So many guys saying...

[Guest]

"I had to stop Propecia due to sides."

and some of you guys still believe only 2% get sides... come on..

I just entered like 20 dif. threads today and i saw at least 10 guys saying they stopped due to sides..

 

[joeylloyd]

You can't say that is a representative sample. Its common that people come forward when they have something to complain about but not when they are happy with a product.

 

[Deaner]

And you're naive enough to think that every guy on earth who takes Propecia posts here and posts their story about how they didn't get sides? C'mon man, think a little deeper, gourmetstylewellness.com.com discussion boards aren't a representation of the entire population of Propecia users.

I suppose since you entered 20 threads and 10 of them had guys complaining about sides there must be a 50% incidence of side effects? If you weren't having ANY problems with hairloss and Propecia did exactly what you wanted and you got no side effects, you wouldn't be here, guaranteed. People post more often because they need help than to say they're doing just fine.

Stop making joke threads and think a little bit more.

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

No one address's the central issue, the 2% number. People who get sides are always preaching that the number is way too low and people who don't get sides think that it is totally accurate and all the other people are just inventing the side effects. There is so much bias and useless talk on this issue.
Look if you think that only 1 out of 50 men who use finasteride (as directed) experience ANY AMOUNT of labido change, semen volume change or erection quality, I think you are totally insane. 2% is a tiny amount of people. I believe the number is certainly more then 2% but not too much more. I also think finasteride is highly effective with very little risk of long term side effects. Therefore, even those who suffer sides should stay on the drug, but just adjust dosage.
Why can't there ever be an intelligent discussion on side effects on this site without it turning ugly?

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

Deaner,
The original poster did not mention anything about 50% getting sides, you did. He simply chalanged the 2% number and you then put words in his mouth instead of addressing his question.
Again, people need to comprehend how small a percentage 2%. Even adjusting for the debatable points that 1.) many come to a website to complain and not praise and 2.) people are crazy and invent problems, it still appears that far too many people are bitching about side effects for only the tiny percentage (2%) actually getting real sides. It seems obvious to me. Accepting that some of these people are experiencing a placebo effect, the mere fact that this issue comes up about everyday indicates that the problems simply must be larger then just 2%.

 

[Axon]

Funkster.

 

[VWdude]

not me.

 

[ShedMaster]

In the words of Radio (former poster here who happened to be blatantly gay)


Hairloss forums are full of people with problems, that is the function of a haiross forum, you should not take the temperature of a nation in a hospital.

People come here to discuss and hopefully resolve their problems. So, don't expect too many posts along the lines of "Hey, how are you doing! I have been using Propecia for 18 months and am not getting any side effects, thank you for taking the time to read my post"

 

[SkipTracer]

Hey, how are you all doing!

I have been using Propecia for 18 months and am not getting any side effects at all.

I have a date tonight, but I'll be back online again tomorrow to talk with you guys more!

Thanks for reading my post!

 

[ShedMaster]

Hey, how are you all doing!

I have been using Propecia for 18 months and am not getting any side effects at all.

I have a date tonight, but I'll be back online again tomorrow to talk with you guys more!

Thanks for reading my post!

LOL!

 

[Guest]

hehe, some guys are really funny, like Deaner :lol:

Well, if I see at least 10 guys complaining about sides in the first 20-30 threads in the main forum, then I would expect at least to see

2% --------------> 10 guys

100 % -----------> x guys --> (100x10) / 2 = 500 guys - 10 guys = 490 wich are the 98% that don't get sides


yes, to see 490 guys in the main forum saying they are on propecia and are not getting sides.. Guess what? I only saw about 4-5 guys saying that..

What a difference! Don't you think so?

 

[Back In Time]

Why would people post to state they arn't having sides?

On a forum about hairloss, you are going to get just about everyone with sides posting about it. People without em arn't going to post about it much, same way people that have good results stop posting much.

Let's say for example I have a guy put a new roof on my house. It's like me calling up the roofer every morning to tell him the roof isn't leaking, it just isn't gonna happen. You can bet that when the roof leaks though, I'm going to talk about it.

