughout the body theory, as it ties everything together so well. It could be wrong though, so I will keep researching

If there's one thing that many of the alternative male pattern baldness-theorizing crowd (most of whom have had success) agree on, it's the role of estrogen.

 

[Bryan]

If there's one thing that many of the alternative male pattern baldness-theorizing crowd (most of whom have had success) agree on, it's the role of estrogen.

Yeah, they probably also agree with the idea that UFOs are abducting humans, and experimenting on them with a*** probes.

 

[Hoppi]

If it's accepted that estrogen is involved with prostate size, and prostate size correlates with male pattern baldness severity, then why is the most logical conclusion so ridiculous?

 

[Bryan]

I've already commented on both of those subjects. I'm not going to keep repeating myself over and over.

 

[Hoppi]

It's ok, I'll give it all a go anyway and see if it works

I'll report back in a couple of weeks lol