When I honestly look at it, this is how I see it:

First of all, I think it's safe to say that the majority of Propecia users don't post on forums about it. Second I think that when people *do* have sides from Propecia, they are more apt to hop on the internet and find a forum and talk about it, to perhaps look for answers, seek other options, etc. Third, I think there is some truth to the thought that if you tell people a drug can have sides (in a small percentage of people), some percentage of people taking that drug will imagine they have sides when they don't, or attribute the same effects to the drug when they may be from something else entirely. Remember, the placebo effect exists, and there are such things as hypochondriacs, and people that take all sorts of other medications/do other activities that may be effecting them. Fourth, I think if it were indeed true that far more than 2% of peope have sides, (and the sides are as horrible as some people claim) there would already be a class action lawsuit over this, as it is an FDA approved drug, and it didn't just get approved yesterday.

I'm not saying that people here are making up side effects. I know they are possible, and they can and do happen to people. I'm just saying I don't have too much trouble understanding how this FDA tested and approved product has 2% actual side effects.

(No I have not had any sides on Fincar, and yes it is working for me.)

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

People due come to a hairloss forum to complain and people due experience placebo effects, this is well established. I also never real bought the idea that people with positive reults just run off in the sunset. The most experienced posters on this site almost all have had good to great results with no sides. Maybe there are more complainers here, but there are plenty of people who hang around and update their positive results.
We have is the Merck study and a gauge of what users have to say on forums like these. Clearly more then 2% of the users on this website are having sides (lets just say its 10% for this argument) and clearly forums such as these are not a direct representation of the correct percentage, meaning you cannot extrapolate the results form members of this forum to the general finasteride users across the world. Therefore, you have to turn on your internal filter and decide whether factors such as the placebo effect and angry dudes who join because they cannot get a hard on, make up the difference between the 10% and 2% numbers.
My contention is that far more then 2% experience sides on this drug (and during the Merck) studies, however, the sides are minimal and go away quickly so people either miss them or ignore them (especially if they are getting results). I also want to make it clear that, in my opinion, adjusting dose and just waiting them out, make these sides go away. finasteride is by far the best male pattern baldness treatment available and my point of contention is not to attack the drug, I just want honesty. I believe that the 2% number is more indicative of those who have more cronic sides in which the drug makes them impotent or they have nut pain or decreased labido for weeks at a time or for the entire time they are on the drug. If someone in the Merck study had a labido drop that went away after a few days, it is at least possible that when they sat down a few weeks later to go over their results, they never reported that slight labido drop. Just a thought.
I would only finish with the one comment for those who do not get any sides and hate it when people, like me, bring up the subject. The sides are real and many many people are really experiencing them. I consider myself very rational and extremely healthy and I have been on finasteride for about a year and have had about 4-5 stretches (which last about a week) in which my labido almost disappeared and my johnson was not performing up to snuff. This is coming from someone who, in one way or another, has successfully shot a load almost everyday of my adult life (I am 26). I also think finasteride works as I have dropped my dose a bit and so far so good. If you knew what it felt like to be staring at Mr. Johnson and have him not respond, I think you would all understand (not to mention my nuts shrank and hurt at times) how scary it can be. If I had those side effects everyday for the past year, then I would have 100% quit finasteride and shaved my head.
One thing that also seems to help is that I no longer take my finasteride in the morning on an empty stomach, just a thought. Good luck to all.

 

[Back In Time]

Thank you for the well thought out and rational post.

I would agree with you for the most part with your post above. I would probably disagree a bit with your line of thinking when it comes to minimal sides going unreported by folks in the Merck study, but even that I don't see as too wild of an idea, it could happen.

I just wanted to add, I have no problem with people reporting sides, or talking about them. I think everyone should weigh the risks of taking what is a drug. The only time I get a bit perturbed is when I see someone post that they are thinking of trying Propecia, then I see a reply like:

"Dude, if you take Propecia you will get depressed, you will grow boobs, get zits, won't be able to get it up...(etc)...so if that's what you want then take Propecia."

I have seen that type of post more than once, and usually in a thread where someone is asking what they should try to combat hairloss. Obviously if everyone had those types of side effects no one would use the drug. To someone who isn't sure what to try it is nothing more than a scare tactic and hardly indicative of the results of a large scale study, and countless users of the drug that have had good results.

It's obvious to some that the posts in a forum do not accurately express the average results of a drug, but to many the posts are taken as testing results, when they are clearly skewed by people with negative results posting in the majority (for reasons I listed in an above post). Just because many people with positive results don't post doesn't mean they don't exist.

That all being said, I don't work for anyone connected with Propecia (I actually take generic Proscar, 1.25mg per day), and I hope everyone uses what works for them! It's a tough thing we are all going through, and everyone's bodies are different. If something doesn't work for you or gives you some sides, it doesn't mean the drug may not work or it's a lousy drug, it just doesn't work for you. Move on to something else, but don't begrime the product or the folks that it worked for.

(Not intended to point at you there Johnny24601, just a general statement.)

 

[Hawaii male]

been using propecia for 3 months... Nut ache for 2 months...

Now NO SIDES!

 

[Johnny24601]

re:

Even as someone who has experienced at least minimal sides, I cannot stand it when people come on here and just attack finasteride simply because they feel like they have experienced sides. It is even worse when people start to blame every problem they have (depression, focus issues and self esteem problems etc.) on finasteride. This is just the reality of internet forums. Anyone is free to join and therefor you are bound to have many idiots. This is why it is so important for people to find the truth (as they see it) for themselves.
Though I hate to have to always confront people who make comments like "Dude, if you take Propecia you will get depressed, you will grow boobs, get zits, won't be able to get it up...(etc)...so if that's what you want then take Propecia." , it is very important. If someone does not engage a person who makes these sweeping generalizations, then some poor 22 year old who is losing his hair may read an idiots comments, avoid finasteride (because of rumored sides) and then thie kid will go bald and unfortunately male pattern baldness can be vey tough on men, especially young men. This does not mean that side effects are legit for many, but as I have said, sides are normally minimal, short lived and tolerable.

 

[Deaner]

Johnny, I never claimed that's exactly what he said, it was more a sarcastic rhetorical question than anything. It was one of those "well smarty pants if it's not 2% what is it?" He seems to think that because 10 in 20 people on a message board are talking about sides, it must be higher than 2%, and if he's using the message board as an indication of the percentage of side effects incidents then is he taking it as fact and believing that 50% of people are having them instead of 2? Like I said, purely a sarcastic and rhetorical question.

 

[Deaner]

And how many times are we going to have to explain the same theory that's been discussed a billion times about people who are having great success not posting. The analogy of the leaking roof is dead on in my opinion. Just because there are "plenty" of people on this board who still post their success stories, there are a relatively larger number of people who complain, thus giving a skewed view of the percentage of people experience these side effects. Bottom line is you don't come to a help board in search of information and discussion if all your problems with this situation are sorted out.

Those of us on this board without side effects are posting simply because we still have ground to be covered in terms of battling hairloss, we still have a reason to be here. If I went back to NW1 with no side effects, I sure as sh*t wouldn't be wasting my time posting on a message board, I'd be out letting everyone touch my hair.

 

[Pob]

Like most people here, I'm not a scientist, but I have tried to objectively assess my own hair loss and the progress of my treatment. I would like to think my posts reflect that.

I think we have a responsibility to people who are new to this forum to be calm, objective, polite and helpful. Many of the people in this forum have helped me immensely, and I'd like to be able to pass this on to other newbies.

Hair loss is an emotional subject for all of us and it's easy to be irrational at times. We are not objective in those moments, and only this week I have seen a post from someone who feels so bad about their hair that they want to commit suicide, and then a few days later post that they are having incredible results. There's also a natural tendency to blame everything you are experiencing on finasteride, when there's not necessary a connection. Certainly in the case of sexual desire, that's a very subjective judgement to call. Additionally, the placebo effect is well documented, and if you think something will happen, that increases the chance that it will.

Although I'm not always convinced of the integrity of drug companies, I believe the incidence of side effects noted in the FDA trials for Propecia are likely to be nearer to the truth than simply counting up the number of people experiencing sides on this forum.

Whether it's 2% or 50%, the bottom line is side effects go away very quickly once you have ceased taking the drug.

Good luck to all of you.

 

[jayC99]

Everyone that I know personally has had sexual sides from propecia.